What is the general feel for the idea of writing unpublishable franchise fict...fan fict...just to get your name out there by way of the fan fict sites (Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who <dunno if they even have a Doc Who fanfict site but they may) ...and the somehow funnel readers of your fanficts to your own website, or other sites where you have other ficts put up, of your own world-building and stylings....would you consider any fanfict dabblings as 'prostituting yourself' in anyway? Just curious....I had an idea of a big DS9 story myself and wondered if this fanfict approach was considered by anyone...
VeeJayEss
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First, please be aware that our concern for author's rights means that this workshop is not for stories about someone else's characters or settings; no STAR TREK stories, no ALVIN MAKER stories, no MURDER, SHE WROTE stories, and so on. These, and others like them, are copyrighted and such stories are only published under very special circumstances. We'd like you to be able to see your own stories published; professionally, if possible.
But I guess in the meta-speculative realm, we are pretending this doesn't actually refer to fan-fic.
I have a strong belief that most people who take writing seriously feel the same as me about this.
If it is something you enjoy, consider it a guilty pleasure and don't discuss it 'round these parts or anywhere else real writers hang out.
Theresa Nielsen-Hayden knows a little bit about real writers, and sees it somewhat differently than pantros:
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007464.html#007464
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go work on my novel, Jimmy Bowler and the Obvious Fact That Bumblebore Isn't Really Dead.
[This message has been edited by trousercuit (edited June 09, 2006).]
Unless you have a publishing contract to churn out fan-fic, or are writing for the sheer pleasure of writing and don't care if you are published, I think writing fan-fic is mostly a waste of time. You have to decide if you want your writing to stand out. If so, my opinion is that you should develop your own original ideas.
[This message has been edited by pooka (edited June 09, 2006).]
For instance, I just got hired to write a short story for a Dr. Who anthology. Two years ago, I wouldn't have been able to do that because I wouldn't have been established enough to get an invitation.
Check the places that legitimately publish IP and see if any of them have guidelines. Wouldn't it be better to get paid for your work? I know one fellow who just queried and got in--again, though, he had established himself with his own writing first.
[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited June 10, 2006).]
(I draw atttention to the fact that I am not naming what particular TV show I either ripped off or did homages to or parodied. It isn't science fiction, in any case, though some of the stories I wrote were. And it's not one that ever gets published in the traditional manner.)
(1) I wanted to comment on some of the fanfics I had read, and did not want any comments I made to be taken in a "those who can't do, criticize" kind of way.
(2) I had some ideas I wanted to try out.
(3) After many long years of failing to get anything published in the traditional manner, the kind that somebody passes judgment on and then buys or rejects...well, I felt it was time to try some utterly non-commercial writing.
(4) In the writing of fanfics, I found myself able to unload a number of ideas and thoughts that had cluttered up my writing mind for years. It helped clear the slate.
(5) I've gotten far more response from the fanfics I've written (about a hundred thousand plus words), than anything else I've written (closing in on two million words).
Though I stopped, eventually---I wrote more than I originally intended to---I felt it was well worth doing. I don't have any regrets. (Yet.)
Reply to "pantros": I found those who wrote and read the particular kind of Internet Fan Fiction that I wrote to be as serious about writing as anybody I've encountered, here or elsewhere. There were at least two well-published writers among them. It's arrogant to categorize. If somebody says they find value in a particular kind of writing, you must take them at their word.
But, if you as a writer feel you have a worthy idea for a work, set in the ST:TNG universe or what have you, and DON'T under any circumstances intend to make *any* kind of liquid on the deal, then...?
I had more fun writing articles (nonfiction) about STAR WARS for STAR WARS fanzines when I was into that sort of thing, and saving my fiction energies for my own universes.
I would like to say that I was in touch with the fan referred to in that incident--at the time it happened--and the story is rather different from the fan's point of view.
What is told now about what happened is based on some serious misunderstandings, and it's too bad.
One point against taking any action: the people writing fanfic are often the Biggest Fans---why needlessly alienate them in this manner? (I've heard through the grapevine that the creator of the series I wrote fanfic about isn't particularly thrilled with the idea of it, but hasn't yet chosen to take any action.)
I think printing up a book and trying to sell it is probably crossing the line. I'd be flabbergasted to learn that some of my fanfic wound up in a printed book.
In some ways, fanfic is like Shakespeare, who dusted off old stories and characters written about by others, and wrote more (and better) about them.
It's also like the use of mythology. Whereas in the olden days somebody might have put their thoughts and ideas and philosophy through the vehicle of Job or the Greek gods or Snow White or somesuch, now they do so through the characters and situations they see on TV and in the movies. These are, after all, the modern-day mythology...
(I did hang onto a couple of ideas for fanfic, that I thought were "worthy." I wrote one out but haven't yet gone back to the (second) draft for the final polishing...)
