I'd normally recommend that if a story is unfinished then finish it and then ask for crits. If you're unsure about your start, change it after you've finished. Don't get hooked up on the beginning. Sometimes I think that experience here helps as much as other people's opinions. The more stories you write and finish the more likely you are to know yourself what works or doesn't.
Just my unhumble opinion of course.
If you spend your time doing that, chances are you're not finishing any stories.
Just a hunch.
[This message has been edited by TL 601 (edited August 19, 2005).]
On the other hand, I've never found a critique of the first 13 lines of my novel remotely useful. The first 13 lines of a short story needs to hook. The first thirteen lines of a novel needs to start something, but you have a couple of pages to hook.
For a novel I'm still unsure. It takes so much momentum to finish a novel why would you want to maybe put a kink in it? I let my husband just check to make sure I'm making sense and keep going. The most aggravating thing to me is spending hours and hours and then saying, well I'll come back to it later. Who are we kidding when we say that? Positive feedback is great for a push, but too much negative and you're screeching to a hault.
I guess critiques for the first part of an unfinished novel might be helpful, but I think I'd be unwilling to do that. When a novel is finished, the begining tends to change a lot...at least, that's how I write. A critique wouldn't do me any good until I've done everything on the piece that I knew how to do.
I haven't really seen the area used this way, but I wanted it to be possible for someone to post something along the lines of "here are my first 13 lines, and I have taken the story to the point where thus and such has happened, but I don't know what to do to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion--suggestions would be greatly appreciated."
I believe brainstorming story fragments ought to be an option at a writing workshop.
Overall, I don't see any problem with it unless the person posting is blatantly trying to get others to write the story for them (I saw one like that once and only once on F&F).
Mainly to get some VERY general feedback on my success to that point on characterization, or believability, or the reader understanding the plot twists. Mary actually read a frag for me at Boot Camp. I needed to know if she understood what had happened to a certain character and why.
FETCH! That was FUN! Geez! How could you get any better than to have Mary Robinette sitting across a table from you to bounce thoughts off of!
But like Keeley said, it's EXTREMELY bad form to post and expect others to write your story for you.
For me, I know exactly what stories I'm going to work on, and in what order, though sometimes I work on fragments of stories that are "on deck" whenever I have a few minutes.
But, I have to agree somewhat with the sentiment that it's pointless to post the first thirteen lines when it's all you've got. I don't think that anyone has to have gone through any great labor in writing before asking for help. But I do think that it is better to sit down and work on a story for at least one writing session before stopping and asking for directions.
If you're only writing thirteen lines in a writing session, then you need to figure out a way to write a lot more per session. You could try longer sessions, or write a little faster. I don't mind giving feedback on something in which the writer has only invested about five minutes of writing. But I think that if you don't feel impelled to write more than 13 lines at a time, there's something wrong with either your story idea, your language skills, or your writing habits.
If you're interested in the story, and you are reasonably competent at the simple mechanics of written language (including actually typing it into your computer or whatever), and you're doing BIC to any meaningful degree, then you'd never write only thirteen lines. You might write a couple of pages and then wonder where the heck your story is going (I've done that a lot), but you'll still have more than thirteen lines.
Why not let someone help you with those? There are various reasons. I started writing a scene where my character starts figuring out where "orks" come from, and I had to stop writing it because it was kinda sick in a lot of ways. But it isn't like I would've posted the first thirteen and thought that anyone could help me fix the parts I wasn't sending anyone.
So I'm sure that there probably isn't a good reason to post a fragment when that's all you've written. That indicates that you have a problem that we can't solve for you, either you're unwilling to write (or let anyone see) any more than that for some reason, or you haven't learned how to write more than that per...let's say day. One writing session per day sounds reasonable, though really it varies, some people only get a couple of sessions a week, some use a couple of sessions every day. Anyway, either of those are things that the other forum members can't really fix.
One of two things usually happens to me. Either, in explaining how the story will go, I lose the drive to write it. Or, someone will ride so roughshod over me with their own idea of how my story should go, that I feel reluctant to go back to it. So, I usually keep them to myself until they're finished .
I have been surprised by how many people post fragments from unfinished stories here, and have had my doubts about how useful it is. But if they do find it useful, I don't see that there's anything wrong with it. People offering critique only have to input as much or as little as they choose. If you don't want to finish the story for someone, then don't .
Seems to me that there are two types of writers posting fragments: those that write for others and those that write for themselves (I know, another thread). Personally, whether I've written 5 paragraphs or 500, I write for me first. The critiques provide all the benefits already mentioned but I'd never let "bad" ones stop me from writing my story. I'd think real hard before considering to submit it - maybe it's not fully baked and needs to sit on the shelf awhile.
Be fair to yourself. Just because you weren't able to put out a perfect opening on your first try at a new style/voice, that doesn't mean that you won't begin to do better if you invest at least a full session working on it. Write out a page or two, get the feel of what your doing. Then you can go back to the opening, give it a few tweaks to apply anything you've learned, and see if the result generates a favorable reaction.
Like I said, though, it isn't any of my business whether another writer has written more than the first thirteen lines if all that person asks for is feedback on the first thirteen. I just think that writing only thirteen lines isn't a good way to jump into a new work. It makes it too hard to really gather your momentum.
Then again, I don't bother with a writing session unless I have enough time to write a couple of pages and save them. That sometimes means I go a while without working on my fiction. Sometimes I sacrifice writing time so that I can read something. So in a lot of ways I advocate different habits from some of those embraced by other writers. Not all advice works for all writers, even though I think that writing more than 13 lines of a story when you start writing it is necessary, it might not be for everyone.
quote:
"Write the first draft with the door closed, then open the door.
The questions I'm now going to ask are:
"Do you want this story to be yours or a collaborative effort?"
"If you have limited writing time, why waste it on a story you have not full organised in your head yet."
I rarely offer advice, but I know what works for me. Sit down and finish it. It may take a week, a month, a year. but once it's done then you can play with tone, characterisation, first 13 etc... You don't want to spend time in a rewrite? Then I hope this is a hobby for you.
quote:
Hmm, everytime I pull something out of my butt it turns into a poem. Not sure why, I don't like poetry.
LOL!!
So is that what I'm missing? I'm trying to pull my inspiration out of the wrong orifice?