Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Fidgeting Phrases and Obnoxious Echoes

This is topic Fidgeting Phrases and Obnoxious Echoes in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Varishta (Member # 2789) on :

When writing a long novel, do you sometimes fall into a repetitious writing pattern that drives you crazy? In a short story it's not a big deal, but now that I'm getting further and further into a longer piece, I find myself doing some strange things.

Take character behavior during dialog: most of the time, "he said/she said" does the job, but for whatever reason my characters keep, well, fidgeting.

For example -- this whole week they've been using their eyeballs at each other like crazy:

quote:
"He looked away" "He closed his eyes." "She blinked." "Her eyes widened." "He looked at the ceiling."

I'm also running into a lot of descriptions of the sun:

quote:
"The sun beat down..." "The sun's warmth..." "The sun reached its zenith..."

Aaagh, it's terrible!

I suppose this sort of repeating happens to most writers at one time or another, but it is rather annoying to have to go back every other page and weed these copycats out.

Any suggestions, or do I just have to focus more?

[This message has been edited by Varishta (edited August 20, 2005).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I have it bad in my novel...I finally found a way to explain a supernatural phenomenon but now everytime it happens, I phrase it the same way because that's my anology. If I use the words warmth, invigorated, or light again my head may come off and start spinning.

But I think this is one of those things that can be polished up in an edit...not even a rewrite. Just write what you feel and when it's time to run a fine comb through the language, scrutnize every usage of these phrases to determine how necessary it is, and whether you can phrase it differently.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

What Christine said, Varishta.

Let yourself be bad in the first draft. Get it on the paper any way you can.

It may make you crazy to go back and clean it all up, but at least you have a finished work to clean up.

Also, if you like, you can have the characters notice that they're doing the eye-rolling thing and call each other on it. Make it a humorous part of the story, even.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I become aware of phrasing something exactly the same way, and change one of the times. I hope there arne't others I'm unaware of!

Posted by cvgurau (Member # 1345) on :

I've found that in my stories, my characters either frown or arc an eyebrow. Not all the time, not exclusively, but more often than not, if Mark is shocked, or disturbed, or surprised, he frowns, or arcs an eyebrow.

Posted by Varishta (Member # 2789) on :

Christine -- "my head may come off..."

I think I could obsess forever about editing. That's why I couldn't get anywhere before; I'd take a week or longer just to finish half a page! This is the first time I've written without polishing to perfection as I go, and it's a tad unnerving.

Kathleen -- Unfortunately, they're doing this in a rather serious scene(!) But yeah, I'll "look" into using this to my advantage later on. Thanks for the encouragement to just write and get it done.

wbriggs -- Watch out: they can sneak up on you like a submerged hippo...

cy -- The dreaded arched eyebrow!

[This message has been edited by Varishta (edited August 20, 2005).]

Posted by Miriel (Member # 2719) on :

Something that helps me...

Someone once gave me the advice to pretend that I wasn't writing a novel -- that I was just playing with words. If you're just "playing with words," why, it doesn't have to be any good. It's not like it's a novel or anything. But then, 80,000 words later, I had something that looked suspiciously like a first draft...

I don't know if this would work for you, but it is what keeps me from over-editing and revising as a go along. I know it's just a mind game, but it works for me. If I'm "playing with words," I also only write the scenes that I'm interested in, instead of the ones that "need to be there for plot." And then I enjoy writing, and don't mind that it's very bad. Then I can go back and revise, and make it a novel.

Posted by Mechwarrior (Member # 2796) on :

Some repetitious character behavior is good, if you're consistent. Everyone has personality quirks that manifest in physical behavior and their speech. This can make your characters distinct and memorable. Think of how comedians imitate celebrities - they play on their quirks.

But sometimes as a writer it does get out of hand and the characters turn into clockwork robots.

Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :

My first novel, it was the phrase "all right." It was everywhere! Easy enough to whack out in the next version; don't worry about it now.

Posted by RobertM on :

Oh man, I hate this, too. Happens to me all the time, and sometimes I don't even notice, at least not until I get a review: "Loved the story. Really gripping, great characters, too. But what was with all the grimacing and shrugging? Were they sick or something and I just missed it?"

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

In my first novel, all the characters always "began" or "started" to do something. I wiped most of them out on edit.

Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :

In mine they kept "shivering" and "staring". I edited afterwards.
I think the advice of "playing with words" is sound. Don't think of a novel; think of something like "getting the characters from point A to point B" (although I'll never do that again, because the end result was way too messy. It did produce 200,000 words though), or "playing with words", or that you're doing it just for yourself.

Posted by Jon Roberts (Member # 2804) on :

On the issue of "doing it just for yourself": After talking to a friend and doing some thinking I have come to the conclusion that even if some day I want to make it big or even just get published it doesn't matter, because the amount of effort that goes into writing means that if I'm not doing it "just for myself" it's not practical. That's supposing that I eventually get published, about which I have no illusions.

Spaceman, I'm in the same boat. Somebody was "beginning" something every third sentence. It's amazing that anything was ever finished in that world.

Jon

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

A lot of my characters pause. " '[stretch of dialog.] He paused. '[another stretch of dialog.']" I try to deal with it in rewrite.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

My writing is filled with passive voice.

