All right, begin rant: In my opinion, not bothering to reply after someone took (usually) considerable time and effort to read and crit a story you wrote is an egregious affront to the process of critiquing.
You, the author, don't have to agree or even like what the critiquer said, but failing to reply afterward is pathetically inappropriate. It is (again my opinion) the epitome of rudeness. And when it happens to me, I make a mental note about it, and then decide accordingly from there if you are worth my time. Chances are, those that don't reply, aren't worth it, and (more opinion) rather selfish.
How hard is it for a simple 'thank you'? You know? You're getting free flippin' help, folks. A 'thank you' -- or at the very least a reply -- costs nothing, and will brighten the day of the person who critiqued your story.
Please, be considerate of those who have your best interests at heart, or you will discover many of us won't be interested in you at all.
End rant.
Of course now you've got me paranoid wondering if I've forgotten anyone...
For this reason, I never say anything BUT thanks, except I may ask for clarification. One critiquer recently said he wanted more, as in, he wanted to know what I agreed with. I answered, reluctantly, because I so much don't want to argue with someone who did me a favor.
I don't get bothered if someone doesn't say thanks after the critique, though -- I don't even notice. Once I sent it off, it's out of sight and out of mind.
[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited March 27, 2005).]
A "thank you" is polite....
By the way, did you tweak Ouroboros in Three in time for your class? I've been wondering about that and how you handled it... or even if you bothered to rewrite it and left it alone. Don't leave me in the dark, Jer...
On the flip side, while argueing is never appropriate, engaging in dialogue about the story is perfectly appropriate. There's nothing wrong with asking a critiquer to expand on an issue or clarify a point.
Had I not done that, I would not have realized that one of my characters (George in "Steel Love") could stand a little more development. A few critiquers had said they didn't care about the characters. Okay, I said, fine... one of them you shouldn't care much about, but WHY didn't you care about the other? Help me understand what's wrong with this particular character. Telling me is one thing. Clarifying is another.
Luckily, everyone replied, thus helping me see that Georgie is a bit too easily seduced by the dark side. So, thanks guys, for taking the time to go above and beyond the usual crit.
Seems like the professor was impressed, enough so that he said I could do a science fiction story for my next workshop piece when I asked. Speculative fiction is usually discouraged in the class, but he said that going from my previous work, he had confidence that I'd be able to "write it well enough to make it acceptable". So my next piece is due in early April, and when I finish it, I'll probably ask some of the (ridiculously forgiving) folks here to give it a look. (I say ridiculously forgiving since I've been incredibly unreliable in getting back to people with critiques this semester, and I have no reason to expect that people would be willing to critique my stuff.) If you're interested, I'd love it if you could take a look. You're a phenomenal critiquer. I promise that it's less confusing than Ouroboros. It's more like the Eddy in regards to character and plot.
If you'd like to see how Ouroboros ended up, I'll send you the most recent draft after Tuesday when I meet with the prof to get my grade on the story and his critique of my rewrite. Let me know!
[This message has been edited by Jeraliey (edited March 27, 2005).]
Or perhaps I'm just a bit bitter, since my own creative writing professor seems to have it in for all speculative fiction. But I'm starting to be convinced that Wendell might not be just an assignment--I think I could get it published, if I changed the ending to the one I originally wanted. And when that happens, I can send her a copy and say ! Except I'm not that petty, so I'd just think it at her. Real hard.
Heresy
quote:
One critiquer recently said he wanted more, as in, he wanted to know what I agreed with.
While I can understand a critiquer wanting to know if the critique was helpful or not, it isn't necessary to go down the list of comments and point at which you agreed with and which you disagreed with.
So, I hereby officially give everyone my permission to say nothing more than "Thank you for your help" in response to a critique, as long as you do respond to a critique.
If they ask for more than that and you are uncomfortable saying more, you can tell them that you need time to assimilate their comments, and say, "Thank you for your help" again.
Okay?
I sent out my story almost a month ago to two different people who OFFERED to critique it for me. Neither one ever bothered to reply, not even something along the lines of "Oh, sorry, don't have time after all." A complete absence of a reply is much worse than being told "oh, hey, I didn't like it."
I consider that equally rude and I'm certainly not going to waste any time or effort doing crits for them. Even on the board.
BTW, when I've critiqued something, nobody has ever forgotten to thank me, so I don't have any problems on that end. Actually, people have generally been very polite.
Here's the thing I've discovered: Some people forget that they have your critique. If you don't hear from them in a week, which is a fair amount of time to allow, then email them and ask what's up, slacker?
However, some newer people mistake the F&F board as a source of "free stories"... possibly... I don't know. I once emailed some guy (he's no longer here) and asked if he received my story and could he reply to let me know what he thought about it. He never emailed me back. So, I sent him an invoice for $1.00: a fair price, I believed, for reading and possessing my story. Still haven't heard back from him. What a goit!
