Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Welsh myth and names

This is topic Welsh myth and names in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001548

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

I decided that my place name Dinas Emrys had to go. It's entire plane (an equivement to Phillip Jose Farmer's pocket universes) composed of passages and chambers in rock.

Too many people got confused with my character Emrys.

I considered Annwm. The average person would have to dig to figure out how to pronounce it. Then I considered, spelling it phonetically: Anoom, or Anume. Sounds too much like a Star Wars planet.

Sidi, but again that has a Star Wars feel to it.

I've also considered, Pedryvan, Veddwit, or thier phonetic equivelents.

They also relate to myths in the Welsh Otherworld, where there was a turning castle.

Opinions?

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

Pedryvan sounds good. I suspect most people would struggle to pronounce Veddwit even if it was spelled phonetically.

Posted by J. Stewart (Member # 2262) on :

I like both your options. Does one of them have a better connection with your story?

You might even look back into Celtic and Gallo-Breton place names for more inspiration. How about using the Welsh words for "deep cave" or some other descriptive phrase? Unless you are trying to establish a firm connection with the Mabinogion or a particular place, the sound of the place is what you are really trying to capture.

And remember, you can have worse connections than a place that sounds like a planet on Star Wars!

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

Yeah, basically twisting Arthurian lore.

From http://www.mythopedia.info/14-celts.htm:
"The otherworldly castle in Annwm that Arthur tried to assault was variously called Caer Pedryvan, 'four-cornered castle', which was 'forever revolving', Caer Wydyr, 'glass castle', Caer Veddwit, Caer Sidi, 'turning or spiral castle'. Seven of Arthur's men survived the attack on each castle (The spoils of Annwm, 10th century)."

The only connotation I do not want is the 'glass castle', because there is a seperate crystal realm.

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

<And remember, you can have worse connections than a place that sounds like a planet on Star Wars!>

Not after the Phantom Menance.

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

<Pedryvan sounds good>

The plane of Pedryvan. I like it, very alliterative.

Then again, There is the plane of Praetoria. I guess I do though run into the rule of thumb to not have names that start with the same letter.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

You know, I'd consider sticking with Annwm. Why? Because if you're writing scifi/fantasy your audience will very likely be people who have been familiarized in their reading with the basic Welsh, and won't have any trouble with accepting the name.

I didn't. I liked it.

But then I'm an Arthur-phile.

Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :

I vote for Pedryvan. I like the sound.

I don't know if this will help you at all.

Astud.Llen It's a bibliography compiled by a former English professor of mine. It includes books on various place names from all over, including Wales.

Welsh Authors might also be helpful. It's by the same professor, and, if memory serves, helps explain the Welsh language.

[This message has been edited by Keeley (edited December 10, 2004).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

I tried to click on both links. Neither worked.

Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :

Try now. I think I fixed them.

Darn ... he's changed the website since I last looked at it. He used to have an online course there. Well, at least maybe you'll have some books you can look at.

[This message has been edited by Keeley (edited December 10, 2004).]

Posted by Whitney (Member # 2176) on :

Is there a good website that anyone knows of to help with the pronunciation of these names or words? Celtic languagues have always tripped me up.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Try this site; it might help:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/

Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :

I like Pedryvan, Veddwit reads like Bedwet.
I also like Annwm, let them pronounce it however they please.