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Has anyone out there seen a good use of zombies, or read a good use of zombies?
If you were going to use a "living dead" character, how would you do it effectively?
Just trying to stimulate some conversation.
Just had to say it.
The only good use of a zombie I have seen was when it wasn't dead, but was half-alive and strugging to become fully alive once again. That is, when it was a character who made an impact on the reader/viewer. The 'zombieness' was always incidental to the character's other aspects and you could have made it a leper, an alcoholic, a poltician or other sufferer, without really affecting the story.
I've never seen a zombie that I cared about otherwise. Massed zombies are just a 'super'natural force to be reckoned with and just as interesting as any other disaster flick, which is to say, not very.
[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited September 20, 2004).]
Well, my 90,000 word sort-of-zombie novel. I've taken a few liberties, along the line of what Mike mentioned but taking it rather further along...
Why zombies? I honstly don't know. And actually, I wasn't fully certain the character in question was a quasi-zombie (there are full zombies as well, and better terms for everything) until a great whack of it was already written. I think I was just trying to write SOMETHING in the dark-fantasy-with-romantic-subplot genre that didn't involve a vampire or a werewolf.
Nothing wrong with sexy vampires and angsty werewolves. I just feel about them the way you do about zombies.
I myself was never that big a fan of zombie movies, but I've only ever seen Resident Evil and Dawn of the Dead (the remake, from c. '89). They were both pretty decent. I'd probably watch them again, if there was nothing else on, but I wouldn't pay for them.
And Shaun of the Dead is a spoof of zombie movies, if I understand the few commercials I've seen. I envision a zombie grabbing the head of one of the two main characters snarling "Brain....braaaaiiiinn", before tapping their skulls, puzzled at the hollow sound, then moving on, still snarling for brains. A la Simpsons, of course.
My 2 cents.
CVG
So in every zombie movie, to preserve suspense, the characters have to go into a zombie-infested place unarmed, or their weapons have to jam or run out of ammo at the most inopportune moment. Then either they die or some breakthrough happens that lets them destroy all of them.
Personally, I never liked zombie movies. Plot aside, I just get too freaked out by the images....
Yeah, I'm disturbed. And?
Jon
(Though she is in only one scene )
For Example:
If a hero killed a bunch of rioting normal people, we would think less of the "hero".
But if the hero kills tons of zombies, we can shrug it off, Well. They were already dead. No big deal.
It kinda gives the hero a guilt free license to kill.
By the way - Why do zombies need to eat humans?
Overall I think zombies could make for an interesting plot device, but I have yet to see them used as such.
Oh, wait, that's Santa Claus.
Zombies worked pretty effectively in "Pirates of the Carribean".
I guess they were psuedo-zombies, in a way. And yes, they were done particularly well.
Killing something that's already dead? I never have been able to figure that one out.
quote:
Killing something that's already dead? I never have been able to figure that one out.
One bright day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys got up to fight.
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard this noise,
Came o'er and killed those two dead boys.
If you don't believe this lie is true,
Go ask the blind man: He saw it too!
-unknown
This is the version I learned as a kid. 
Susan
The appeal of movie zombies that eat brains and so forth is simply that they are really gross, but not as morally horrifying as the same amount of mortal human gore. NewsBys has already mentioned this, of course. But it is an important factor in movie making.
Since we're writers rather than horror flick producers, movie zombies probably aren't the best inspiration. As I was saying, the reality of zombies is much more frightening and interesting. Basically, a voodoo sorcerer (basically a fallen priest) drugs you with some concoction that supresses all your life signs for long enough that you are presumed dead. After the funeral, he (or possibly she) digs you up and gives you an antidote of sorts. But the recovery isn't complete. You'll probably have at least some brain damage, and amnesia along with increased vulnerability to suggestion are usual results. The vodunist then uses you to terrorize those you knew in life either for purposes of extortion, revenge, or simply to build a reputation (important for some of the sympathetic magics popular in dark voodoo).
Although the actual practice is both extremely rare and forbidden, it is probably second only to the use of "voodoo dolls" in the popular conception of voodoo. Which may be a good argument for not using voodoo zombification.
----
Zombification? That's one I'll have to add to my HUB lexicon.
I believe this is same the reason that the world of The Matrix was constructed so that every person in the world (other than the main heroes) is essentially a zombie. That allows the heroes to commit unlimited, gratuitous violence and still remain heroic.
