Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Occult relic hunters

This is topic Occult relic hunters in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by SiliGurl (Member # 922) on :

Since you guys are such an eclectic bunch, I thought I'd pose you this question.

In my WiP, 2 organizations are looking for clues/relics that will lead them to an uber occult relic. I'm doing back ground research on real organizations that would have done something similar.

I know the Nazis looked for stuff, and would imagine so did the Masons or Templars.

Who else? I appreciate any leads/info/links.

Sili

Posted by Nick Vend (Member # 1816) on :

There's the Illuminati of course. Any secret society in fact. And of course, you could have specialists in a University setting. Or you could have a secret society in a University setting!

Then you have the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis), the Golden Dawn, and possibly the Rosicrucians. There's plenty of information about any of these groups on the internet.

Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :

You could also make up your own, like Ann Rice did with her Talamasca organization.

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

I like Nick Vend's idea. What if you had a University professor of Archaeology, and he also went around the world and hunted down ancient occult relics (presumably between semesters)? In fact, you could even make him race against the nazi's to find said artifacts. I'm thinking like states in the midwest for his name. That would be a totally sweet book, or maybe a movie.

I can't think who might be able to play him, though.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Heh heh heh. Okay, fine.

There are two kinds of secret organizations. Those that are not really secret, and those that aren't really organizations.

The latter are far more effective than the former.

The key is in your own question. "Who else?" In a truly viable secret organization, it's who you know. Nothing is ever formalized, everything is done through personal contacts. So there will be professional archologists, collectors, and common criminals looking for these clues and relics, and all passing certain bits of information on to "interested parties" for various reasons. Somewhere, there will be a certain individual (or more than one, in the case you present) collecting that information and passing on whatever suggestions and inducements seem likely to elicit more.

Posted by Nick Vend (Member # 1816) on :

Yeah, I knew that sounded familiar even as I wrote it. But hey, artists steal! George Lucas/Philip Kaufman didn't invent the idea of Occult relics in a scholarly context. Look at HP Lovecraft's Mikatonic University.

Posted by bladeofwords (Member # 2132) on :

A note on secret societies. I know of a local one. It's probably the only society I know of that is both very secret and very organized. I can count the number of people who know about it that aren't in it on my hands and it's been around for over a decade.

I think what makes most secret societies secret is the fact that nobody knows what goes on inside of them, but you know that certain members of the society will be at meetings at certain times.

The aforementioned secret society is a group of the elite "core" people in a certain activity. Out of a possible twenty-thirty people who participate in the activity only a half dozen are members of the society. I was one of the few people who found out about it without becoming a member (I overheard a conversation on accident). The level of secrecy in the organization was described as being a situation in which there could be ten people hanging out in a room for hours, nine of them members, and the tenth wouldn't have a clue anything existed.

If anybody wants to ask any questions feel free, but I don't feel like going to go into more detail now.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Eh, those kinds. Those are actually pretty ubiquitous. They occasionally serve some actual function, but since they form spontaneously and are usually pretty worthless, it is rare.

Posted by Scott R (Member # 1353) on :

Secret societies?

Like. . . RPG gaming groups?

Posted by bladeofwords (Member # 2132) on :

lol, that's a very good example. Who the hell knows what happens in there?

Posted by bladeofwords (Member # 2132) on :

Really though, what is the point of any secret society? The masons? It's all a bunch of colleagues or peers or whatnot who watch out for each other. That's basically what a secret society is most of the time. Occasionally there is some group that's trying to take over the world, but yeah. I don't really get your comment survivor. Call me stupid or what have you, but I don't really get it.

Jon

Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :

Apparently, the point of Skull & Bones is to create presidents.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

That isn't a secret society, since it isn't a secret.

My point is that there isn't any such thing as a "secret society" in the sense of being both formally organized with a defined membership and rules and all that, and secret. The one precludes the other.

And the non-secret societies can't really carry out things in true secrecy. The best that a non-secret society can achieve is "plausible deniability", meaning that you couldn't prove it in a court of law. But it isn't like that makes something a true secret.

As the desire to be on the "inside" of something is apparently a universal human desire (one of the hardest to understand, too), "secret" societies that exist mainly to create an insider/outsider distinction for the members to be on the "inside" of are everywhere, and almost nowhere do they serve even the slightest function other than to assuage some deep human need that no rational being can understand. But, such a society can be used, if you know how.

But it isn't the "society" that decides on a course of action and tries to implement it, nor is it even a sub-set or faction or council within the society that sets real goals to be accomplished. It is an individual person that decides to use the necessarily loose organization of a society that is "secret" to accomplish his or her own ends. But to be truely effective, this action cannot be limited to channels that pass through what others would recognize as the original society. The "secret" society is only a tool, like everything else.

Anyway, the important thing is that really secret societies aren't formally organized and are defined by individual contacts rather than proceedures and rules. The more secret the society, the fewer people will know the actual reasons behind its actions, the methods it uses, and the identity of the true leader of the society. The less secret a society, the more likely it is that it will be opposed. And once a society loses secrecy, it cannot really use "secrecy" as a means of accomplishing anything.

Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :

Survivor, good points. Along with our all-too-human desires to be on the "inside" of something sits the desire to let others know we are on the inside. Like amateur criminals who get caught because they brag about their exploits instead of keeping their mouths discreetly shut. Thus are secret societies compromised.

Also, it's not that the existence of the society is a secret. What is secret is what they do behind closed doors, and who's doing it. Because of the problem mentioned above, even this begins to leak to the public. I would hazard this is the evolution of a great many "secret" societies.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

The easist thing is to dispense with the idea of having a secret society at all. Really, in the scenario listed above, the society would probably be more obscure than secret.

Posted by bladeofwords (Member # 2132) on :

yes, in the example that's all true.

I'd like to say that the purpose of a secret society is basically for it to be a fraternity type of thing. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Although a lot of times it's more of a, "you save my ass, I'll save yours" type of thing.

What is up with that need to be on the "inside" ?I think that it actually kind of makes sense. If you're on the inside then you know something that other people you might be in competition with don't. That makes you safer and more secure. In addition, the insiders are more likely to have the support of other insiders. I really think it all comes back to a mutual protection sort of thing.

Yeh for circular logic.

Jon