Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Where does it end?

This is topic Where does it end? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Megan (Member # 3360) on :

ok, i'd like some opinions or experinces related on how (or if) to plan the ending to a story. also, i've seen myriads of "how to get started" and "character development" kind of classes or advice, but i haven't seen anything beyond getting started. so if any of you all have seen something like "creating the perfect ending" or "quit eluding the concluding" then lemme know!

Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :

Megan, I think this sort of thing is implied because, once you've established your beginning, you already know what your conflict is. That's generally the hard part to set up. It follows then that your ending is just going to be the resolution of that stated conflict. The trick comes from making it unexpected, but still logical. You want an ending that is satisfying (provides closure to your crisis), but that isn't too predictable (if they see it coming a mile away, it isn't going to be fun).

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Of course, any given beginning can lead to dozens of potential primary conflicts and hundreds of potential resolutions. Also, writers often begin their story without paying much attention to the primary dramatic tension that drives the story.

The basics of planning the end of your story is understanding the main dramatic tension well enough to identify when it has been resolved. It's also the basics of writing a good opening.

Posted by Jammrock (Member # 3293) on :

Endings have always been notoriously difficult for me, and for other writers as well. Take Stephen King. Fantastic author. Sells hundreds of millions of books, movies, scripts, every writer's dream type of stuff. That man can't end a story right to save his live. He gets close from time to time, but usually he draws up this huge climax and then ... bleh.

I don't have any great ideas on the subject beyond "finding closure." Tolkien had what, 7 or 8 endings to the Lord of the Rings. The more common ending techniques I've seen are: 1) step forward in time and give closure to your characters (i.e. how life has changed after the climax of the story, and some sort of happy ending deal), 2) close the story at the immediate conclusion to the climactic scene (i.e. the hero saves the girl and they imbrace, "and they live happily ever after" is simply implied), 3) kill off your MC(s) to the point that it ends the story.

I've used two of the three techniques in my own writing, and as to which type of end is dictated by the feel of the story. I would say just keep writing until you're satisfied there is sufficient closure.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Some of the topics in which the problem of how to end stories has been discussed:

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000293.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000847.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001005.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001308.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001353.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/002062.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/002327.html

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited April 15, 2006).]

Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :

Margaret Mitchell wrote the ending to "Gone with the Wind" first and then worked towards it, which was probably a pretty darn good idea.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

I'd be curious as to what advice author Robert Jordan would have about writing endings?

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

To recape some of the discussions we've had before:

MICE

If you haven't already, read One of OSC's two books on how to write. He describes this tool in both of them.

Basically, there are four types of stories.

1. Millieu -- Gulliver's Travels...this is a story that is mostly about a world. It starts when a character goes to that world and ends when he/she gets back.

2. Idea -- any mystery. The novel I'm writing right now is set up more as an idea story than anything else (although, as with most stories, it has elements of all four). It begins when the main character has a mystery to solve and end when you've solved it.

3. Character -- When a character change is the primary driving point of a story, it is a character story. It begins when the character realizes they need to make a change (this is not necessarily when the bad thing starts. For example, your character might have been abused by her spouse since she got married but the story starts when she decides to do something about it...the movie "Sleeping With the Enemy" springs to mind.) This story ends when the character finally makes a successful change OR when he/she decides to accept their situation.

4. Event -- most questing fantasy novels are event stories. It begins when the main character gets involved with whatever badness is happening in the world (This is not necessarily when the badness begins.). It ends when the world is fixed or when it all blows up.

These are tools and guidelines only, but they really are helpful. Once you decide which is the primary story you are telling, you know not only where to start, but also where (if not how) to end. Subplots (such as a romance that involves character change) should be introduces after the main plot and be resolves before (even well before in some cases), simultaneously with, or JUST BARELY after the climax.

Other than that, I suggest writing a few short stories to get you in the swing of starting and ending stories before you get into novels. They're not the same thing, really, but it helps to get the gist of it down.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Turning to a previous question, I don't think Jordan would dare give advice on endings.

But if he did (under an assumed name, say), he probably would give pretty good advice. If you've read the Wheel of Time trilogy (by which I mean the first three books), they clearly display a firm grasp of narrative structure and dramatic resolution both within each book and in the trilogy as a whole.

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Nancy Kress wrote a book called, Beginnings, Middles & Ends. She speaks to delivering on the promise of your book, and what she calls "The Very End: Last Scene, Last Paragraph, Last Sentence." Lotsa good stuff.

Posted by Megan (Member # 3360) on :

thanks guys for all the imput and suggestions, they've helped a lot!
i've gotta check out a different library for OSC's book because mine didn't have it, but it sounds really good.

