Hatrack River Writers Workshop: said he; she said

This is topic said he; she said in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

Someone pointed out in my first thirteen thread that I had used; She said, instead of; said he

I've always beleived that the said should come after the person's name but was told in that particular thread putting said last was jarring.

I also read that putting said first is the sign of an amature. What do other people think about this?

I'd go for he said every time.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

Humbug.

If that person was really jarred out of the story by that, they must not read much. I can't think of a single book in which an author doesn't.

Posted by Matt Lust (Member # 3031) on :

I used to be sports editor for my college paper. our rules were

"X said" was to be used if you followed said with a '.'

"said X" was to be used if you followed X with a ',' an introduced some tidbit about the person saying the words.

"I like you," James said.

"You really shouldn't take this so serious," said James, senior judge on the panel.

Granted this is journalistic style but I generally follow it.

Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :

Chalk this up to an overzealous critique. No one even reads those tags unless they truly are jarring (i.e. said-isms).

Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :

your critic sounds a little said-istic to me.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

I just read the crit (and your revised first 13) and then this post, and I think perhaps worth considering is that you twice use the "Fisk said." in as many of Fisk's lines of dialogue. It's perhaps only jarring in a repetitive way. We just saw Fisk saying, here he is saying again!

Now, some writers get around this by omitting dialogue tags, but that bugs the living daylights out of me unless you're very far in the middle of a dialogue exchange between two people and it's VERY clear who is who. I don't think it's a good idea to open a story w/omitted dialogue tags.

So...my suggestion in this case would be to add a "beat" - some type of action tag with the dialogue one. Another poster in this thread used an example of it.

"Up," said Fisk, his face inscrutable. (I'm reading an author right now who uses this word a lot. I find it kind of silly since it's not a word I think is used often, but hey - it's an idea!)

"Up," said Fisk as he pulled down on his jacket, making sure his numerous medals were parallel to the floor.

or something.

As a general rule, I don't think there's any problem with switching around the order as the dialogue and story flow require/permit, however I am a visual processor and I did notice the similarity (the dialogue lines in question were of similar lengths) of the two "Fisk said."s

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

The trouble is, if I don't say, Fisk said on both occasions no one will know who is speaking, plus Fisk dissapears after the first page so I don't need to characterise him in any way. I'm happy with it the way it is.

Edited to change terrible spelling and say: I also wouldn't want to waste the thirteen lines with uneeded words, but there could probably be a way around the repetition if I looked into it.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 04, 2007).]

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I decided long ago that I would write "Name said," rather than "said Name"---at the time I thought it looked better, and even now the latter still looks awkward and improper.

Even though the latter is the more common, I'm sticking with it. Besides, I recently read an alternate history novel that did it just as I did. (I wonder which writer was responsible for putting it that way, the SF writer or the politician?)

On the other hand, "said he" is outright and always wrong.

Posted by Lynda (Member # 3574) on :

I think there may be a slight language barrier here, although I don't know the nationality of any of the posters involved. I've noticed in British novels I've read in the last few years, they say "said Bernice" rather than "Bernice said" more often, while American writers use "Bernice said" (and I have no idea where "Bernice" came from - it's just an example). So perhaps your reviewer was British??

Lynda

Posted by Rick Norwood (Member # 5604) on :

A friend of mine was able to tell which Tarzan novels were by Burroughs and which by ghosts based on whether the dialog was credited with "Tarzan said" or "Said Tarzan".

In a conversation between two people, I usually use, "said Joe" at the end of Joe's speech. But when a third person joins in, I begin the sentence with "Joan said". I also use that form if Joan is going to be speaking for more than one paragraph.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

That's an odd fact, considering Burroughs was himself a novice when he wrote Tarzan.

Posted by RMatthewWare (Member # 4831) on :

"When using dialog tags, I would use name then said," Matt said.

The other way I find annoying, at least in literature. The rules may be different in news and such.