Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Um, this is not good.

This is topic Um, this is not good. in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :

I think I've lost faith in my WIP, a novel that I've started and scrapped at least 25 times. I mean, I think it's a good story and a good idea, but I don't think I can write it in a way that's interesting and engaging. It sucks because it's a 10-year story, and I believe people would like it.

I just don't think I can tell it.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

I have been tempted to feel that way about my own WIP, an idea that I first got when I was 13 and began to flesh out in 1998. Last fall I wrote 40k of it, before realizing how hopeless it was, and how unable I was to convey my vision to the reader.

Perhaps it would help to do what I have chosen to do; set it aside for a time. I have since been writing a bunch of short stories and have learned a lot about plots, which have always been my weakest area. I still don't feel that I can tackle a project as complex as my novel will be, but I haven't given up. Some day soon (hopefully within the next six months) I will pick it up again and start over. Until then I am doing my best to prepare myself.

I wouldn't give up, necessarily. Just put it aside. If, years from now, you find you have never picked it up again, so be it. But perhaps you just need some breathing room and to do something fresh and new, and in the future you will come back to this with a new perspective and armed to take on the challenge once more.

Posted by TheoPhileo (Member # 1914) on :

Is it more than you feel you are ready for as a writer? If so, wait until you've finished some more books. OSC has said he wasn't mature enough as a writer to do Xenocide when he first tried to start it (before he wrote Ender's Game). I've got a novel series that I have on hold for the same reason; it's just too much and I'm too young as a writer. I dabble with it every now and then, but always wind up going off to other works.

[This message has been edited by TheoPhileo (edited June 16, 2005).]

Posted by yanos (Member # 1831) on :

I have a similar problem. My book does not live up to my vision. You could try to look at the story from a different angle. Perhaps you have concentrated too much energy on portraying characters rather than plot, or plot rather than characters. See if you can break down what your story is about, and the motives of the different characters.

I'm planning on doing that this weekend as we are flash free. I know where it is lacking, but fixing it is harder. The difference between fixing a short and a novel is like the difference between fixing a lawn mower and a fighter jet.

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

When I wrote my first novel, which is a story I'm still interested in, it had such irredeemable plot problems that I filed it.

Since then, I've pulled a scene out and revamped it into a short story that just placed in the quarter finals of WOTF. Not great, but it's in action.

The main character, who I love, I pulled out, gave her a new name and dropped her into a new mileau. The story that I wanted to tell, is there even though the plot has completely changed. That's the story I just sold to All-Star Stories:Twenty Epics.

So, even if you put it away, the parts that you love will still live later.

Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :

Might I remind you, dear Jer, that we are in competition to get our WIPs out there. The Hudson name is at stake.

Anyway, if that's not enough to keep you writing it, then maybe you need a good kick in the pants. Send me your first chapter should you require such a kick.

[This message has been edited by HSO (edited June 16, 2005).]

Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :

I concur with MaryRobinette.
I lost faith in my WIP (mostly because although there were likeable parts, I had moved beyond the story). I salvaged what I could, made it into a short story, and then into a second one. Both placed in quarter finals of WOTF.
So there's still life in there, don't worry

Edited for a mental note to self: I seem to have pierced the secret of smileys, this is the first time since I joined this board that they actually insert themselves in my posts.

[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited June 16, 2005).]

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Allow me to come at this from the other direction. What I'm about to write next is meant to encourage you, not discourage. Understand that.

I got the idea for my WIP almost twenty-five years ago (that fact alone astounds me since I'm only twenty-three at heart ). I basically had only a scene, but I knew I could do something with it. I fiddled with it, put it away, fiddled with it, put it away, wrote a completely different book and assorted miscellaneous writings, took out the isolated scene from time to time over the years and managed to write a few chapters, but always put it away thinking, "I can do something with this." Three years ago I finally did. Wrote the draft in nine months.

Sometimes, I guess, we get ideas before their proper time, or maybe some ideas just need some really long "brewing" time. Put your hand to something else and see what happens over time. Hopefully, it won't be twenty-five years for you, but even if it is, I have to say that when it finally comes together, it's an incredible feeling.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

About writing: give up on it. Give up on being a writer. If you can't stop, you're a writer!

About the WIP: if you can't fix it now, maybe you should set it aside for now, as the others have said. 25 starts is a lot! It might be fun to try something else for a while.

[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited June 16, 2005).]

Posted by bladeofwords (Member # 2132) on :

I have a similar problem, I periodically shelve things but when I come back to work on them they seem so unbearably bad to me that I don't even know where to start. I try to just take that as a sign that I'm growing as a writer and move on.

I was just thinking about this earlier. I have a novel that I've been working on in some for or another for almost four years (not very long compared to some of you, but that's how long I've been seriously writing). I'll work on something else for a while, but I always come back to it. I don't want to admit to myself that I'm not ready to write it, because I can hardly bear the thought of waiting.

Are you just supposed to shelve all your best ideas until you feel that you are able to write them? That sounds dangerous to me. I suppose that is sort of changing the subject though.

On the topic of losing faith, I agree with most other people, give it a break. Everyday life will probably breath some more life into it, and if not, maybe it wasn't meant to be. However, I doubt that you'll be able to just set it aside forever.