Oh, and Garry Shandling as Mulder was hilarious, made even more so considering that Richard Gear played A.D. Skinner.
On the Matrix: I never understood why a person who dies in the matrix dies in real life. At least, not a person still hardwired to it. If this is true, then Neo and the other rebels are killing the very people they're trying to save. Seems kind of counter-productive, to me.
On topic, I've never read a zombie book, (or a book just with zombies in them) so I don't know how effective they aren't, but a zombie movie done right can be pretty terrifying. And gruesome. And gory.
These are all good things.
Disbelief....suspenders.....snapping......
quote:
as soon as everyone started turing into mindless monsters intent on nothing more than eating, I lost a lot of my interest.
I like plain, old fashioned zombies, so my fave such movie is Night of the Living Dead. To me, a zombie isn't supposed to be anything but a zombie, and to make it into something it isn't, or to make a show which centers around them into something other than a zombie movie, usually turns me off. I liked the first Resident Evil movie; not so much its sequel.
The Dawn of the Dead remake was pretty good--because in part it had an apocalypse bit to it (I also like apocalypse stories). I do like the realism added when the government gets involved.
quote:
Has anyone out there seen a good use of zombies, or read a good use of zombies?
There was a British movie not so long ago that had zombies in it, that might be more to your style, where the story wasn't about the zombies so much as this one group of people.
quote:
If you were going to use a "living dead" character, how would you do it effectively?
As much as I enjoy watching zombies on the screen, I don't think I could enjoy them in a novel or short story. I just don't think they'd be scary then. If I were to use one in a story, it could not be the centerpiece of the tale nor the main "scary" bit in a horror/dark fantasy novel; it just wouldn't work for me to try to make it so.
Cya,
CC
quote:
My WIP has a zombie. This zombie, however, is one of the most horrific creations that I have ever conjured. I'm quite proud of her ^^.
Hmm, now that I think on it, I might have something that qualifies as a zombie--or just the undead in my novel. He's pretty gross, but I think his actions are more scary than just him. He is also a recurring antagonist. And if he had a taste for anything human, he had it before he was killed ;-) I must have been unconsciously channeling my zombie fetish ;-) when I wrote him.
Which reminds me of another movie that has zombies--or sorta--in it, but doesn't really focus on them as the main scariness or main plot imo; the main plot is being a spoof, which it does well--it's hilarious. I can't remember the name. Book of the Dead? Necromonicon? Something like that. It has the actor who played Autolycus (sp?) from Xena/Hercules tv series play the main character.
Cya,
CC
quote:Think there'd be enough different things people could do with the idea?
Just had a thought, I suppose someone could write an interesting story that used television to turn people into actual zombies (instead of figurtive ones).
Lord Soth in Dragonlance: What a cool undead character, and pretty ominous. The back story was very good.
Also, the undead around the wizards tower in Palanthus, (it has been a while, but I think that is semi-correct).
Then, the best example is the Necromantic society on Abarrach in "The Fire Sea" the third novel in The Death Gate Cycle. What a cool way to have zombies and undead behave. The "Lazar" are what the semi-undead people became or were called. With their souls flitting in and out of there bodies like a flickering flourescent light (at least that is how I equate it). In this story, it shows that your control over something isn't as strong as you think. That rottweiller on the leash just may rip you to shreds someday. The Zombies are revolting! Literally! Good stuff!
250 words or one typed, double-spaced page. Post the first two sentences on a thread in F&F.
Anyone interested? If so, I'll start a thread for the challenge.
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited September 22, 2004).]
They spawn a challenge!
Of course, popularly the difference is in the amount of juicy flesh clinging to the body, if the flesh is dry or if most of the bones are showing, then it is undead rather than zombiesque for the purposes of Hollywood.
By the first distinction, the zombies in Night of the Living Dead work because they were being animated and controlled by some kind of radiation from outer space (as I recall). But the later zombies in that series are under their own control, just with the addition of an insatiable appetite for live brains. So they would be undead...except that they have juicy flesh to be spattered on everything.
But that gets back to NB's point about guilt free violence.
I was beginning to wonder if I was going to be able to start writing again, what with all the stress I've had lately, but my fingers are starting to itch again. So unless we have another major crisis here, I'm about ready for the next challenge!
