This is topic Present Tense in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :
 
Why is it that passive voice in present tense is easier to get away with than it is in third person?

Or it doesn't bother me, anyway, either in my own writing, or someone else's.

Why does I am doing such and so bother me less than I was doing such and so, and should it bother me?
 


Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
I don't understand the question -- present tense and third person are not flip sides of the same coin. It's present vs past vs future and third person vs first person vs. second person.
 
Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :
 
Beh, I was posting in a rush and confused myself. I meant present tense seems to read okay in passive voice, but past tense gets boring faster.

Sorry about that.
 


Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
I thought that might be what you were after but wanted to make sure...

I think the reason it works better in present tense is that present tense is inherently dreamlike, and so is passive voice. I think the two can compliment one another when done properly.
 


Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
Interesting take, present tense is dream-like. Not to me, not at all. To me, present tense is neurotic, sometimes to the point of panic.
 
Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :
 
Well, I wondered partly because I read William Gibson's Pattern Recognition. It's present tense, and I like it. I'm not afraid to write in present tense, but I don't know how to edit my verb usage. Anyway, I just picked up Pattern Recognition and read the first page, and it looks like Gibson avoided passive verbs in a lot of places where he could have used them, but there are still quite a few.
 
Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :
 
The reason present tense seems dream like is that it is timeless. If you look back three pages, to something that's already happened . . . it's still happening! I can see how that might seem neurotic, as well.

But regarding your example, Louiseoneal: "I am doing such and so" vs. "I was doing such and so". Neither of these are passive voice. They are present progressive vs. past progressive tense. The reason that present progressive seems to work better is because (and this is important) that's how we talk about things in everyday life when we refer to things that are going on right now. This is one more reason why writing in present tense is--generally--a mistake. Straight present tense, grammatically, should be used for things that happen on a regular basis: "On Tuesdays I go to the grocery store," or "Every year I celebrate my birthday." So present tense, rather than giving any kind of sense of immediacy, gives a sense of changelessness.

Actions of the current instant are generally in present progressive: "I'm eating dessert now," or "You're making a fool out of yourself." But it would seem pretty goofy to try to write a story in present progressive. Maybe someone here should try it just to see what they get.

For actions of a past moment, we use straight past, so when someone says "He was wondering why the food in the cafeteria tasted so bad," it should generally be changed to "He wondered why. . . ." Past progressive should be reserved for those occasions when something in the past was in progress at the moment that something else happened: "I was playing the piano when the lights went out."
 


Posted by Nietge (Member # 3474) on :
 
The entirety of Charles Stross' 'Accelerando' is in present tense as well, I believe. Last I heard, it was shortlisted for the Hugo.

Here's the first 13 lines or so of it, copy & pasted from his own website (CC-licensed):

Manfred's on the road again, making strangers rich.

It's a hot summer Tuesday, and he's standing in the plaza in front of the Centraal Station with his eyeballs powered up and the sunlight jangling off the canal, motor scooters and kamikaze cyclists whizzing past and tourists chattering on every side. The square smells of water and dirt and hot metal and the fart-laden exhaust fumes of cold catalytic converters; the bells of trams ding in the background, and birds flock overhead.

[This message has been edited by Nietge (edited June 23, 2006).]
 


Posted by Sara Genge (Member # 3468) on :
 
In past tense the action isn't immediate, so you're aching for active verbs to show that something really IS going on. That's specially important in 3rd person because you're not directly lincked to the MC and the only way he can show what he's like is through very direct action
In present tense you're there, RIGHT NOW. It's more realistic in a weird way: present tense is how we live our lives. Even if it's written in 3rd person it feels as if it were happening. And in real life many things that happen, happen to you, without you having a very active role in them. That may be why it takes passive voice better. If you're in 1st person, present then it's even more evident. It feels as if someone was giving you an up to date, instant report on something. Passive feels natural because we're used to hearing journalists on tv describe event around them in which they don't participate directly. Even if they don't use the passive voice, they are passive towards the situation. Maybe that's why we buy it in present tense.
 
Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :
 
Thanks, glad I asked, because that helps. Except I think I need a grammar book now...

Or should I say, I am needing a grammar book now.
 


Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
 
quote:
Except I think I need a grammar book now...

Or should I say, I am needing a grammar book now.


Try using the proper perfunctory infarctive:

I am had needing of a grammar book, yo.

[This message has been edited by trousercuit (edited June 23, 2006).]
 


Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
Sara, on the surface it seems so, but I think well written third person past tense has more immediacy and more flexibility.

[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited June 23, 2006).]
 


Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :
 
I agree with Spaceman. For one thing, real life is NOT in present tense. By the time you know something's happened . . . well, it's happened. Over and done with. If it's an extended time event, then you can be in the middle of it; but all the parts that you can possibly know about are already over. Past tense usually gives this sense of it having happened right now--just like real life.

Present tense seems like it ought to be more immediate . . . but it doesn't work that way, at least not for most people. And first person present tense is NOT how one would be telling someone else about their own experiences. If they were doing that--say, talking on their cellphone--it would be in present progressive: "I'm going down the stairs, now I'm getting my jacket on and heading for the door . . . uh-oh, the knob is stuck [stative verb, here, referring to the state of something rather than action. This is a real-life use for straight present; so, Louiseoneal, "I need a grammar book" is, or course, what you would say, and the reason is that it refers to a condition]--there, now I'm out and locking the door." NOBODY would say "I go down the stairs . . ." etc.

I'm not saying good books can't be written in present tense. James Tiptree's two novels, Up the Walls of the World and Brightness Falls from the Air are both right up there among my favorite novels, and both are in present tense. But they would have been even better in past. Anyway, as you read them, you just start to ignore the tense, until you put it down at a chapter break--then when you pick it up again it's an annoyance for a page or so. Really, that's the best that can be said of present tense in most circumstances: that you stop noticing after awhile. The worst is that it bothers you with it's dreamy, timeless air the entire time (unless a dreamy, timeless mode is exactly what you're looking for. In that case, by all means, use it).

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited June 23, 2006).]
 


Posted by Sara Genge (Member # 3468) on :
 
Hmmm, I wasn't advocating present tense, I was just speculating on why passive voice sounded better in it.
I agree that for most situations, past tense is better.
I've learnt that the hard way!
 


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