I think it's called like that at any rate (don't have OSC's book in front of me, so shoot if you want to).
I've noticed something funny. The deeper the penetration, the less I feel inclined to put in the MC's name (you know, like "John took up the gun and killed the sheriff"). I write entire scenes without using the MC's name once, and that's how I know I'm in deep penetration Afterwards, I have to clean up and remind the reader of the MC's name, of course.
Has it happened to anyone else?
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
If a character is alone in a scene or the only significant character, yeah, that happens.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Never had that problem. For me, using third person pronouns or impersonal descriptor tags (the man, the cop, etc.) tend to distance me from the character, whether I'm writing or reading.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
The impersonal descriptor tags do distance me from the character. I almost never use them. But I feel that the MC, whoever he is, never thinks of himself as "John", or "Jack". The use of a name is what distances me from the narrative.
Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
So what do you call yourself?
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I don't Others call me.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
About fifteen pages into my latest attempt at a novel (which is a reworking of earlier attempts, which is another story), I found that I wasn't using my main character's name. It was all "she did this," "she said," "she hesitated," "she paused," (which is also another problem). Good sense reasserted itself, and the next fifteen pages (up to what I last wrote) has the character's name here and there.
I hope to deal with the earlier parts in revision, assuming this attempt lasts long enough to make revision worthwhile...
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
I assumed Silver was using "he" not "the cop"
Stuff like "the cop" would be for characters other than the pov character.
Posted by Leigh (Member # 2901) on :
I admit I do it. Most of the time infact. Well I know now not to do it, and clean up a 57 page story I have been writing lately Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
I suspect that the reason it happens is what Silver was hinting at. I don't think of myself as "MaryRobinette" and when I'm writing really deep 3rd POV, I tend to use "she" and "her" like "I" and "me." I don't worry about it when I'm writing, I just go back and clean it up later.
I also tend to use more fragments the deeper my POV penetration. Again, when I'm doing revisions, I clean up the fragments so only the necessary ones remain.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I'll use personal pronouns in deep penetration, but one thing I try to avoid like the plague is using the word "I" in third person deep penetration, though I will use the word "me."
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I suspect Mary has hit the nail on the head. And yup, the fragments are also a symptom of the whole thing (but they show up in 1st-person as well, as well as in my dialogue when I'm really caught up with the flow).
I can't manage the "I" or "me" in deep third.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
In a sense, what you'd like the audience to do is think of themselves as being the main character. Once that starts to happen, they will respond to the character's name as if it were their own.
Imagine you start reading a story, and quickly realize that the narration contains a bunch of stuff from your life, that it is actually about you, only the names of the characters have all been changed. In that situation, you'll rapidly adapt to the name change, and it will affect you as if it were your name.
Okay, so that doesn't address how to hook the reader in the first place. All I'm saying is that using the character's name doesn't necessarily distance the reader from the character. On the other hand, using a less specific identifier (including pronouns, if you use them where there's any possibility of incorrect reference) doesn't make the reader feel close to the character.
Posted by DeepDreamer (Member # 5337) on :
I've written a couple first drafts of stories exclusively with pronouns or stand-in's like "the boy" or whatnot, when I haven't yet figured out what I want the MC'S name to be. Then as a good rule of thumb, I will use the MC's name anywhere that using "he" or "she" would confuse the MC with another character of the same gender, once at the beginning of any of his or her scenes, and throughout occasionally.
And sometimes I suggest the name rather than use it, just for fun. For example, one scene I wrote recently started something like this:
-=-=- Her traveling cloak swished along the wood panels as she paced the porch, going from the sharp scent of pine on the one end to the faint sweetness of jasmine, her namesake, on the other. -=-=-
When you're reading a story and really into it, it doesn't matter if you're using the character's name or a pronoun. As long as it's not overwhelmingly one or the other, I never notice it. I think the only thing to worry about is whether using the pronoun rather than the name in any particular instance is gonna confuse the reader.
Afterwards, I have to clean up and remind the reader of the MC's name, of course. 