Posted by wyrd1 (Member # 3366) on :

Question here about character stories:

A character story ends when the MC finds a role they are happy with, right?

so an example would be a korean carpet weaver hates his job, aliens pick him up, use him as a guinea pig and somehow he becomes an interstellar rock star. Even though his role changes in the middle from carpet weaver to guinea pig the ending happens when he becomes an interstellar rock star right?

similarly an event story that begins with twins seperating ends with them being together after much strife and turmoil. Just trying to clear things up for myself because I find beginings easy to write, characters easy to build but finding the exact endpoint is HARD. I'll get back to writing now.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

One problem with the Korean carpet weaver story is that if the main story problem is..."MC hates his job and wants a new one." it is pretty uninteresting that aliens capture him and use him as a guinea pig...there is no forward movement of the main question.

Now, if it's an event story, the main problem is: "Aliens capture MC and use him as a guinea pig." The fact that the MC hatd his job and ends up with a different one is secondary and potentially interesting as well, but his struggles with the alien captors it the main story and if becomming an intergalactic rock star is part of how he overcomes the problem, then it works great as a resolution to both that main plot and the subplot.

You see...whatever the main problem is the ANTAGOINST has to be the one doing things about it. Otherwise, who cares?

Posted by wyrd1 (Member # 3366) on :

I thought the antagonist was the bad guy. So the protagonist has to do something. Still mastering the writers jargon though.

in the guinea pig to rockstar and dealing with the aliens in the above example the fact that the person was an unhappy carpet weaver should be worked in through dialogue, flashback, or third person narrative (or another tool) at a section other then the very beginning for a good story right?

I hope you don't mind the questions. If you do, I work at a college and maybe I should bug an english teacher.

[This message has been edited by wyrd1 (edited April 19, 2006).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I think that you're describing a milieu story, actually. The milieu story can end when the character returns home or when he becomes at home in the milieu, that is, when it ceases to be strange to him.

A character story would have to be concerned mainly with the internal struggle of the character, man against himself rather than man against man (aliens, in this case) or man against his environment (interstellar culture). You don't describe any internal struggle, only a change in the external conditions.

I don't think that you need to explore the unhappiness of being a carpet weaver at all. Though I don't understand where you got that. It would be much better to concentrate on something that is familiar to the audience as the background for a milieu story's main character, or just leave it unstated. How much do we know about Arthur Dent's life on Earth? It wasn't really worth mentioning, or remembering, at any rate.

Posted by wyrd1 (Member # 3366) on :

survivor said:" I think that you're describing a milieu story, actually. The milieu story can end when the character returns home or when he becomes at home in the milieu, that is, when it ceases to be strange to him."

I am/was confused I didn't realize a milieu story ends when the milieu ceases to be strange. I thought becoming comfortable in an enviroment was and eding only for character plots.

I apologize for confusion.
I think I need to read a book on plot. I won't bother anyone else until I do. Thank you.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Most of my novels have ended with characters, or sets of characters, parting ways with each other. Basically they've had whatever adventure they were going to have together, and either want to leave each other or have to leave each other.

Now that I think of it, I wonder if I shouldn't try to come up with something else.

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

There's always the Margaret Atwood approach:

The story isn't over until everyone in it is dead.

Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :

The only book I've found that really helped with the words to actually END a story was CLOSURE IN THE NOVEL by Marianna Torgovnick. It's op and I'm thankful I got hold of a copy at all. But I first read it through an interlibrary loan.

It's all about how to end rather than why. If you know you want to end with the pov finally finding a job/life he likes or to end with the pov discovering it really was his girlfriend who shot so ans so...you still have the problem of how are you going to present that ending to your audience. THAT'S what Torgovnick talks about.

Posted by JmariC (Member # 2698) on :

The weaver story makes sense to me as a character story:

Guy hates job, doesn't know what he wants to do but knows he doesn't want to weave carpets, which the only thing he really knows how to do or has experience with.

Insert aliens and strange galactic adventures, carpet weaving doesn't look so bad, but now it's not an option thus he still has no idea what he wants to be when he grows up.

Along the way he discovers that music is made through different methods than flutes or earth guitars. He learns that his experience not only makes it easy for him to learn the instruments but he has a natural talent (maybe something that has been hinted up to by scene of him singing in the shower or such).

He's good, but is he good enough to be a star? And even if he is, how does he escape being a guinea pig? And most importantly, is this what he wants to do with his life? Is the job of Intergalactic Rock Star all it's cracked up to be?

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

The story has a main character.

That is not the same thing as being a character story.