This is topic MICE problem in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
I'm working out my concept for next month's NvNoWriMo and I'm running into an interesting question: where to begin. Of course, this is often an interesting question, but let me see if I can't help you understand my dilemna.

This is a character story. It is the story of a girl who is a monster but who does not want to be. This becomes mainly an internal struggle, so by the MICE formula, this story begins at the point at which Kiara (that's her name) wants her life to change and ends when such a change happens or she becomes satisfied with the way things are.

The trouble is that Kiara wants her life to change from the moment she becomes a monster. This would predict starting the story with her first kill and fulfilling the promise of that beginning (how much she hates herself for having committed murder) by either finding some way to stop killing people or get to the point where she's ok with it.

But....I want the reader to sympathize with Kiara. I want them to like her and hate that the wolrd gave her such an impossible dilemna. I feel that this might not happen if my first chapter opens with her killing someone, as that is entirely unsympathetic. I originally thought of starting with the death of her father, as this is an inherently sympathetic event. But by this time she already pretty much hates who she is and what she's doing.

Soooo...what d'ya think?
 


Posted by AndrewR (Member # 1563) on :
 
Starting the story when she turns into a monster sounds bad to me, too. This is an extraordinary event, and you need to establish how her life was before this event for contrast.

You might want to dig a little deeper and determine what it is about her character that she needs to change. If the story is simply girl becomes monster/girl hates being monster/girl finds a way to stop being monster (or accepts being monster), it seems pretty shallow to me. After all, just about anyone would want not to be a monster, and would do just about anything to end it. There is no internal conflict in that story.

But, from the little I know about you, I know you're a better writer than that, so focus in on the internal conflict. What does she want vs. what does she need or really wants? What does she have to change about herself--her goals, her outlook, her way of working with the world. What does she need to do to solve her real problem?

Once you've pinpointed that, you can work backward and determine when that conflict reared its ugly head. That's when I would suggest you start the story--when, during the course of her daily life, the internal conflict started to bother her, when the notion that she should do something else came into her head. Then, when she turns into the monster, this will amplify the internal conflict and raise the stakes for her to resolve it.

That's at least one place to start.

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited October 29, 2004).]
 


Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :
 
Umm, yeah, I'm going to have to...go ahead and...disagree with AndrewR on this one...okay?

As far as I know, starting the story when she becomes a monster might be a fine beginning. Or maybe not. You're the only one who knows that, Christine, seeing as you're the only one who really knows the story you're going to tell. It's not a shallow plot unless you write it in a shallow way.

Now, consider this. Killing people is not entirely unsympathetic; WANTING to kill people is. You could write the scene of her killing somebody and portray how she feels about it as she's doing it, so that the reader realizes she doesn't want to and that it's beyond her control. Potentially, that scene could win my sympathy more than any other scene I could think of.

Ever read "Crime and Punishment?" If not, you really need to; it's a fantastic book. In the opening scene, Raskolnikov, the main character, walks through the streets contemplating how he's going to murder a helpless old lady. An unsympathetic thing to do? Clearly, but Dostoyevsky makes it clear that he is somehow imbalanced and that it is somehow beyond his control. You don't find out exactly WHAT is going on in his head until later, but it's clear that he has problems, and you actually feel sorry for him instead of hating him (as you normally would someone who is planning to murder a helpless old lady.)

Ever watch "Heat?" (The one from the 90s with Deniro and Pacino, not the 70s one with Burt Reynolds). Deniro is a bank robber, and a very cold character. In the opening sequence, he commands his team in robbing an armored truck, during which robbery the guards are all murdered, some at Deniro's command. The movie turns him into a sympathetic character, even though if you knew him in real life instead of in a story, you would fear and hate hime because he's, well, evil.

Point 1: Like with Deniro in "Heat," readers have a MUCH higher threshold for forgiving evil acts in a story than they would in real life. You just have to give them a good enough reason.

Point 2: To paraphrase Ender, once you understand your enemy, you begin to love him (or her). Once the reader understands your character who is doing wicked things, they will love him (or her). Like Raskolnikov in "Crime and Punishment."

Hope that helps.

 


Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :
 
quote:
The trouble is that Kiara wants her life to change from the moment she becomes a monster.

This is an event story, not a character story. Something went wrong, something changed that put the whole world out of kilter, nothing will be right again until it is 'fixed'. Pure event story.


 


Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
I think you may be right that this is an event story. I guess because the "event" also begins so much internal character turmoil I was thinking about it as a character story...

I'm not seeing how the plot is shallow, but perhaps that's because I understand what Kiara's problem is and what's going on in her head. And I don't think that most people in her case wouldn't *want* to be a monster...it is who she is, after all. By the time this is over she's going to struggle with depression, suicide, a mother who hates who she is and who kills herself, and a few other surprises I'm working out the details on right now.
 


Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :
 
Sounds about as cheerful as a bunch of crippled people locked up together in a giant compound with sadistic, abusive guards.
 
