Besides me, I mean. Lately I've been thinking that I'm a fraud to call myself a writer because fiction-wise, I've only published a couple of things--one for five bucks and one for free. I've stopped subbing to the markets that don't pay anything. Still, I write a column for free on writing. Isn't that the definition of a fraud? One who professes to know about a subject, but has no credentials to prove it? Unless you count a couple of articles to major magazines that I wrote, got published and paid for back in the 1980s, my resume list is pretty slim. Just spouting (pouting) I guess, but does anyone else ever feel the same?
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
Sometimes -- like when I give suggestions at Hatrack!
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Look, feeling insecure and incompetant about your writing is pretty common. Try to just ignore it.
What if you are, in fact, a fraud? How does that change anything? Are you going to stop writing or stop subbing or stop writing your column? Didn't think so.
Focus on the work.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Not so much about writing, but quite often when people tell me how spiritual or reliable I am.
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
I'm a fraud either way, because either I AM a fantastic writer who is NOT living up to my potential, or I HAVE no potential but continue to believe I do or at least act as if I believe I do. But what I say doesn't matter--I'm a fraud until I'm published and read, more than I have been, by enough people and the RIGHT people!
It's a heck of a way to exist, I tell ya!
Posted by Inkwell (Member # 1944) on :
I look at it this way...perhaps I am a fraud. Perhaps you are a fraud. But that means that we (and, in all likelihood, at least a few others) are frauds together. And that deranged, unifying fact is most definitely NOT fraudulent.
Did I just say that? Wow. I guess I really am a fraud.
Damn the torpedoes...full steam ahead!
Inkwell ------------------ "The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp." -Anonymous
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
quote:Not so much about writing, but quite often when people tell me how spiritual or reliable I am.
I hear that! And know exactly what you mean!
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Thanks all of you--for the camaraderie and the pep talks. At least I know I'm not alone!!
Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
You're a fraud, Smaug, and you really ought to give the ten thousand bucks back to that widow before you start spending it.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 3384) on :
I'm too damn awesome to be a fraud. That's how I look at it.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
You're not a fraud, you're taking yourself and your work seriously. And you do know things non-writers, or beginning writers, don't.
Yeah, sometimes I worry about that too, but I don't let it stop me. Just go on writing. That's all that matters.
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
quote:You're a fraud, Smaug, and you really ought to give the ten thousand bucks back to that widow before you start spending it.
Oh no. My secret life has been discovered.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
What little I've published here and there paid me, at most, a copy of what it was published in. My resume is slimmer than Smaug's, but I've learned this and that along the way, and compulsively feel the need to share when appropriate here.
As for fraud, well...how many of you are posting under assumed names?
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Not me. Smaug is my real name. Posted by Inkwell (Member # 1944) on :
^^^ ...And how many of us submit using noms de plume? I know I do, though not because of paranoia or reclusiveness...my full name is just a bit too long for (my own) comfort.
The pseudonym (basically a compression of my first and middle names to initials) is also much easier to write out as a signature. More practical, in the unlikely event that I sell something of merit and have to sit in an obscure bookstore, waiting for at least one person to approach the desk.
Inkwell ------------------ "The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp." -Anonymous
Posted by sholar (Member # 3280) on :
If I ever actually decide I have written something good enough to submit, I might not use my own name. But that is for "covering my butt" reasons. If I ever get paid for something outside of my job, that might violate my contract (not the letter, just the "spirit," but we have learned the hard way that we have no rights and the higher ups can interpret anything anyway they wish). But what they don't know won't hurt them. Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
Analyze your real first name here http://www.kabalarians.com/index.cfm and see what ails you. They sure had me down!
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Try typing in someone else's name and see if the description matches them.
Posted by Ray (Member # 2415) on :
If you have a nickname, type that in and compare it to what's said about your full name.
Posted by KatFeete (Member # 2161) on :
A writer is one who writes. It has nothing to do with publication. We write. Therefore we are writers.
I rarely feel a fraud in the sense of being a not-good-enough writer. It does bother me, from time to time, that I give out advice on writing in forums like these and have even published (and been paid for) articles on writing without having a single fiction publication to my name. But... the thing is, it's advice. People can take it or leave it, and many have done both. I'm ever-cautious about handing out ultimatums, especially to beginning writers, and overall more people seem to have been helped (or ignored me entirely ) than have been hurt.
More to the point, I am a writer. I have written two novels and submitted them. Neither have been accepted for publication (yet), but that hasn't stopped me learning a great deal in the process. Writing isn't like getting a medical degree, where one either has credentials or is a fraud. Writing is something you learn on your own, with practice, with patience. The publishing business is, sadly, still a bit of a lottery. You can be unpublished and a good writer; you can be published and crap.