As for the original question, my sense is that the vast, vast majority of people surfing fan-fic sites are more interested in finding more stories written in their favorite universe than in finding new authors who will spend their paying careers staying out of that universe. While most writers probably think that fan-fic can be fun in various ways, I don't think any of them think of it as a beneficial promotional tool. If people were writing fan-fics of my universe, I'd feel flattered that they were that invested in it, but I don't see how it could possibly help me...they'd just be expending their enthusiasm for the stories I had yet to write, and anyone reading my stories after being exposed to the fan-fics would be reading them in the context of those other stories, rather than the other way round.
That's just my own, highly arrogant speculation, but it seems to be born out by most of the fan-fics I see. Fan-fic doesn't actually help the original creators that much (unless it helps convince a publisher that there is a willing market...but since it dilutes the value of the original intellectual property I'd say that's an iffy point).
If I did have a bunch of fan-fic writers imitating my stuff, I'd probably want to organize a contest based anthology every now and then. There are a number of beneficial points to this. One of the best is that fan-fic writers might get a clue about where they sit on the totem pole of publishability/marketability. "Well, I'm doing this for you, but don't expect anyone except my fans to want to read this." Something like that.
However, fanfic is of value in helping cultivate a fan base. Fans and fan promotion can lead to things like syndication and DVD release, even series revival, and those things can lead to revenue. And ego-boost isn't something to be sneezed at, either...
More fanatical fans might mean more merchandise sales, though, and that's why we're all really here, right?
(If I get hit with a cease-and-desist order, I plan to cease-and-desist, cooperate in getting my stuff off the sites, and so on. After all, the creaters of the show I "fanfic-ed" pleased me greatly, and why shouldn't I give a little out of courtesy? But I draw the line at the notion of "financial compensation," 'cause, in my view, my work caused them no loss worthy of the name.)
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On the planet Xhaldia, ordinary men and women are mutating into bizarre creatures with extraordinary powers. But is this a momentous evolutionary leap or an unparalleled catastrophe? The very fabric of Xhaldian society is threatened as fear and prejudice divide the transformed from their own kin.Dispatched to cope with the growing crisis, Captain Picard and the crew of the Starship Enterprise™ receive some unexpected visitors from another reality -- in the form of the group of mutant heroes known as the uncanny X-Men®. Storm, leader of the X-Men, offers their help in resolving a situation that is agonizingly similar to the human/mutant conflicts of their own time and space.
But when hostile aliens appear in orbit around Xhaldia to try and abduct the transformed for use as a superpowered force in an attack on the Federation, even the combined forces of the crew of Starfleet and the X-Men may be unable to prevent an inferno of death and destruction.
Starfleet's finest crew and Earth's greatest mutant heroes will need all their powers and abilities to save the Xhaldian people and stop a deadly threat to the Federation.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Okay, got it sorted: I'm laughing now.
Oh, wait. That one actually got published. "Ishmael" by Barbara Hambly.
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There's also a negative side. If a fan who writes fanfic is hit upon by a creator's corporate lawyers with cease-and-desist orders, will that fan remain a fan?
It reminds me of the old saying:
If you love something, infringe on its copyright.
If it doesn't sue you, it's yours.
If it does, it never was.
I sued her.
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I remember being struck forcefully by one that had Spock dropped into the cast and background of an old 1960s show called "Here Come the Brides." Oh, wait. That one actually got published. "Ishmael" by Barbara Hambly.
And that book was a joke within a joke. My memory is that the tv show character of Aaron Stempel was portrayed in the book as an ancestor of Mr. Spock. The joke is that the television character was played by Mark Leonard who, of course, portrayed Spock's father in television and in the movies.
Since I liked both shows, Star Trek and Here Come The Brides, I enjoyed the book, even though it WAS hokey.
I can't help but imagine that editors and agents giggle behind their hands at fanfics and their writers.
I hope I haven't offended anybody. Like I said, I can see how it could be a lot of fun, but as a serious road to getting published...? I just can't see it being useful in that way.
Look, nobody here is saying that there are no suckastic editors/publishers/markets out there conspiring to kill the literary tradition by dealing with nothing but "hot" (controversial) and "cool" (celebrity) work, but that kind of hostility doesn't get you any closer to changing things.
Fan-fic won't get you closer to changing things either. It's something you can do for fun, because you're a fan. There can be arguments over whether it helps the original creators of a property, I don't see that it really does all that much other than serving as readily available market research, but that's not relevant to the current point. As a fan-fic writer, you don't stand to gain anything (other than the fun of it) unless you break the law.
I'm not offering an opinion on whether the law is all that, either. But for purposes of this site, I'm not recommending you try breaking (or even bending) it for personal gain.
There are things I did as writing exercises to develop my skills that were completely unpublishable. Like trying to novelize my favorite comic books was always fun, but I knew this was not legitimate.
If you like fan fic, develop your own characters and stories and the such. Become a NY Times bestseller, and then get your agent to put some feelers out to Paramount (or whomever) and let them hire you.
Honestly, I can’t take anyone over 18 (and I’m being generous there) who still writes fan fic, (especially when the show it off as a point of pride) seriously.
