What do you think pro and cons for mapping are?
 

The best thing, IMO, is extensive character development. The story flows from the characters. I also like to have an idea of where I'm going. I even like to have the last scene figured out so that as I'm writing I have it in mind as my goal.

But extensive plotting and mapping has not worked for me. It bogs down the creative process in planning, taking away from the thrill of discovery in the rough draft and nearly crippling the suspense in the second or third. Also, I almost never follow the outline, which is ok for those of you who do want to outline, but then as the divergence gets bigger and bigger it makes me feel insecure and I constantly worry about not being on the right path.

Like with many things, I take the middle of the roar approach, doing some planning but not a lot.
 

It works like this: I'll just jot down ideas in a notebook for over a year on a single story idea (multiple stories can be growing at once, of course). Once I have a general idea of what I want, I'll write an outline and then wait a month to think some more. Invariably, the outline will look idiotic compared to what I come up with later. After three or four outlines, I have one that I know will work decently for a story, and I stick to about 70% of it as I write the book. Just because you've outlined it doesn't mean you've restricted yourself.
 

All of my novels are character driven. But since I usually deal with horror or mystery or paranormal, it's best to have an idea when the clues will be laid out for the reader and when you're talking 85,000 words.. well.. a re-read isn't always ideal to 'catch-up'.

I think my writing structure format has been heavily influenced by my screenplay and stage play writings. Each chapter is almost treated as a scene...

Now I must be off to analyze myself.

For short stories, I wouldn't bother -- I can keep it all in my head.

 

It was sort of like solving a math problem. How do I get character X to position Y so that character Z can go to points A, B and C?

It helped that what I was writing, was based on an existing story so in a way I did have an outline of sorts.

Now, I'm probably going to try my hand at the White Wolf contest, and this time I've got a basic outline. I need to revise it in places, but I have a concept for the whole novel and can see the action from beginning to end so I'm writing it down in point form so I don't forget it.

I guess I can see this being more linear in ways than my free-form writing, I can anticipate writing it easily within a month or two (my first novel attempt took a year ).
 

The charatcer generation exercises is what really get under my skin, when I feel I have done that well enough, the story almost suggests itself to me anyway.
 

Now, the first thing I do is extensive back-story on the lead and opposition characters. This often presents story ideas. Then I flesh out the culture, politics, religion and other pertinent aspects that affect the characters. Finally, I take pen and paper and freewrite a synopsis of what I want the story to be about. I do not start writing it until I can handwrite a clear beginning, middle and end to the story on only one sheet of paper (the one-sheet concept is important for me because I tend to ramble and meander).

That does not mean I will always know exactly how I'll get from point C to point D but at least I know that there's a point D to get to.

 

For short stories I don't bother with the plotlines--just a few paragraphs of notes in the form, mainly, of questions that I need to find an interesting answer to.
 

And in most stories that I don't like, I can tell the writer was trying to take it as it comes, practicing what the dishonest writer preached.

quote:

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For my novel, I made a scene-by-scene outline in Excel; printed it, color-coded by thread; cut it up, and rearranged them. I put them in chapters, decided on chapter theme, what I wanted the scene to do in relation to that theme, and at one point, why the scene was exciting (and if it wasn't I threw it out).

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thatta boy.

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For the record, I knew the flow of the story and the decision in the final scene before I finished the first 1000 words. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be room left for contingencies, but I don't want to suffer through a writer's wandering indulgences.

[This message has been edited by Tanglier (edited March 07, 2005).]
 

quote:

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classical musicians spin the same jive about practicing

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[This message has been edited by Tanglier (edited March 08, 2005).]
 

Bear in mind I do the same amount of work for SF as for fantasy stories (sometimes more for SF if I have a technical problem I just can't resolve, because that means turning to outside sources for help).

Short stories--character sketches, maybe a paragraph or two of outline just to keep everything in my head; I used to be able to do a short in a day, but these days it averages about four days, depending on length (7000 or less, four days or less; over 7000 words, a week or more).

Novels--character sketches; copious pages of notes in which I decide where I want to go in the first place; a rough outline (usually in paragraph form, these days chapter by chapter)--I diverge from it whenever I have a better idea. The more I think through a plot point, I find that my fifth, sixth, and seventh ideas always end up being better than my first (I think OSC covers this in his book on writing SF/F and it blew my mind; since I've read that I've had far fewer plot problems).