Publication is important, don't get me wrong, and I certainly don't mean this to sound like sour grapes. But as a method of seperating the wheat from the chaff, it has more faults than virtues.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I've felt like a frog and a Freud, but never a fraud.
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
"What's in a name?"
I tried several and most of the analyses are geared toward saying you have a lot going for you, but there are several serious things wrong with you. I was just surprised mine was fitting in so many ways!
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I tried my name and the names of a couple of people I know, but I can't say they were on the money for any of them.
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
quote:I tried my name and the names of a couple of people I know, but I can't say they were on the money for any of them.
Well, perhaps you don't know them or yourself as well as you think you do. Remember, the man always knows. That's so he can keep us down.
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
First of all, to answer the question, I feel like a fraud a lot. But you most certainly aren't.
As for the name thing, didn't fit me well at all.
Posted by NoctivigantR (Member # 3389) on :
Fake it so good that they publish a fraud by mistake.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
This is weird because it's true:
quote:This name restricts spontaneity in association and the fluency of your verbal expression.....You can express your deeper thoughts and feelings best through writing.
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
quote:Fake it so good that they publish a fraud by mistake.
Ha ha! I think you've hit on something, NoctivigantR!
Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :
If Mighty Cow isn't a fraud, then why does milk still cost more than gasoline? I mean, barely, but still...
Posted by DomiParker (Member # 3390) on :
Smaug, if the above hasn't quelled your worries, consider this:
Writing in itself is selling your idea to someone else, and making it theirs. Where would any author be without the imagination of their readers? Text on a page can never match what people can dream up, so the skill in writing is not the eloquence of the words or structure or anything like that, it is the ability to convey your ideas in a way that allows the reader to make the idea their own and expand upon it in their minds.
Thus, no writer is a fraud. It is the fault of those darned readers who steal our ideas!
Posted by RCSHIELDS (Member # 3362) on :
If your are not published are you a fraud? I go with the adage; if you must write you are a writer. There is no fraud in being you.
Why do some writers get publish while others don't? It may simply be the same difference between why we eat chicken eggs instead of duck eggs.
Ducks lay their eggs with a 'Quack' and they're done.
Chickens start with cackling, scratching, and a lot of wing flapping. They progress to nervous fidgeting and loud screeching about the advent. When at last the egg is laid, it arrives with a cresendo of vocal protestations. The event is then followed by a vigorous and agitated inspection of the egg.
On the whole duck eggs are larger and taste just as good as a chicken egg, the promotion, however is completely different.
Fear of being found laying an egg probably keeps duck eggs out of grocery stores. It probably keeps a lot of good stories out of book stores, too
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
Hey, Shields! Is that your real name? Have you got something to crow about, or are you just a quack?
Posted by Matt Lust (Member # 3031) on :
Yes Lust is my real name.
In fact I've never been known Professionally as Matthew Lust and the one Scholarly article I've published to date was as Matt Lust so I'm more or less stuck as Matt.
But as to being a fraud or not, yes I feel like one all the time in my discipline because I only know as much as I know which is far from everything. So when I give my best answer and it is incomplete/totally wrong, I feel like a total shmuck.
Posted by sholar (Member # 3280) on :
As a writer, I don't view myself as a fraud (mostly cause it is a hobby for me, not a professional goal). But I am a total slacker at my real job, so in that area, some times I feel bad. But then, I realize, hey, I have a job where I can get away with slacking and then I feel good again.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Well, this somewhat incomprehensible conversation is still meandering along, so I guess I'll ask what all of you are getting in exchange for your fraudulent writing.
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
The hope of some Pinocchio-like transformation into a REAL WRITER!
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
"Robert Nowall" is also my real name. I have documentation!
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 3384) on :
Every name I put in there is right on target with me. Surprisingly, ever name I could think of is confident, smart, creative, funny...
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
quote:what all of you are getting in exchange for your fraudulent writing.
They're receiving fraudulant payment. Shhh!
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Because we have this other thread (or so) about someone that apparently really did defraud the public with writing that turned out to be other than what it purported to be.
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
I tried typing in the first name of "Ray," that of my favorite author and a close family friend, and it was complete polar opposite of them both!
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Maybe they're both "shrewd" and "aggressive" enough to decieve you for "personal gain" Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
Survivor: That certain person is getting just dues.
Posted by Ray (Member # 2415) on :
Cori: It may be possible that both have been lying to you about their real names. It had me pegged, although I also share the same name as my dad, and from what I've seen, we are not alike in most respects. So how well do I know my parent? Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
Hey...is Ray YOUR real name?
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Hey that name thing for some reason said that I "think highly" of myself and "lurk about waiting to kill Hobbits". Are you sure that thing is accurate?
Posted by Ray (Member # 2415) on :
It's the one thing I'm positive isn't fraudulant on this topic.
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
Are we having fun?