Susan
The other movies you reference (with the Necronomicon) are the classic Evil Dead movies by Sam Raimi, now best known for Spiderman I and II. Again, not technically zombies...the dead bodies are used as shells for evil spirits. Odd thing about these movies is that Evil Dead II, ostensibly the "sequel" to Evil Dead I, doesn't continue the story started in ED I at all, but is more of a complete retelling of the original tale. Army of Darkness was an actual follow-up to EDII, though.
[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited September 22, 2004).]
Unless you are talking about some of the old mummy movies in which someone steals some artifact that controls the mummy. Through the use of the artifact they get the mummy to kill off all of the people they don't like. But the mummy usually turns on the carrier of the artifact and kills him in the end. Mummies might need their own category in that case. The reason being, is that they are usually created to guard a tomb for eternity. Created= zombie or something akin to it. But they usually are free to control themselves, and that = undead. Maybe it depends on if they were slaves in life to begin with.
Anyway, zombies and mummies are usually in a different mythos. That is probably the answer right there.
Personally I'm a HUGE fan of Zombies, and I really can't tell you why. The '68 Night of The Living Dead is one of my favorite movies ever, its sequels are all great, as are its remakes, and I loved both Resident Evil films, not to mention a slew of other zombie flicks. And the Resident Evil games, and many other Zombie based games... A friend of mine plays in a "Zombie" metal band, another friend was writing a zombie novel, we've all ready Max Brooks recent "Zombie Survival Guide" which is a humourous (yet serious) take on how to survive a zombie outbreak (look it up, a fun read).
I think there is just something morbidly fascinating about the idea of people that are "Dead" harming you. Death is the ultimate barrier, and to have something that has passed it cause a threat to the living...its just freaky. Its otherworldly. Surreal. The best zombie films and stories seem to show humans in a very truthful manner. We see what it really means to be alive, and how society fials to function when "all hell breaks loose".
I just can't get enough of zombies personally.
It sounds like there may be interest in a flash-fic zombie challenge so I'll post it over in F&F.
Not to mention the nightmares that Toben the Many will give you. Until I read that section of the book, I would have said that I've never seen zombies as truly scary.
That is the fantasy/horror creature, not necessarily the "real" zombies of Voodoo/Santaria fame. Though I suspect if you kill those, they are dead too. Really dead.
Susan
I suppose one could argue that *any* undead creature is actually only mostly dead but slightly alive. If that is not the case, what it the difference, then, of a mostly dead critter and an undead critter?
I must confess that I, for one, have never met a zombie or undead creature in person, therefore am far from an expert.
Susan
I shamelessly adapted some dialogue from "The Princess Bride" in my post above. (Click here and search the page for "mostly dead.") It was not meant to be taken as a serious explanation of undead phenomena.
[This message has been edited by EricJamesStone (edited September 28, 2004).]
For the undead-philes here, do any undead need to breathe?
Susan
What's so great about zombies? They are funny! I skimmed all the messages, and think people missed out on mentioning the movie "An American Werewolf in London" - because of the werewolf's magical nature, people he kills become zombies.
Funny zombies. Zombies with a sense of humor. Well, at least that is how I remember the best friend of the guy who gets turned into a zombie by the werewolf who turned him into a werewolf. Got it? Ok, some of the humor is visual (gross, but funny). I avoid reading and watching horror, but this one I would recommend.
Really. Oh, and maybe they should be termed the "animate dead" - they are totally dead, but they can talk, walk, and do the Rubber Duckie.
"Southpark" used them too - hilarious.
[This message has been edited by punahougirl84 (edited September 28, 2004).]
It is the continued connection of the body itself to some animating force that makes these creatures non-dead (or undead, as the more common term would put it). The term refers to the corporeal body itself, not to any incorporeal elements like a ghost or spirit (which is presumed to survive death in most cases anyway, and has its own terminology already).
Susan
Let's see, undead types tend to be classed by their motives, behavior, and physical decomposition path, right? So really you can just generate your own undead spec and call it whatever you like, I should think.
Drinks blood and doesn't decay much=vampires. Eats flesh of the living and decays horribly=zombies. Eats flesh of the dead and decays backwards=ghouls. Defends tomb against robbers and decays naturally=mummies. What about "seeks vengence and decays artfully" ala The Crow? Or how about "continues to live normal life but decays normally" which we occasionally see? There's the old "frets about having never been baptized but never decays either" thing. Oooh! the "interior bits replaced by robotic machine, does not decay unless the outer bits are 'killed'" thing. I like those myself.
