Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Young Adult Fiction

This is topic Young Adult Fiction in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

Recently, Evil Editor said, "Usually a main character who's a kid suggests a book for kids."

How strong is this rule (assuming it really is one since EE said it)? My WiP has two protagonists, one 11 and one 16 (sisters). While I often thought it could be YA, I feel it's just Fantasy. Will I need to push it as YA since the protagonists are kids?

The 11-year old gets equal time, but she spends the bulk of the novel trapped in the body of a dragon. She only has the mind of a child.

(A couple of you have read, or are reading, my novel, so your opinions are especially valued.)

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

Harry Potter is about kids, but the majority of people who've read it are adults. Same with Phillip Pullman's Golden Compass series, which was printed with two different covers, one marketed to kids and one to adults. Stardust, too, had a large adult following, I believe. In fact, I think Gaiman calls it a "fairy tale for adults". I guess technically the characters might be adult (17??).

I think EE might be over simplifying. There are other things that make a book adult versus YA fiction, not just the characters' age. Theme is part of it, as well as the writing, presentation, etc.

Also, just because something is published and marketed as YA fantasy doesn't mean adults won't seek it out. I, for one, love reading YA fiction. In other words, I'm not sure how much it matters.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

There's a lot of YA crossover happening right now, according to some editors and agents I heard talk at a Literary Festival in my area. It's a hot market (well, hotter than other arms of fiction - I don't think anyone could say that books are a booming industry right now, sadly), so it might behoove you to think about marketing your book in the YA market because there might be a little more room for it. At least that's the general idea I got from these folks at the festival.

I think one thing you need to think about w/regard to your protagonists is - do they/can they CAUSE the action in the book, or is stuff mostly happening to them? YA readers prefer to see protags who actually DO stuff. They don't like it when adults "save" them from perilous situations or when things just keep happening to them (accident, coincidence, or because of adults.) Not to say these things can happen from time to time in a novel-length work, but if the majority of the story is being told about the bad crap that happens to a couple kids and how they have to continually rely on adults to get them out of scrapes or what have you, it's not as likely to appeal to a YA audience.

Another friend said an agent told him that if the story starts out with a protag who is older, reminiscing about his past, then it's NOT YA even if the rest of the book features his character in a YA age range. It's one reason he's considering rewriting the beginning of his story.

Your mileage may vary, but there's some thoughts.

OH - one last thing I remembered. Because I like to write YA science fiction, I asked when I go to market my work, where should I look? To agents who rep sci-fi or ones who rep YA? The resounding answer was YA. The agents and editors present said that the YA divisions are generally grouped with children's divisions of publishers, and they are often in different buildings or otherwise physically separated from the adult fiction publishers and editors. So, a YA agent will know the YA people who are looking to buy. An adult-fiction agent will only know the adult-fiction pubs and editors, who may or may not be able to introduce them to someone on the children's division side.

Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :

I would say that's not always true. Look at Boy's Life by McCammon, or Swan's Song...both of those were about kids--but not YA.

Kayti's right, if you think your book is for the YA market then you should most definitely begin investigating in those circles. YA is a whole other world from regular spec fic. They have their own conferences and clubs and societies. I belong to SCBWI (Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators) and that's been a huge tool, helping me make a lot of really great connections--some agents and editors won't even look at your work unless your a member of the SCBWI.

[This message has been edited by pixydust (edited October 25, 2007).]

Posted by RMatthewWare (Member # 4831) on :

Have any of you read OSC's "How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy"? In it he tries to define Science Fiction, Fantasy, and the difference between the two. The conclusion he seems to come to is that they sometimes bleed into each other, there are many variations in each, and its really hard to distinguish the two in many cases.

Charles deLint is generally regarded the inventor of Urban Fantasy. That is a newer genre that is hot now. Seemingly even hotter is Young Adult, which could be scifi/fantasy, or it could be on its own.

In my own WiP I first marketed it as fantasy, then as a children's book, since it could be marketed to adults, children, young adult, or fantasy. Why do you think so many books just get dumped on the scifi/fantasy shelves. Why is there so much high-quality speculative fiction on the children's shelves. (I always feel silly looking through the children's section for my next book.) There's a huge mixing of genres, so your book could easily fit into several. The way you should market it is to tailor your query letter to the person you're sending it to.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

I never considered "Ender's Game" YA fiction. The themes were quite adult. Same with "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Posted by JamieFord (Member # 3112) on :

The YA section at Barnes & Noble has Enders Game, with a different cover. There's definitely some crossover, and part of it is marketing.

