I'm whipping together an article on writing, using the idea (as explained by John Vorhaus in his book, "The Comic Toolbox") that the main character has two goals in a story: his "outer need," which is his initial goal, and his "inner need," which is a more important/ethical goal he gains during the course of the story.
There are plenty of stories where the main character gets both his "outer" and "inner need." For instance, in the movie "Tootsie," Duston Hoffman gets the girl and revives/saves his acting career.
There are plenty of tragedies where the main character loses both his "outer" and "inner need," too. Mr. Smith in "Nineteen Eighty-Four" gets completely squashed by the State. Elric, in Moorcock's Elric Saga, gets devoured by his own evil sword.
I can even think of stories where the main character gets his "outer need" but not his "inner need." Paul Atriedes in "Dune" defeats Baron Harkonnen and takes over the entire galactic empire. But he is unable to prevent the galactic jihad he foresees in the future caused by his actions--at least for another two novels or so.
But I can't find any famous stories that illustrate the fourth possibility: where the main character gets his "inner need" but loses his "outer need," his initial goal in the story. I would think there are some romances that have this, where the guy gives up everything for the girl, but for the life of me, I can't think of one.
So, can anyone think of a story where the hero fails in his initial goal/quest/desire, but ends up with something else that the hero finds fully satisfying? Or does this type of story simply not exist?
Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :
I'm not sure I understand this "inner need/outer" need exactly, but I'll give it a shot.
How about "The Headless Horseman of Sleepy Hollow."
The outer need is the girl, the inner need is his life. He keeps his life (inner need) by running away, but loses the girl (outer need).
Or is that backwards for some reason?
Posted by Robyn_Hood (Member # 2083) on :
I'm not sure if this works, but what about the movie Somersby. Richard Gere's character wants to start a new life for himself (outer goal) while learning to do the right thing (inner goal). But at the end of the movie he is faced with a choice: in order to do the right thing, he must give up his new life. He chooses to do the right thing.
Posted by NewsBys (Member # 1950) on :
Where you looking specifically for a fiction story? If not, how about Apollo 13? They "lost the moon", but regained the country's attention to the space program through thier trevails and amazing tale of survival and teamwork. The movie was based on the book titled "Lost Moon: The Perilous Voyage of Apollo 13" by Jim Lovell (the commander for the mission)
Posted by J (Member # 2197) on :
For Whom the Bell Tolls The Old Man and the Sea Rocky I The Replacements
Posted by Robyn_Hood (Member # 2083) on :
Meet me in Las Vegas starring Dan Dailey and Cyd Charisse.
Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :
The Bad News Bears
Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :
"Crime and Punishment"
He ends up in prison, but finds redemption.
Posted by Tess (Member # 2199) on :
I don't have an example for you off the top of my head, but it's funny you should mention this. It's the topic of discussion I tried to get going in another online forum. The idea sprang from the use of the term "the greater good."
When talking about what drives a character, you can look at he inner motives, the ones based on the character's emotions and who he is as a person (character flaws), and the motives more dependent on his reaction to plot events. The inner motives are more personal. The character that satisfies only his inner need comes across as more selfish, which is where the concept of the greater good comes in. A character needs to accomplish more than solely personal, selfish goals in order to be likable. Is this partly the reason why you're having trouble finding examples?
I hope I'm not being to abstract. I'm not sure what John Vorhaus intended when he used the terms.
Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :
Tale of Two Cities. Sidney Carton attains his inner goal of redemption but loses the outer goal, his life. And I think Crime and Punishment, already mentioned, is a perfect example as well.
Ender's Game works too if you think about it. Ender defeats the Buggers but does the thing he most hates and fears about himself (acts like Peter).
Posted by J (Member # 2197) on :
Wouldn't Ender's Game be the reverse of what Andrew is looking for?
Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :
Oh yeah. Sorry.
Posted by yanos (Member # 1831) on :
All goals are ultimately selfish. It is just that some are more accpetable than others.
Frodo in Lord of the Rings satisfied his outer need but failed to find resolution for his inner need. Aragorn satisifed both his inner and outer need - lucky man.
Shrek is an example of inner need winning. The princess gives up her dreams of marrying a handsome prince to marry someone she loves.
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
"Hamlet" would be an example of the fourth type. Hamlet gains his inner need--revenge against his uncle to avenge his father--and loses ALL outer needs--his country, his love, his life.
Posted by J (Member # 2197) on :
I would disagree about Shakespearean tragedy generally, and Hamlet in particular. I don't think they readily fit into this paradigm. What makes a story like Hamlet tragic is that the main character is confused or mistaken about his inner need.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 1563) on :
Thanks for the great suggestions. I knew I could count on you guys. Sommersby and The Old Man and the Sea would definitely fit, I think. Looks like most of the others would, too (although I have my doubts about Hamlet). And, come to think of it, Casablanca would be a good fit, too. If winning Ingrid Bergman ain't an "outer need," I don't know what is.
And it looks like I started a good discussion on "inner" and "outer" needs.
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
I don't want to get into a discussion on Shakespeare, but I must disagree with you, J. Hamlet is confused about nothing. He cannot commit himself to forthright, steely action.
However, after more consideration, Hamlet may not be a good example because his desire for vengeance isn't his own, but something impressed upon him by the ghost of his father, so maybe it doesn't really fit the example. The other inner desires he had, such as love for Ophelia, were all destroyed through his inaction to satisfy his father.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
The problem with Hamlet is that he can't just forgive his uncle and kill the man, he has to send everyone to hell over it.
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
What about HAL 9000? He lost his inner desires in order to satisfy his outer and conflicting mission objectives.