I guess you'd call that Amberzombie & Witch.
Could the Borg be classed as pseudo-zombies? I know they aren't dead, but the sickly grey colour of their skin almost makes it appear as though they're decomposing and they are always out looking for new brains to devour, uh, I mean assimilate. Also, they are controlled by an evil queen.
(Okay, I know they are actually cyborgs and merely drones, but Survivor's description of the various undead made me think of this )
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited September 30, 2004).]
To which I say, "BWAH!" Love it!
I read a great short story by Richard Matheson about a teenage ghoul girl. I don't remember the name of the story, but she was Deidre and she rose from the grave to eat people. She got herself a job at the local morgue in order to chow down, only to be caught by a co-worker who threatened to turn her in. She gets out of it by breaking up her own body and lying on a slab, so that when the cops come, it appears the co-worker murdered her. It was dark and funny, and pretty unique, since the ghoul herself looked like a normal, teenaged girl when she chose to.
The borg represent the loss of individuality, zombies represent the loss of humanity. Very similar ideas, being you can still look like a human but you are shorn of all your human characteristics, and thusly become a threat to other humans.
We humans are very protective of our individualism, it seems.
I love Richard Matheson's short stories, but think I missed that one. He wrote a lot of undead stuff. If you want to read about major undead action, check out Matheson's - I am Legend. Also included in my version of I am Legend is is a story about "radioactive reanimated corpses".
The problem with classification is that it almost always leaves someone out. For example, Varney the Vampire of the old penny dreadfuls decayed quite a bit.
What was this about ghouls decaying backwards?
Oh, and IMO the term for a destroyed undead is 're-dead.'
Finally, as to the Borg, IMO they've been altered over time to become more like undead, but I'd compare them more to vampires that zombies. After all, they assimilate you now using two prongs injected into the neck, and the queen is a sensual being as depicted in [u]First Contact.[/u]
[This message has been edited by DeepShadow (edited October 01, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by DeepShadow (edited October 01, 2004).]
There can be no such thing as a techno-zombi unless it is animated by a supernatural force. But it can be called zombi-like if it acts like a zombi.
Premise:
If we take a human as part body, part mind and part spirit, (spirit being the quickening element, that which moves and animates and responds to intent ), what is a zombie?
Clearly it is a body and spirit without mind.
Other forms of 'zombi' therefore could be body and mind without spirit (vampire?) and spirit and mind without body (ghost?), so long as there has been some form of supernatural agency involved in their creation.
It is also possible to break a being down into its most basic parts, perhaps it is just a spirit, (an apparition doomed to replay events over and over again in order to play-out some unresolved intent) or mind (an example of an overmind type entity able to reason and be self-aware) or just plain body (manifestation of physical elements).
In the overlap between the three big areas there could also be beings of twilight, not quite mind, but not quite spirit or body either, something transitioning from one to another. Like a poltergeist. You have all read about poltergeists that progress from making noise, to moving things, to making breathy voices to slapping people and pulling the sheets off beds then finally appearing. It is a being in transit.
So lets say someone could take a fleshly body, prepare it with his clever arts, then offer it up 'for rent' to any passing entity to use at its will. The practitioner may retain ownership of the body and the right to pull the plug on the possessive being's lease to ensure it remains compliant. You kill the body and the spirit just goes back to his 'landlord' and gets a new one, a better one, one that fits better.
What sort of rent would he charge? What price would the entity be willing to pay? What could he get the 'zombi' to do? What could stop him?
The threat I see from zombis is not the zombi itself but what it signifies, that there is a practitioner who has mastered his art and turned to achieve his own ends.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited October 12, 2004).]
Which leads me to Zombo.com. (Be sure you have your computer's sound turned on.)
LOL, how did you ever find that? Did you listen all the way to the end?
Hoptoad
Great idea. Let mw know when you write something using it!
That link is a trip.Hoptoad, I third mike and NewsBys's motion. I'd love to read a story based on that idea.
[edited for the sake of inclusion]
[This message has been edited by Keeley (edited October 13, 2004).]
Anyway, I'll post the "all clear" on Zombo.com for now. But I can't be held responsible if you try to get T-shirts and stuff from them.