My book has a 12 year old protag. An editor last year read a partial and thought it should be YA. I disagreed, finished the book and sold it as Commercial/Lit Fic.

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. That is pretty much what I thought, but I had worried a bit over if it should be YA or not already--then I saw that and figured I should check around.

YA is always a backup plan if it doesn't sell otherwise, I guess.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

It's an interesting question. As a reader, if I pick up a book and see it's about a kid, the chances are I'll put it back down. I find most of what the fantasy books have kids do wildly improbable. Sure, a twelve year old goes out and kills his parent's murderers (an example relating to no particular piece of fiction, just the kind of thing you tend to see in them). Sure.

But that may make me the exception rather than the rule. And heaven knows, what readers look for and what editors look for can be miles apart.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited October 26, 2007).]

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

If you've got a kid protagonist, YA fiction might be a good place to start when marketing your work. Even if it's SF or fantasy, from what I see at the stores, the YA bookshelves are full of both. (I've got an incomplete novel starring a teenaged girl. I plan to check out the market once I'm done. But there are a few scenes and situations that really don't scream "YA"---right now I'm just starting to ponder revisions, and all that may go. Or not.)

Posted by mfreivald (Member # 3413) on :

I ran across the quotes below while looking for one from C.S. Lewis stating essentially that if children's literature is not good for adults -- it is probably not good children's literature.

But that is mostly about *quality*, as are several of the responses you've gotten, and what you need is a *marketing* answer.

I'm not a marketing guy at all, but if the story is equally suited to youths, I would probably write it mostly for youths. Then the marketing should be fairly simple. If, however, the story has a sophistication much better suited to adults, it should be made an adult story, and the marketing problem becomes: "How do I orient adult minds toward this story about youths?" So, if you make the latter choice, I think it deserves further thought. How can you enhance or change the story in a way that it isn't just an adventure with youths?

Here be the quotes:

quote:
"Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." ~G.K. Chesterton

quote:
"In our time, when the literature for adults is deteriorating, good books for children are the only hope, the only refuge." ~Isaac Bashevis Singer

quote:
"Adults are only obsolete children." ~Dr. Seuss

quote:
"We must meet children as equals in that area of our nature where we are their equals...The child as reader is neither to be patronized nor idolized: we talk to him as man to man."-C.S. Lewis

quote:
"You must write for children the same way you write for adults, only better." - Maxim Gorky

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

I like those quotes very much, and I agree with them.

I think the recent surge in YA literature--Harry Potter aside--comes in part from the realization that YA literature can be good and real, not patronizing or over-simplified.

I know a few adults who now look at the YA shelves for the good literature.

I wouldn't be ashamed to see my book on the YA shelves. (Okay, I'd be happy to see it on even the non-fiction shelves, or any shelves for that matter.)

Posted by mfreivald (Member # 3413) on :

quote:
How can you enhance or change the story in a way that it isn't just an adventure with youths?

By the way, I wasn't implying that it was "just" an adventure with youths. I was speaking to how adults might perceive it on the shelf.

Posted by RMatthewWare (Member # 4831) on :

quote:
I know a few adults who now look at the YA shelves for the good literature.

I'm one of them. There's some really good stuff in YA these days. Some authors look and kids and realize that they are very adult and they have to deal with adult things. They also realize that kids get a lot of the concepts that adults deal with. Then there are authors that forgot what they were like at that age and are very condescending. So it cuts both ways.

Posted by DebbieKW (Member # 5058) on :

The difference between YA and Adult fiction is not so much the protag's age as the problems that the child faces. I was taught (by a published childrens author) that children like to read about kids only a few years older than them. That's why the whole age thing comes into the equation. A 12-year-old protag might be YA or it might be adult, but a 30-year-old protag is only an adult story.

If your story has kids dealing with troubles inherent in growing up, it's probably more a YA. If your kid hero is dealing with how to lead an army, it's probably more an adult book despite the hero's age. As EE pointed out on the query you mention, it was partly the wording of the query that made it sound YA: "A talking dagger that just wants to be friends" (or something close to that).

Since one of your characters is 16, quite likely it falls into the adult category unless you especially want to market it as a YA.

Posted by I am destiny on :

I went to a conference where OSC was on a panel. He was asked a similar question. His answer was an adult book can have a young antag. If you step up the rest of the story.

~Destiny