As Vicki Hinze says in the Fiction Factor article "The Reason Editors Reject Manuscripts" by http://www.fictionfactor.com/guests/reject.html

quote:
Some watchwords are: thought, wondered, considered, hoped, realized.

I have a LOT to do on the rewrite to extract the passivity.

In published works, I HATE Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time portrayal of one character tugging her braid all the time. My son assures me that by book 'leventy-hundred in the series, she ceases to do that and it shows her character development. I recall another author using the phrase "she stood with her arms akimbo until I wanted to gag.
I say it's bad writing to overuse a character trait to the point that the reader wants to choke!

Posted by dpatridge (Member # 2208) on :

Jon and Spaceman: Maybe we three should collaborate, my characters love finishing things, but they refuse to get started.

Anyways... Move along folks, I had absolutely nothing worthwhile to contribute to this thread, just thought I'd make a joke out of my characters refusal to get off their lazy collective bum and progress my novel. They really DO love finishing things, so they can get back in time to do whatever it is folks do in the year 3015. They just don't like to get going again when it's time to get back to work.

You people think sports are still a popular past-time in 3015? Maybe they want to make it back in time for Sunday night football.

Posted by MCameron (Member # 2391) on :

quote:
I recall another author using the phrase "she stood with her arms akimbo" until I wanted to gag.

Terry Brooks?

--Mel

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Read a book series recently in which the characters did a lot of lip biting while they were thinking. I had to wonder why no editor caught it, since it was so painfully obvious to me. (No, that's not a pun.

)

Posted by Mechwarrior (Member # 2796) on :

Just wanted to say the link Elan provided rocks!

I realized I use a recognized flaw when I put tags on my internal dialogue.

Posted by Isaiah13 (Member # 2283) on :

The First King of Shannara -- Terry Brooks

"in spite of himself."
He laughed in spite of himself.
He smiled in spite of himself.

Over and over and over. I swear, it's the only thing I even remember from that book.

Posted by Creativity Rising (Member # 2666) on :

Something that has helped me deal with this problem... actually not deal with it, but ignore until the editing stage:

The traditional daily word count goal. For my fiction, I have to type out 1,000 words each day (6 days a week, thus 24,000 words a month). And since I'm always on a tight schedule, and it seems work is always piling up around me, I've learned to hit 1,000 words in 30 to 40 minutes (I used short-cut keys for common words, and have a good typing speed which helps--but mainly because I just don't look back!).

It also helps that I can't have breakfast till I get 1,000 words clocked. Plus I have a good eppetite so this is a definite motivator (though I do allow myself juice as hunger can be a nasty distraction). This considering I my morning responsibilities don't even allow me to sit at the computer until 7 a.m. (after waking at 5).

I also try not to look at the screen too much. I used to turn the monitor off for rough drafts but this had two problems:

1. I might accidently hit the alt key and go into the pull down menus and end up who knows where doing who knows what. Once I spent 20 minutes typing nothing because I was stuck in the printer menu and didn't know it.

2. I like the spell check feature. When I see a red line I go back and retype the word. This has helped my spelling impove.

So what I do is just reduce the font size enough that I can't clearly read anything unless I lean forward (i.e. when I see a red line).

Anyways, hitting that 1,000 mark each morning has been a daily journey of discovery. Lots of great stuff comes out. I bet 50% of it will be thrown away, but I can take the good stuff out and flesh it out later.

It also gives me freedom to write all that I'm not sure will turn out (And when it doesn't, it doesn't matter).

Which brings up another point. I find if I'm editing everything as I go, and then I decide to get rid of that entire scene, then I wasted a lot of time editing something that I'm not even going to use.

Anyways, I'm hitting 400 words here, and this sin't the place for that, so I better stop (if anybody is still reading).

I'm hoping to up the daily goal to 2,000 words soon, but I'll have to buy the time I think. If I do I might make the other 1,000 a pre-requsite for lunch or something...

In creativity rising,

John

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I've been a four-page-a-day man since I picked up the habit from Frederik Pohl---at least, when I'm actually working regularly on something, which, lately, isn't all that often. I broke a bad spell of writer's block last spring by writing a page a day, and, since then, things have come easier---but not as effortlessly as they once did.

Posted by Paul-girtbooks (Member # 2799) on :

Hi Varishta -

- I mainly just want to echo what Kathleen said regarding simply getting the first draft down on the page. I'm in complete agreement with Stephen King when he said that a first draft should be written in the shortest period of time possible.

In my fifth novel I had 'maybe' and 'perhaps' springing up everywhere like a plague of locust, and although I sometimes went back and scored them out I eventually just said 'To hell with it' and got on with the writing.

First drafts are for story and character; in other words lay the foundation, throw up some bricks and drop a roof on it before it rains - you can do the painting and decorating later. Think of revising as trying to wallpaper before the wall's been built!

Also, Creativity Rising is right: during that vital first draft keep your head down and don't look back!

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

quote:
I've been a four-page-a-day man since I picked up the habit from Frederik Pohl

Anything Pohl says is worth listening to, but I would point out that for me, a page is about 250 words, so it comes out to 1000 words a day in any event.