Posted by RCSHIELDS (Member # 3362) on :
I believe that the topic was, 'Do you ever think of yourself as a fraud?' Somehow it has digressed to 'Am I a fraud because I use a pseudonym?' These are not the same questions.
The first questions creative artists' tendancy to feel inadiquate in the face of public display of talents. The other questions their motives.
The duck egg story is very old and used to illustrate many different points. I was addressing Smaugs initial topic with that story because he adds to the question, 'are you a fraud because you're not published but still write?' To further address the orignal topic here is another old chestnut. "Being in business without advertising is like winking at a pretty girl in the dark. You may be doing it, but no one will know or care."
Posted by RCSHIELDS (Member # 3362) on :
Yes, CoriSCapnSkip, RCSHIELDS is my name, you can click on the icon with the face and questionmark and discover that I have posted a great deal of information about myself, as has Smaug. Interesting that you haven't but enjoy lampooning others. Could one question your motives? By the way, the 'ret.' after my profession means that I have retired. If you would care to come and see what I can crow about go on line to Thunder Mountain Line and book passage on the train ride that says 'Murder Mystery' and come see me.
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
Shields is my real name, too, and a relative of mine lives in your area, but I am of a reserved and retiring nature and prefer to retain an aura of mystery.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Without the murder, eh? Or am I reading something into those lines that isn't there Posted by Inkwell (Member # 1944) on :
I just tried the name=characteristics generator thing twice.
Wow.
The first time, with the shortened version I use most often, it said my name could "cause health weaknesses in the heart, lungs, bronchial area, worry, and mental tension." The second time, with my full first name, it said it could "cause health weaknesses in the fluid systems, and tension, or accidents to the head."
I'm okay with everything but the last one, though remain curious as to which fluid system they're referring to. Hey...Depends are expensive, Kemosabe!
Oddly enough, the combination of information from both descriptions fit me best. For example:
"Your pleasant manner attracts people to you with their problems and you are capable of offering practical advice, though you would probably not follow such advice yourself."
+
"This characteristic could make you rather unpopular with your associates."
Heh, I guess that means I should stop dispensing advice around here. You've been warned...
Inkwell ------------------ "The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp." -Anonymous
[This message has been edited by Inkwell (edited May 09, 2006).]
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Well, I was mainly asking because I write a column on how to write, while at the same time am barely published. The way I look at it, if I could impart some kind of info on how to write to others, that would be effective for them, I'd also have a lot more credits to my name. The same thing is happening for this free online writer's workshop that I've been asked to be a presenter for. Why, I ask myself, would anyone care what I have to say as a presenter if I don't have the credentials to back it up? Anyway, those are the kinds of things that make me feel a bit fraudulent--not the fact that I call myself a writer.
Posted by RCSHIELDS (Member # 3362) on :
Smaug, what is the reaction of your audience to your stories? Are they generally captivated? Do they say things to you that indicate your writing is exceptional? i.e. if you don't finish this story you're a cruel person.
Since I also fall into the unpaid and unpublished writer catagory I can only fall back on decades of perfomance experience. I know that people like to hear me sing, I know that when I perform people enjoy my perfomances. I am frequently invited by producers to star in musicals, plays, orotorios, and murder mysteries. I occaisionally teach well attended classes in how to audition and act. Over the years I have collected very little pay in this advocation and have only had bit parts in movies, rarely appeared on television and never performed on Broadway. Does this lack of financial recognition mean I'm not a superior performer? No.
Financial recognition is all well and good, I often tell people that the best form of applause is money, sometimes it works.
Judge your skill by the response of your audience and the request of others whose livelyhood or personal success in an important project is dependant on your ability to write. Be confident that someone thinks enough of your writing that they have invited you to talk about it. The experience will add to your credibility.
Rob.
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
Shields...is your first name, by any chance...Robert?
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
quote:Smaug, what is the reaction of your audience to your stories? Are they generally captivated? Do they say things to you that indicate your writing is exceptional? i.e. if you don't finish this story you're a cruel person.
I think those reading/hearing them usually like them. I've had a few exceptional comments over the years--you know, like extra comments penned in on contest entries and things like that, or people telling me that they want to read the rest, or can I tell them how it ends etc. I've never been called a cruel person, however, but that's just because they don't really know me.
Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :
I prefer to think of myself as a loser more than a fraud at the moment. As in I have lost my children's shot records and am in a nightmare of trying to get two healthcare bureaucracies to communicate with each other.
They're so frikkin anal about making you give the children their shots in the first place and then do everything they can to obstruct you getting on with recording the shots elsewhere. Makes me want to either blow something up or join the Christian Scientists.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
We might have a thread with explosives tips around here somewhere....
Posted by CoriSCapnSkip (Member # 3228) on :
They do have a record of all your phone calls, though.
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