I also like to do maps. Admittedly, it's partly because it's fun to draw them, but I also need to know where Character X is going and what they might see on the way.

When I haven't done this sort of work in the past I've ended up with ramshackle plots that were full of holes and worlds that looked more like bare closets than, well, worlds.

Every writer has a different working method, IMHO. I've met a few people who had prodigious enough memories that they could keep what they wanted to know in their heads and get away with very little prep work, and I've also met people who outline every little scene in a novel. I can't do that.

My own opinion on the subject is "whatever gets you through the night, s'alright." To coin a phrase.
 

On shorts I just write it, unless I already have something I'm working on. In that case, I keep a notebook just for jotting down story ideas. On long stuff, I've tried both ways. Right now my habit is to write an outline and make lots of notes over a long period of time. Then throw out the outline and write the story, remembering the ending and the high points along the way. (But I still need the notes).
 

This did not work out so well for me. I was averaging 5 major rewrites per book. Not "Oh, dear, need to rewrite the ending" rewrites. More like "Oh, crap, need to throw out half the characters, most of the setting, and all of the plot and then start over" rewrites.

But outlining does not work well for me either; I change my mind too much.

Of late I've been plotting, more-or-less successfully, with the help of two programs:

http://www.inspiration.com
http://www.mindola.com

The first program, Inspiration, is a brainstorming program; I use it to toss out ideas and keep track of plot threads. Pre-writing stuff, basically.

Then I take what I've got from Inspiration and put it into a recognizable timeline of scenes with SuperNotecard.

Then I start writing.

Of course, I still change my mind constantly, adding, subtracting, and altering-beyond-recognition my scenes, but I've found SuperNotecard pretty invaluable for doing the mid-book reshuffling, too. And when I realize that the scene I'm writing necessitates going back and changing an earlier scene, I can make a note of that in SuperNotecard and go on, instead of the MUST CHANGE NOW urges that bogged me down before.

So... I don't really consider myself a natural outliner. But if it keeps me from doing five and six major, throw-your-work-away revisions, I'm so there.
 

I don't think there's a real advantage or disadvantage to one or the other. I think it depends on what kind of writer you are, personally.
 

I bought a huge corkboard and mounted it to my office wall. Then I created one index card for each scene.
Cards include the following info:
*POV character's name
*Setting
*What I want the scene to accomplish

I tack all the cards up in the order I think they should go. I also tack up drawings, newspaper articles, pictures, random dialogue and phrases along the bottom of the board.

Then I use it to look for places that need more attention, scenes that are redundant, scenes I can combine, etc.

I like it because it is a physical thing I can touch and move the cards around on. Plus, it is very fluid and easy to make changes. Also, It is big and always "in my face".

It helps me when I write the scene, and by the way they usually consist about 80 - 100 % pictures.

(A lot of cool words get written on the envelope though like: sandalwood or pteradactyl etc to prompt memories when I get to it)

And do you collect photos of likely people and put them with your charatcer profiles? Sometimes I will have two or three people in one envelope and they are all supposed to be the same character. Some are for the clothes though.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 10, 2005).]
 

see here: http://www.mind-map.com/EN/mindmaps/how_to.html
 

Now I just write and then research.
 

However, it is also easy to justify a lack of genuine effort.

An example: Only a hack painter would not sketch-out his painting before he started, relying rather on tricks, well-used motifs and imagery so familiar to him as not to need a foundation. Every picture would be superficially different but, upon analysis, would be an arranging and rearranging of elements. Layering the same old stuff in a different order. They will get to an element and say, 'I should put a horse on that hill.' Then do some research (but only the barest minimum), and trace a horse and may even believe the horse 'changes' the whole image. But it doesn't.

Occasionally they may introduce some element or another into the painting, but that hardly justifies calling the painting new and exciting.

'How is this painting different to that one?' you may ask.
'Can't you see the horse on the hill?' they reply, ' This one's about freedom!"

Why would they not plan their work?

A: because they really don't want to improve their art, the want to refine their technique in orer to sell more 'genuine oil paintings' at a saturday parking-lot market.

B: Because genuine innovation, a really new image (new to their repertoire) requires mental effort and time they are unprepared to expend or

C: From the start they have no real intention of painting anything genuinely different to everything else they ever painted.

The writer without rigour is almost proverbial.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 10, 2005).]
 

I cut up the photos so that I could not see the caption and be influenced in my description, and then organized them in folders by landscapes, bridges, castles, fountains, interior decor, people, clothing, hairstyles, etc. I pull them out whenever I need ideas for non-American landscapes, architecture, etc.