Jon

Edit: It took King 16 years to write the first book in the dark tower series and another 22 to finish the story. I suppose that some epics are just meant to wait.

[This message has been edited by bladeofwords (edited June 16, 2005).]

Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :

Sound advice, all of it. However, here are some more details of my situation that have been concerning me. It's actually been a year since I last did any meaningful work on my WIP. I think about it all the time, but I turned my actual BIC time to short stories. What I'm saying is that I think I've had a break already. And the shorts have been fun and completely different from anything I've ever done before, but they're not necessarily what I really WANT to write. (That's not to say I haven't had HUGE fun with them...)

My big problem with setting it aside and taking more time away is that very soon, my life will get in the way of writing. I plan on starting medical school a year from now, so from my perspective, that basically means that I have a year left to me to write. I feel like if I don't write this thing now, I will never get around to it. And that makes me a little sad.

So I think I'm going to try again. It's pretty daunting, but I really love thinking about it and messing around with it.

HSO, give me a couple of days and I might take you up on your generous offer. Although in my current funk, I'm half-tempted to say that you can keep the name without winning our race. On the other hand, our little deal has me thinking that I should get my rear in gear! I guess I'm just competitive like that.

(Oh, fun news from the world of Jeraliey involving competition: I just qualified for the Empire State Games in fencing. I'll be competing off-handed, since I injured my weapon hand. [For me, that means I've turned briefly into a lefty. I don't see how lefties can do ANYTHING, though! Off-hand training is tough!])

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

Rule 1: Never throw ANYTHING you've written away. Come back to it sometime and you may find a fresh view of it. I've got stuff that dates back in effect to the mid-80s (yes, I am old, thank you), some of which now reads like the source material from Diana Wynne Jones' "Tough Guide to Fantasyland" (highly recommended, BTW, for cliche avoidance) but some elements of which are still usable. If one work isn't happening, find something else. I find my work definitely goes in phases, usually of between two to six weeks; I'll work on one piece but then I "lose" the mood for that; so I go on to another one, and there's always something out there that I can find intrigues me.

Mind you, this may be why I've got twenty or so unfinished novels, so take what I say with a pinch of salt...

Posted by TheoPhileo (Member # 1914) on :

I'm with tchernabyelo (there's got to be a way to abbreviate that...). I have nearly a dozen stories brewing right now, each at a different level of maturity. Sometimes they need the time on the back burner before they can truly come to life.

It's also refreshing to be able to spend your BIC time on whichever story suits your mood on any given day, without feeling compelled to finish one story. I can't ever finish something if I feel I *must*. This is why I never finished an assigned novel in school, though I'll read a book a week when left to my own devices.

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

Abbreviate it to "Teach" or 'Substitute Teacher'

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited June 16, 2005).]

Posted by Void (Member # 2567) on :

quote:
I think it's a good story and a good idea, but I don't think I can write it in a way that's interesting and engaging

You haven't lost faith in your WIP; you've lost faith in yourself. Why don't you think you can write this?

Posted by franc li (Member # 3850) on :

I'm having a tired day. I think I'd better not make any such decisions about my WIP until I'm done working full time- which I'm doing temporarily without health benefits or paid holidays. I also have some major presentations coming up. One is about writing and addiction recovery.

But what if your addiction is to writing?

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

My first novel was a story I really didn't like when I started. I slogged through the parts I didn't like, and when I finished, it was far easier to fix than it was to write.

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

I would agree that you probably need to put it on hold. 25 false starts is too many.

But I also agree with Spaceman. The next time you start it, you must finish it, regardless of how bad you think it is. If partway through you realize that you should have started differently, make notes of the changes, and continue to write as if you had actually started the new way. But don't go back and rewrite until you've finished--because, until you get to the end, you really won't know how you should have started. And the way you're doing it now, you'll never reach the end.

You're right, it's going to be difficult to do this in med school--or even after med school, for at least a while. But you know what? Even if you're halfway through, and you get interrupted for, say, twenty-three years (just pulling numbers out of a hat, that's NOT supposed to be a prediction), when you come back to it, read what you've already got, make notes on any changes you think appropriate, and start writing again right from the middle.

In fact, if you're not willing to put it away now, you should still do it this way. Don't restart even one more time. Pick whichever of the 25 starts you like best, and just slog through what comes next. The beginning isn't your problem. You don't break through a brick wall by running up to it from different angles. You've got to stand there and hit it with a sledgehammer until you've made a hole. Once you've done that, and gone through and seen where you end up--then you can decide which approach to the hole will get you to your final destination in the most effective, interesting manner.

Posted by Monolith (Member # 2034) on :

I guess I'm in the same boat as you are Jer, I have redone all three of my stories countless times.

I haven't done any major rewriting in a while, but I do go through them and add things where I think they should be, and take away things that shouldn't be there.

I usually work diligently on one for about 2-3 days, then go on to the next one and then onto the last one. I do this over and over.

I agree with everybody on this one, put it aside and try again when you feel like you can tell it the way you want to.

I always think of different ways to tell all 3 of mine, but I'm just going with what I have for now, until someone tells me otherwise.

Enough rambling for me, I'm now returning you to your normal forum.

-Monolith-

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

Feel free to abbreviate me. Either "tcherna" or "byelo" would appear perfectly acceptable, depending how you see me...