It’s like the 50 year olds in a cover band who never write or preform their own songs and are still holding out for a record deal.
JOHN!
I mean if people want to play in someone else's world, let 'em and don't be demeaning about it. It's for fun. That said, I think that considering fanfiction as anything but an avenue for fun is probably not a good plan.
And I have dreams set in trademarked universes all the time. By the way, my inexplicable slump of combat themed dreams recently ended in a tour de force of Aliens, Halo, Unreal Tourniment, Half-Life, that monster inscect scene from the new King Kong (which I hadn't seen at the time), an SF milieu that I can't attribute properly (it involves brutal melee bording actions after hiding our ship in an ice cave on a comet or something like that), and a lot of lesser themes that were, apparently, being suppressed by that "Suki no hitto ni, Suki to ieru" song. Okay, so part of the reason that I don't indulge in fan-fics is because the sort of thing I would write if I did is not the sort of thing I think anyone ought to be reading.
If you're a fan of something, it's fun to imagine your own stories set in that milieu. And it's fun to write them down and share them (if you're not too lazy and/or sociopathic). But don't confuse "fun" with "profitable". Those qualities aren't mutually exclusive, but nothing about the one necessarily implies the other.
On notions of control of copyrights and profiting from the work of others...up to relatively recently, copyright didn't exist. Writers swiped this plot and that character all the time. Shakespeare plotted and cast his plays almost entirely from the works of other writers. And the whole of it seems at the very least a way of the "haves" keeping the "have nots" from having fun.
At the most it keeps anybody else from making use of it, for monetary gain or just for the love of it. For example, how many of you would like to lay your hands on new editions of long-out-of-print books, but can't because nobody is reprinting them? How many of you would like to see certain movies or TV shows but they aren't on TV or DVD? Somebody controls the rights to these things, somebody prevents their fans from getting to them.
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up to relatively recently, copyright didn't exist.
If by relatively recently you mean 1709, then you are correct. However the idea of protecting the rights of authors from plagarists goes back to the ancient greeks. While Shakespeare did borrow plots he did not borrow them from living authors. These were stories which were in "the public domain" and he very much made them his own. Today we call this a retelling.
This is very different from fan fiction. I'm not arguing against fan fiction as a hobby, but I want to be clear that it is not the same thing at all as retelling a "classic" story.
Fight the man if you must, but don't think you'll benefit by doing so. That's just criminal.
I lost most of my respect for copyrights after Disney high-pressured Congress into extending the lifespan of a copyright purely for Disney's own benefit.
Also, I am an online gamer who used to play Everquest. I went to a fan faire and guess who I met who was, at the time, in discussion with Sony on developing Everquest facfic novels? R.A. Salvatore. So fanfic is not a wasteful literary venture. It can be profitable, if you know the right people. Ask any of the authors who wrote tons of fanfic for D&D, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. I'd like to have their royalty checks.
[This message has been edited by Whitney (edited June 25, 2006).]
Fanfiction, on the other hand, uses the characters and the world but can do anything with them.
I think I'd be reluctant to tackle an "official" fanfic, if there were too many restrictions about how I would go about it. I've heard complaints (second-hand) from "Star Trek" writers about how their work has been restricted.
Naturally, I've had a few ideas for "Star Trek" work---it'd be hard not to. But at the time I was most likely to write one, I was less likely to because I wanted to work my own universe---and when I was likely to write something like that, I was intensely interested in another TV show.
(I don't know if I should mention this, but one guy who hung out in the same end of the fanfic pool as me, also sold "Star Trek" stories and got published in one of their anthologies.)
Did you know that Bujold started out writing fan-fic?...for herself and her girl friends. Then she decided to get serious, create her own milieu (without some of the egregious shortcomings of the Trekverse), and transpose some of her better stories into a setting that she actually could claim as her own intellectual property.
There's nothing wrong with writing fan-fic for fun (nor is there anything writing for an intellectual property, though that is a completely different animal, as MR has pointed out). But as long as your stories are fan-fic, you have no chance of getting them taken seriously as your stories. When you want to find out if it has potential on its own merits, you've got to present it on its own merits. It's that simple.
I've also revealed my thoughts on my profile on that site as to wishing to become a real published writer some day and I was so thrilled to get so much feedback saying that they would read all my work.
I'm not sure who it was who said something about for those who feel like they do, those who write fanfic arent real writers and dont take it seriously. I object completely. I take it very seriously. Through writing my fanfic I have become a better writer and have since branched off and start on my own stories with my own characters. Fanfic is a great way for shy people to get their start in writing. It gives them that boost they need to get 'concrit' back and learn from others as well as read others and give their input as well.
Personally, I think fanfic writing was a great start for me. I dont regret it at all. I've made a lot of loyal readers, a lot of great friends who not only share my interest but also can give me pointers as well as listen to ideas. It's also given me the confidence to realize this is something I can do.
Crea