I stay away from pictures of people because no one looks like my characters and every face has a story (in my mind) so if I try and look at a photo of someone who looks sort of like my character, it just doesn't come out right.

(But yes, I do trawl the interent for images too, usually the google images option)

 

I can't do it. I'm too linear and that looks so chaotic that it drives me crazy. I get too wrapped up in trying to make everything line up nicely that I can't think creatively.
 

When someone tells you about their writing process or method, that doesn't mean you have to use it, too. If you want to try it, go ahead. If it doesn't work for you, try something else.

But, please, don't feel that you have to shoot people down because they have found a use for something that has not worked for you.
 

I really like the way it worked. I still had to look stuff up, but that was just for factual detail. The big thing was to be comfortable enough with the subject that I could invent detail.
 

I've actually tried several times because it seems like such a great tool but I get so caught up in where the next line should go or this line is crooked that my OCD kicks in and my creativity turns off.

But, I never meant to berate someone else for being able to do that. I consider it an art form that I just am not capable of. But then, I'm not capable of much of anything organized, unfortunately.
 

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If I shot anyone down, I sincerely apologize. I was simply saying why it did not work for me.

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No need! I certainly didn't take it that way. In fact, I prefer someone who will take a stance to someone who is always shifting around! (easier to hit them )

One of the problems with traditional mind mapping is that it is often taught on paper. Big mistake. It is best applied on a computer using software such as I use (Mindmanager), or by using the Post-It(TM) notes method of writing the concepts on 'yellow stickys' and placing them on a wall.

Not being able to quickly and easily move an idea from one branch to another drives many people up the wall, and causes them to fall out of the creative flow. In the software you can quickly and easily detach and move a branch and re-atttach it elsewhere. On a bulletin board or your cubicle wall, you can just lift off a Post-It(TM)note from 'here' and re-place it 'there'.

In fact, this last is probably the best way to do it, for writers. You could also use 3x5 notecards and write followup notes or more detail on the back, and then after brainstorming with the notecards, file them neatly away. I do that also.

No one way works for everyone, nor should it. However, everyone should find a way to brainstorm that works for them.

And now, I'll step down off my soapbox and go get a beer.

[EDIT]

Er, it's me again. Go here to see some info and an example that I made using mindmapping techniques and software: http://www.munsil.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=187

mm

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited March 11, 2005).]
 

O'no… I wasn't shooting anybody down… I was simply lashing out at the traumatizing memories that mind-mapping has created…
 

I know I don't catch every time someone might react in a way that could hurt someone else's feelings, but when I do catch a post that is potentially unhelpful, I speak up, just in case.

I hope that my doing so may have helped to encourage a bit more discussion of the pros and cons of mindmapping which led to Mike's mentioning the post-it idea.

I see that as helpful discussion because you all found a way to adapt something that didn't work for someone into a way that might make it work.

Way to go, y'all.
 

The mindmapping method is a brainstorming tool. It sidesteps the problems inherent in making lists or working in a serial manner. It encourages recall of key items by tying into your ability to associate items with graphics and colors. etc

It isn't meant to depict a flow of events or a path to a goal. It IS meant to allow you to capture ideas and link them one to another in a free-form way.

When freed of the limitations of drawing on paper, it can become quite powerful. I started using Mind Manager when I found myself in a position in which I was responsible for creating workplans and writing proposals for work that no one in my group had ever done before. By using the software, I was able to cut the time I spent by a minimum of 25%.

In writing, I find it useful to map out ideas about a character, to map out potential ideas for a plot, for a scene, etc. Please note that I use 'map out' in the sense of creating ideas and lumping them together into categories, and not mapping out in terms of a chronology.

In the software I can click on an element of the mindmap and bring up a notepad to write in, a brief scene, a few words, etc. After creating the mindmap, I can, if I wish, and with just a few mouseclicks, create an outlined Word file with all the mindmap elements and any text that I added as notes. Or, if I wish, I can create a hyperlinked, menu-driven website just as quickly and easily.

So, for me, the software works well.

Another method that I often use, when I am trying to teach my clients some brainstorming techniques, it to use Post-it(TM) notes on a wall. It is quick, cheap and easy.

Again, for writing, my opinion is that this technique is useful for brainstorming and arranging items into loose associations, not for outlining a plot.

Hope this helps.

mm