Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Traveling, time, and story crafting.

This is topic Traveling, time, and story crafting. in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004495

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

I'm running into a problem here with my fantasy novel with the amount of time it takes to travel. There's no magic, so people are stuck hoofing it. In my case, my characters don't even have horses--they tend to walk or run everywhere. The problem is that it takes them weeks to get anywhere.

I've been addressing it in two different ways, either making something interesting happen en route, or just mention the time they've traveled and take the story up on their arrival. Both feel somewhat unsatisfying. The former can feel forced if I don't do it right, or there's just too much of it. The second seems to feel artificial. I mean, the characters are living, breathing, thinking, reacting in transit, just as they would resting somewhere. It's not as if their lives are on hold, and then boom! We've arrived at the gates of the town, let's all interact again!

I imagine something between the two would be in order, but I'm curious if other people have similar problems, and how they choose to deal with it.

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

Yeah that's a toughie...

I would do a combination of both. If there is something interesting that happens--and is relevant to the story you're telling, then expose it en route. Otherwise just blip the story forward. I would be bored by traveling for the sake of traveling, as a reader.

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

Just talk about the weather and the route, wild-life seen, difficulties getting food and water, and meeting another group of travellers (mildly interesting, threatening, sexy) who they banded together with for safety from bandits.

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

Sounds to me like a strategy that would add unnecessary length to your story. That's no big deal if you don't care, or if you want that Tolkienesque "drawn out" feeling. But I think anything that adds pages to read and offers very little plot will bore readers and discourage publishers.

My opinion.

Posted by Lynda (Member # 3574) on :

Does anything IMPORTANT happen while they're traveling? If not, skip it. Or invent some better way for them to travel. If not horses, why not ox-carts or donkeys? Or flying carpets? Whatever. Travel, as we all know, is boring unless something happens, until you get where you're going - that's where the "interest" lies. JMO.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Somewhere there are tables about how far somebody can walk, or run, or do a forced march at gunpoint, or whatever. I haven't seen 'em...I've heard Tolkien used some sort of military manual to figure out how far and fast Saruman's Orcs could march to Isengard and how far and fast Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli could follow in pursuit.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

I have a chart somewhere but now I can't find it. I have too much stuff.

How you do it is pretty much how I do it. If something happens that is interesting, I just say it happens and write about it. If it doesn't I say they travelled to so and so. I usually do a one paragraph description.

I guess I agree that you don't want to act like nothing happened and they stopped existing, but you don't want to describe a boring trip in detail either.

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

quote:
Sounds to me like a strategy that would add unnecessary length to your story. That's no big deal if you don't care, or if you want that Tolkienesque "drawn out" feeling. But I think anything that adds pages to read and offers very little plot will bore readers and discourage publishers.

I meant along the lines of:

The journey was long but easy. We met a group of traders on the way who had hired some guards. Consequently, we had no trouble with brigands. When we arrived at the city we asked around for lodgings...blah, blah..

Not a full length expo.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited December 18, 2007).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

What is your character's goal(s)?

What are the goal(s) of the antagonist(s)?

Is it likely that these goals will clash in such a way as to lead to a confrontation on the road?

If you are inventing new antagonists to create the conflicts on the road, then this would bore me because it does not further the plot. Everything that happens must further the plot.

I would much rather you just skip ahead and sum up the trip with a recap of the length of time, and maybe a note about the weather/travel conditions. Yeah, people breath, eat, and pee when we're not actively watching them on the page but really...I don't need to watch them pee unless it's REALLY important and I don't need to sit with them for a 3-week trip through the wilderness unless it's really important in some way.

Posted by Marzo (Member # 5495) on :

Journeys are usually good to gloss over with summaries (the proverbial epic music and helicopter shots over our running heroes). However, they can also provide the downtime that your characters need to ruminate on things, and perhaps experience some inner growth that may change their interrelationships, or their actions whenever they do reach that checkpoint. And if you've ever been backpacking with a group of people for a long period of time, you know that that in and of itself can generate interesting conflicts. Character and/or direct plot-related stuff is the only "interesting thing" I like to see happen in books with journeys.

Leave the random encounters to D&D, and summarize creatively when they get to their destination, is what I would suggest.

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

Does it need to be so far between places? Unless you have a reason for the place to be huge, just scrunch everything together. Kingdoms in a fantasy without high-speed travel don't have to be the size of the United States; Liechtenstein works just fine.

Of course, if you need them to travel so far that the climate changes, and you can't simply ascribe it to elevation, then you're stuck with glossing over their trips.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited December 18, 2007).]

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Just so you know, a fit human can travel on foot for a greater distance than a fit horse can carry a human or pull a wagon.

The average maximum for a horse and rider or a wagon to travel in one day is about 30 miles.

Large groups of riders and/or wagons tend to go even slower, and the larger the group, the slower it's going to go.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

quote:
The journey was long but easy. We met a group of traders on the way who had hired some guards. Consequently, we had no trouble with brigands. When we arrived at the city we asked around for lodgings...blah, blah..

Skadder's example might do if one character is describing his journey to another...as an actual real-time description of the event it is lacking in many ways. His character and his companions aren't named or described in number, nor are the traders or guards. What did they say to get in with the traders and under the protection of their guards---if they hired them, they might be reluctant to let someone else shelter under them without some recompense or reason. Who are the brigands and why does this character worry about trouble with them? What's the name of the city? What about lodgings---where did the traders and guards go, and why not see about hanging out with them in the city?

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

This is why Star Trek has the transporter and the warp drive. Have you noticed how they only go wrong when there's an interesting story lurking?

I think LOTR is a great example of how to do this.

Characters join and leave the party at various stages. They meet people along the way who, variously, give them help, or helpful gifts; add to their knowledge of their enemies; provide resting places; add colour and adventure, sometimes inconveniently but enabling our heroes to show their metal. Some adventures take us to people who remember far back, and help us understand the motivations of good and bad characters. And as someone said, on a long journey there are fallings out and makings up.

The party even breaks up, so now we're reading several stories at once and tension is increased by our hope that they'll all meet up again, that the cavalry will arrive just in time.

I think that in some ways Tolkein saw the long journey as a device for binding together many elements of a complex story and numerous backstories, just as Star Trek's transporter is a device for avoiding tedium.

Hope this helps,
Pat

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

quote:
Skadder's example might do if one character is describing his journey to another...as an actual real-time description of the event it is lacking in many ways.

Really? That was some of my best work...oh, well back to the video games then...

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

In some ways that's what chapter breaks are for. If the end of Chapter 7 is them leaving, if nothing relevant to the plot happens on the trip, Chapter 8 can start with them at the location.

Show me the travel (or the portion of it) that matters. If nothing happens, don't drag me through there. You can gloss that travel over.

In The Grand Tour by Patricia C. Wrede and Caroline Stevermer, the MCs are on their wedding tour through Europe. While there is magic, travel is restricted to mundane means - ships, wagons, and such. The reader is only taken along on those trips when something important happens or, since they are writing in their journals, when they want to complain about the cold. It is a good example of how travel can be dealt with.

Posted by TheOnceandFutureMe on :

It's your world. Why not move the cities closer together? If the location of the cities wouldn't make sense with the geography, change the geography. I can think of a dozen reasons this might not work in a story, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[This message has been edited by TheOnceandFutureMe (edited December 20, 2007).]