Posted by GZ (Member # 1374) on :
 
I think I agree that this is more of an event story. The event story and character story are so often interwoven in actual fiction, it can be a pretty blurry line.

Could there also be sort of a second relevation of her hating being a monster? A decision point when she sees a way to evaide/make palitable this curse after suffering the affliction for some time? It's not the very begining of being a monster, but it is a begining of change.
Then you don't start with the intital killing incidents, although that might not work at all with the structure you are invisioning for the novel.

And I have to second that wetwilly has some excellent points. Character motivation will put the actions in perspective, so if your character is in angony about what she has done, you gain great sympathy points.

 


Posted by J (Member # 2197) on :
 
I have a similar problem with my WIP. How do you start when the point of your story is the internal change experienced by one character, but those changes occur in the context of an interesting, story-worthy, set of events. The uniqueness of the events and the time spent on them seems to make it an "event" story, but the real point is the character change.

I see the answer is in the way I look at MICE. M-I-C-and-E are components, not exclusive terms. Saying that a story "is" an event story is shorthand for saying that it is more about events than it is characters, ideas, or milieu. Who says you can't have equal amounts of "C" and "E"?

My proposed solution to the "equal amounts" case is to engineer the story so that the character's desire to change and the problem occur close enough together that I don't have to choose between them for the beginning.


 


Posted by GavinLoftin (Member # 1966) on :
 
I think one of the most important things we need to know before commenting, is what changed her into a monster?
I mean, if its something out of her control, its easier to start when she becomes a monster and show her emotional disgust at what she is doing.
If Kiara becoming a monster is directly related to her own actions, then it would be better to let us get to know her before we see her first kill
 
Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
 
If you have problems with MICE just get a good cat.
 
Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :
 
Try Schroedinger's Cat for MICE problems. Always worked for me. *G*

For those unfamiliar with that, here's an explanation that is both readable and enjoyable!

Shroedinger's Cat: A Fun Quantum Physics Experiment You Can Do In Your Spare Time

Susan
 


Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
 
I agree with the others who say the MICE components aren't exclusive to each other. Your story should contain all of them in balance (which does not mean equally distributed). What might be helpful for this is to overlay elements of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey on top of the MICE elements. In the Hero's Journey, the beginning of a myth or story has our hero living in their own normal world, which they must leave and enter the world of the strange. You must show the hero in her normal world for a little bit so that when she becomes a monster we'll have a context for it and we'll know what she's lost (family, friends, status).

I'm sure many of you already know these ideas, but since they may be helpful in a situation like Nano, Here's all the stages, with some notation by me:

1. Ordinary World (pre-monster)
2. Call to Adventure (she becomes a monster)
3. Refusal of the Call (inner turmoil and conflict)
4. Meeting with the Mentor (another of her kind or scientist or wizard, perhaps)
5. Crossing the First Threshold (first episode of killing)
6. Tests, Allies, Enemies (more killing, figuring out her way, internal and physical struggle)
7. Approach to the Inmost Cave
8. Ordeal
9. Reward
10. The Road Back
11. Resurrection (we or somebody thinks she's dead)
12. Return with Boon

The Writer's Journey, by Christopher Vogler, is one of the most helpful books I've ever read concerning the nuts and bolts of putting together the story. His Hero's Journey follows Joseph Campbell's (the greatest mythologist of the 20th century). The steps above don't necessarily go in any order: mentors, allies, enemies, friends may of course pop up nearly anywhere. Crossing the first threshold may happen early or later.

Before anyone cries "Formula!" let me say that these elements are always found to some degree in any good story, just like the MICE elements are always found in any good story. They are tools to help you with what you've already got. Only a bad writer would use them formulaically. Good writers are conscious of what goes into their craft, and to me, tools such as these help maintain that "craft consciousness."

Hope you find this helpful.

[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited October 30, 2004).]
 


Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :
 
I would start the story shortly before she becomes a monster. That seems to be the key here: you need to show the event that causes her to be what she doesn't want to be, before we can really understand why she doesn't want to be... whatever it is.
 
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
 
My assumption is that she liked who she was before she became a monster. That being the case, even if you start with her changing, you need to show at least a bit of her past. It could be merely what she is doing or where she is at the time of the change- as magicbeans suggested - this would introduce to the reader her ordinary world so we know what she wants to return to. Like the Wizard of Oz- show the reader a bit of Kansas before you send her over the monster rainbow.
 
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
Thanks for all the responses, guys!

One thing you should know about this story is that there was always the chance that Kiara would turn out to be what she is...it's hereditary but can skip around. It only rears its ugly head at puberty...that is the only trigger. In fact, her mother has the same problem. So Kiara never had a particularly ordinary life. One thing she has to deal with is that her mother has been praying her entire life that she wouldn't turn out this way and when she does....well, Kiara perception is that her mother hates her. (That's not entirely true, but the perception creates the reality in this case.)
 




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