A typical situation for me is this: Eight people offer to crit a story. 4 or 5 them actually do. Which is the right amount of crits for me anyway. Any more than that and it's too confusing. Maybe real life gets in the way, or maybe they just forgot as I already said. I've learned not to worry too much about it. Yet if I ever see my story printed somewhere without permission or plagiarized, I will hunt down the person(s) responsible and pull out their toenails with a spoon.
Kathleen, I did answer the critiquer's "how were my comments" question, and since it was a sane individual, it worked out ok! But I'll tell all potential critiquers now: what I want from you is your _reactions_, not so much your suggestions (although I'll take them too), and your _reactions_ are never wrong. They are always valuable to me, because they tell me how a reader took what I was saying.
OSC's view is that there are 3 reactions to look out for:
* Huh? (not understanding)
* Oh, yeah? (not believing)
* So? (not caring)
I'll add that I also like to hear: cool!
So if you don't get that the monster is inside the cabin . . . that's the main thing I want to know. You can suggest how I can make that clear, and I'll consider it, but as helpful as that can be, the main value for me is in knowing your reaction. This is why I really don't care if my critiquer is a writer or not. We're all readers!
...and by the same reasoning, there are no stupid reactions. It's what you felt. You're a reader. There are bound to be others out there who will feel the same thing, and they're my market!
quote:
A spoon because it will take longer than using a pair of pliers
lol. And I wondered why you were evil when Mary was trapped in Iceland.
Or was it Dallas?
I don't know about anyone else, but I generally dive into revisions shortly after I get the bulk of the crits back. So a critique that arrives a week later is sometimes about a story that has completely changed.
[Edited to add] I always feel really bad about the ones that I don't crit. If I don't send you a crit but offered, feel free to prod me.
[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited March 29, 2005).]
So if I ever offer to crit something of yours, and never do, I'M SORRY! One of these days, I'm going to get a new computer, or something, and hopefully I won't have that problem any more.
And same goes for me as for MaryRobinette: if I don't send you a crit but offered, by all means, yell at me until I do! I swear, it wasn't out of malice or anything. It was out of a stupid POS computer.
Mary, Jaina: No, it wasn't either of you. (Although your comments may have been more directed generally, and not at me specifically.)
I try to give people at least a week, but I suppose I could try prodding them. I try to do same-day critiquing, myself, because I know it makes people anxious to not hear back.
And if anyone cares, when I put something up, and you critique it, and don't like it, it's OK to just say "I don't get it." At least that way I know you've read it. I won't throw a hissy fit. Promise.
My email programs do, however, but they've never stopped personal data from going out -- but if they did, they would probably bring up a dialog box to say "Hey! You're sending out your SSN, debit card # and PIN, you idiot! Do you want to continue?"
That said, Google's gmail I find to be a bit tetchy over what files it likes and what it doesn't like. For instance, it will search through a .zip file and seek out any executable code, and then reject the email from going out. Additionally, if anyone tries to send anything to me with an executable attached (even zipped), it returns it to sender with a semi-cryptic message in reply. This is crap.
And I'm really torn, because I hate Hotmail and Microsoft, and I don't want to support them any longer. And yet, gmail has that stupid no .exe (and other files) rule. Grr. Double grr.
Grrr!
quote:
How do you feel about yahoo?
Not chuffed with their email -- at least two years ago. Found it unnecessarily awkward. By the way, I have an ISP account, but I don't give that out to anyone... I use it sparingly and only when hotmail goes down.
Of course, just the other day I was sitting furiously typing my hotmail log on information into the sign in page at yahoo There's a downside to interfaces being too similar (and to being as dumb as I sometimes can be).
Thanks.
Now, if I could only discover how to dump all of my saved emails from Hotmail in one big go... Hmm...
Anyway, thanks for the recommendation.
Of course, it isn't like I don't have my own evil designs.
I just mentioned yahoo because I think there're deliberately placing themselves to compete against G-mail. Which is a good thing, even if it's occasionally amusing
it helps that i use solid archiving: only the archive exists, there is no reference to what is contained inside until you decompress it.
if you don't use it yet, try getting 7zip. you can make solid archive zips, since those are what are more widely used and accepted... although i really recommend that you give the 7z format a try... i have even gotten compressed MOVIES and MP3'S to compress down to at least 3/4ths original size!
you can also try to make a compromise and use RAR, which is more widely used than 7z, but less than ZIP...
but anyways, enough rambling, 7zip can be downloaded at, i believe, 7-zip.org... it may be something slightly different though, just type 7 zip in a google search
Errm... HSO, I'm not on your bad side, am I?
[This message has been edited by Jaina (edited April 02, 2005).]
Anyway, I'm not so bad... once you get to know me.
dpatridge, thanks for the heads up on that compression program. I've got 3 installed already... I suppose a fourth wouldn't hurt.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited April 02, 2005).]