This is topic Just out of curiosity... in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by cvgurau (Member # 1345) on :
 
What's the plural for of "shaman"? I know it's not "Shamen", is it?

The question just came to me a moment ago, and I can't stop agonizing over it.
 


Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :
 
Shamans.

Definitely.

And I'm reminded of "Mystery Men" when Greg Kinnear is asking what the plural is for "nemesis."
 


Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
 
And just out of curiosity what is the plural of "nemesis"?
 
Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :
 

nemeses

Susan
 


Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :
 
And Kleenex?
 
Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :
 
Still Kleenex, since it's brand name.

Though, a good name for some alien might be Kleenexus.
 


Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
 
No, the Kleenexus is the source of all Kleenex.
 
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
Unless you want generic aliens or tissue source, which would be Tissuexus. The pronunciation is tricky, but alien vocal organs have no problem with it.
 
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
And the plurals for those are Kleenexi and Tissuexi.
 
Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
 
So if a guy pulled up to an intersection in a lexus, then found that the woman next to him was also driving one, would they be a Lexicon?
 
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
Only if they minded their p's and q's.
 
Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :
 
'cause if they didn't they might end up as a Sexicon.
 
Posted by cvgurau (Member # 1345) on :
 
I can't tell if you people are joking or not. This really, really frightens me.

Back on topic (sort of) which is the correct statement: a unique, or an unique?

I think it's a unique, but I'd rather be certain than kind of sure.
 


Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :
 
"a unique" would be the proper usage.

"He wrote with a unique style." Of course, this would sound better if it were written as: "His style of writing was unique."

It has to do with how the word sounds when deciding whether or not to put "an" or "a" in front of it. It is hard or soft? (There are some exceptions, but few.)

For example. "He wrote an 'H' on his paper."

When you write out the letter phonetically, it is spelled: AITCH (useful scrabble knowledge here). It's starting syllable is soft. Whereas, "unique" has that "Y" sound at the start.
 


Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
quote:
"He wrote with a unique style." Of course, this would sound better if it were written as: "His style of writing was unique."

I'd go with the first and avoid the 'was' if at all possible. '[W]rote' is a stronger verb.


 


Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :
 
quote:
It has to do with how the word sounds when deciding whether or not to put "an" or "a" in front of it. It is hard or soft? (There are some exceptions, but few.)

I've noticed a lot of people always write "an" before words beginning which "h". E.g. "I have a friend who is an historian." Interestingly enough, they never say it that way. Every reference book I've found says this is wrong, although I recall being taught to do it that way at school...
 


Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
I believe the difference isn't "hard" versus "soft" but consonant sound versus vowel sound.

Unique is pronounced with a long U, which is pronounced "you" (consonant sound), hence the article "a" instead of "an" before it.

(I can remember trying to decide whether to go to my daughter's elementary teacher and correct her after my daughter came home with a "long vowel sounds" assignment that taught her to include words with the "oo" sound in the "u" list with those that had the "you" sound. While "oo" is a "long" sound--as in food--and there is a "short" "oo" sound--as in foot--"oo" is not the sound the letter "u" makes when it is saying its own name. I didn't go see the teacher because it is probably not that big of a deal, but it still bothered me.) (Did any of that make sense?)

Using "an" before words starting with "h" is, I believe, somewhat archaic. My guess is that the "h" used to not be pronounced as it is now, and so the words started with a vowel sound.

Usage and pronunciation changes over time. Maybe eventually the very name of the letter "u" will become "oo," all long "u" sounds will be pronounced long "oo," and words like "unique" will have the article "an" in front of them. <shrug>
 


Posted by Robyn_Hood (Member # 2083) on :
 
I always thought it was "an" if the word starts with a vowel and "a" if it starts with a consonant. I've always written "an unique" and "a historian". I suppose I really should look it up because these arrangements do sound awkward when spoken. (But people don't always speak gramatically correct.)
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
quote:
(But people don't always speak gramatically correct.)

 
Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :
 
Heh. I speak English goodly.
 
Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :
 
Bah!! HSO, that oughta be "I talk English goodly"!!

Susan

 


Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
Is that a long 'oo' or short 'oo' in 'goodly?' Might explain the preference for 'speak' or 'talk.'

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited August 23, 2004).]
 


Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
 
"Me speak bad english? that's unpossible."

Ralph.
 


Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :
 
> What's the plural for of "shaman"? I know
> it's not "Shamen", is it?

Actually, you should call them "shapersons."
 


Posted by cvgurau (Member # 1345) on :
 
I would, but it's too PC. It's Shamen, dagnabbit, not Sha-woman, no matter what they tell you.

*shrug*

I'm fighting a head cold. Obviously. Besides, I never claimed to be funny.
 


Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
 
Sha-entities?
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Since the term comes from Sanskrit it can't possibly be non-politically-correct. Who could possibly think that anything of Sanskrit origin was politically incorrect?

PS the forum just told me that my password wasn't correct, but I'm pretty sure it isn't of Sanskrit origin.
 


Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
 
Sha-na-na-na, hey, hey, hey, goodbye.
 
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
Good one, Mary.

While I have you, did you see the article in Reader's Digest (September) about Dr. Silly, the children's therapist who uses puppets, among myriad other props? He was a puppeteer for 20 years who studied at the Institut International de la Marionette and the Institut Fur Therapeutisches Puppenspiels.

Don'tcha love that? Puppenspiels!

Anyway, thought you'd be interested.

(How in the world do you spell 'don'tcha?' Doncha...dontcha...don'tcha...??? And, yes, I know it's not really a word, but I was trying hard to shake Truss.)

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited August 24, 2004).]
 


Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
 
I did not see that article, but the Institute is really hard to get into and very highly regarded. I feel like I ought to know who the guy is.

Now, on the more serious question. If we consider that apostrophes are used to indicate missing letters, then I think you could get away with don'cha. However, I had no trouble understanding don'tcha, and it might represent the explosive qualities of the second syllable better.
 


Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
 
So Shamenspiels?

"Picture a Glockenspiel(sp?)"

They Might be Giants.
 




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