SCi-fi:

On remote planet, a settlement encounters a problem and send signals off to Earth asking for advice as to how to proceed. They understand that it may take a generation to get a response, however the answer comes almost immediately. It takes the form of a series of strange and counter-intuitve instructions. They are told that it did actually take a generation to get the message but in the meantime the people of earth have figured out how to send data back through time to simulate an almost instant response. It turns out that, as an intermediary, the 'Earth; can send messages back and forth between the settlement and their children 25 years in the future.

But something terrible has occurred in the children's generation and the parent's generation needs to circumvent the effects by taking action prior to the events occurring. The MC's best friends' children turn out to be the the perpetrators of terrible crimes that all but destroy the community. The best friend declares that the messages are phoney and the fun and games commence.

Any holes? Any comments would be great.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 27, 2005).]
 

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 27, 2005).]
 

Figure out how that would work in your writing, and let 'er rip.

The way I figure it, you could alternate chapters between the future and the past, or even half the story/book to either as well.

Figure it out and post it on F&F. I would definitely read it. Sounds very intruiging.

Holes, eh? You asked for it. Whip out the magnifying glass, search for some holes! (Actually, some are not holes so much as they are questions or thoughts.)

As an intermediary, the Earth can send messages to the children in the future? We can already do that now. Just put a letter in an envelope or a time capsule and stick it in a safe deposit box or the ground and let it sit there for 25 years, after which your children will get it. You, however, will receive their response immediately after writing the letter, because they can send things back in time. (Think Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, when they're in the police station at the end.) So I don't see that as 'new' technology. But it sounds like the story hinges on sending messages back in time, not forward.

It sounds like there are two plots - the first is the problem occuring in the parents' generation at the beginning, from which they discover Earth's interesting new technology. The second is the problem occuring in the children's generation. My thought is that it will be hard to devote a story to both problems, but not implausible.

Ok, say an integer sequence represents time. At 5 the parents discover Earth's new time-related technology. Then, at 6 they receive a message from the children about the future problem, which happens at, say, 10. My question: Why does the message from the children come only after the discovery at 5? Why didn't they send the message to 4, or 2? Are the parents not supposed to know about the technology until they re-contact Earth? Is there some reason the message can't arrive until after 5?

If the best friends' children perpetrate the crime, why isn't that dealt with in the children's time? Is the message telling the best friends not to have kids? Why didn't the 'good' children send the message to themselves so they could stop the 'bad' children? Unless the problem is set in motion in the parents' time, getting the parents involved doesn't make sense. Why ask them for help, if the problem doesn't occur for 20 years?

A thought: The minute the folks in the parents' generation learn about this technology, there will be all kinds of people who will want to send things backwards to their parents or themselves. That's a definite reaction that you will have to address.

I am curious about this settlement's relationship with Earth. How did they get there? Are there other settlements? Why does it take so long to get responses (before they learn about the new technology)? It sounds like they don't keep in touch with Earth until there's a problem. Why not? Just some questions.

That's all I can think of now. It's a nice idea, and I think it is definitely plausible, after you answer some of these questions.

[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited November 27, 2005).]
 

[This message has been edited by franc li (edited November 28, 2005).]
 

I am worried about the 'too far for fast communications' thing myself. At the spped of light a two way communication may take 20 years to reach earth and twenty to return. Is 20 Light years too far for colonising? Or alternatively, is it inconceivable that there may be some potentially inhabtable place that close by?

( I smell the foul odour of research in the wind. )

Perhaps these people are used to thinking about distance in terms of generations rather than minutes, or days or years. Is the 'generation ship' idea, too far fetched?

Surely it is better and more cost effective to send a generation ship to a distant inhabitable planet on a journey of 150 years than to terraform a nearby planet over 10,000 years.

Is this colony being the product of a generation ship project a stupid idea? I just don't want to introduce the idea of faster-than-light travel or even near-lightspeed travel. I'd rather make it more like the challenges of discovering and colonising far lands in the 1000's - 1400s. A kind of fatalistic courage.

Think of Marc Polo's father. He left for China on a three year journey but got delayed by wars in the regions he passed through. His journey lasted nine years. In the meantime, his wife died, his son grew up considered an orphan, the trips backers wrote the journey off as a bad investment. There were risks, terrible ones, and there were few who were prepared to take the risks -- but there were a few.

Edit:

luapc: I don't intend to cheat with this story, but thanks for flagging it early. I would, however, like the reader to have a dilemma as to which side they agreed with. Whether to believe and follow instructions that purport to be from the future without absolute proof or to err on the side of caution a risk the consequences.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 28, 2005).]
 

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 28, 2005).]
 

I like the title, but from where I saw 'Janus' used, I'm sorta expecting clones somewhere.

Just my thougths. But couldn't you use clones if the generation ship takes too long to reach the desired planet??

But then what do I know, it's your story.

I'd love to see the begining.
 

quote:

---

I am worried about the 'too far for fast communications' thing myself. At the spped of light a two way communication may take 20 years to reach earth and twenty to return. Is 20 Light years too far for colonising? Or alternatively, is it inconceivable that there may be some potentially inhabtable place that close by?

---

In 'Dune', they folded space to cover huge distances in the universe. What if in your world they stumbled onto some ancient communication device/method that pops a hole through the space-time continuum and can literally broadcast everywhere at the same time because they are no longer subject to time itself. Everything everywhere is instantaneous in that ether-space. (This is starting to sound like some of the elements in my book.)

 

It may just be that this information has to come out of the blue in the normal stream of things.

Or, they get to the planet and it turns out that they need cockroaches and need earth to send them the genome for a cockroach.

[This message has been edited by franc li (edited November 29, 2005).]
 

O Time, thou beautifier of the dead,
{...}
Time, the corrector when our judgments err,
{...}
Time, the avenger! unto thee I lift
My hands and heart and eyes, and claim of thee a gift...

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 29, 2005).]
 

Thanks... I think.

 

Are you familiar with John Titor, by any chance?
 

Perhaps you'd like to touch on a Macbeth-like story, where the MC's friend's children cause the problem because the message from earth was received?

Also-- how does Earth know about the problem? I could see getting a reply earlier than expected (send out a message, expecting to wait 40 years, being pleasantly surprised by the fact that, hey, it only took 20 years to get a response!), but how can the message from earth come before any distress-call was sent from the colony?

Or maybe this is just slipping very quickly over my head. I could be misunderstanding something.

Maybe you'll find some enlightenment in my confusion.

-----------
Wellington

[Edited: because I was being incoherent...]

[This message has been edited by 'Graff (edited November 30, 2005).]
 

In fact that communique now only exists as a memory within the electrical impulses of his brain. So he is, technically, the possessor of a false memory, a confabulation. It really did happen but it also really didn't.

In that eventuality both he--'I've received a message from the future.'--and his friend--'No you didn't you are a mental case' -- prove to be correct .

I am not trying to cheat, just that there would be a history to the flow of energy within his mind. It would become a fragment and as Nietzche might say, not insane, but abandoned to the dionysian aspect of the universe.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited December 02, 2005).]
 

There is a serious problem with the plausibility, because if the message is able to affect the past, then the future from which the message is sent will cease to exist before it can finish sending the message. Card uses that one in Pastwatch. Even if you don't use the same causality model he used, you still have to explain why they aren't constantly being bombarded with messages from potential futures. Sending a message has to be extremely difficult and rare, blah blah blah.

Once you work out the model you're using, the trick is just giving the reader a rewarding story in exchange for suspending disbelief. That's always the core trick.