The way that 13 lines are cut off seems to change. Now Kathleen, I am not accusing you of doing so intentionally or negligently, just that it is happening. I have been keeping an eye on the various edits and have noticed variations appearing.

The following three stories were cut by Kathleen over the past 3 weeks and I use them as examples:

a) The Guardians.

"Grandpa, guess what we found," Miheal and Colm ran up the porch steps and pounded across the plank floor.
"A bird's nest?" Old Kevin said. "No, you're too excited for that. I can hear the devil in your voice! A snake, perhaps? Tell me the color and let me feel his scales--I'll tell you his story."
"No, no. Much better," Miheal said. "We followed the creek into the woods, just a little ways. We found these carved stones, big and small, all in a row. There's hundreds--"
"More than that," his brother interrupted. He placed their prize in his grandfather's hands.
The stone was cold. It radiated cold, as if the sun hadn't seen it in a long time. Kevin ran his finger through deep grooves-- muzzle, teeth, claws. The cold burnt his fingers, and he

Now according to my IE box that is nearly 14 whole lines. It clearly states Kathleen edited this entry, and I am certain she checked it.

b)Blinds Man Bluff

This batch of recruits to the militia was like all the rest. No respect for a blind man. “Hellert! Step forward!” The young half-giant made it known he wouldn’t be pushed around by a hindered human. Kevin followed his heavy footsteps and muffled grumbles. When the seven-foot tall lad was a few feet away Kevin tossed his bamboo pole to him. “Knock me down and you can go home, course completed.”
Hellert never hesitated. Kevin heard the pebbles shift under his feet and the air whistled from the bamboo pole. In a motion as smooth as a dancer, Kevin ducked, swept a leg under Hellert’s feet and snatched the pole from his grasp as he fell.
“Werewolves attack at night and rely on smell to find you. Mages employ fog to mask an advance. Witches will use

This was also edited by Kathleen, yet it measures only 13 lines in the same box.

c) Allah's Wrathful Gaze

The scout’s hand shook as he pointed to the dune. “It lies on the other side, my Lord.”
Caliph Abu Bakr eyed the dune. The cool evening breeze plucked at his robes. Yes, let’s see. He began to walk up the hot sand.
“Caliph, you must not go—it could be a desert djinn.”
“Perhaps.” Abu Bakr turned to grin at the shivering guard. “If Allah wills it so--but Allah put it here, so I will look.”
As he crested the dune he gasped. Before him, half buried in molten, glowing sand, lay a vast metal structure. To one side lay a winged creature with a body like a man. It was totally covered in intricate armour and a single crystal was set in its helm. An angel--a dead one. Then it stirred.

This last on is 12 lines according to my box, also edited by Kathleen.

So what is going on and what can we do about it?

If you click on the edit post icon above this post you can review the comparative size of these posts next to each other (and within the same box) and you will note an almost two line difference (12-14) which represents nearly a 130 extra characters (letters, spaces, punctuation, etc.). This difference represents a fair bit of text, description--in total it could be your hook!

I am not a revolutionary but I think we possibly need to re-think how this is done, so people's endings (of thier carefully crafted intros) aren't cut off.

I would suggest the following:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It looks wierd because it isn't courier so the letters are different sizes, but they look the same in the posting box.

This (on mine anyway) represents a perfect 13 lines of text. If someone cuts and pastes this into there own browser they will see if letters fall off onto the next line. If each line is perfect they know they have the right size box and can proceed to fill it with there own (more interesting) work. It would also provide a no arguments template for any new-comers etc. It is (I believe) 832 characters, 13 lines of 64 characters.

I can't think of a better way than the above for checking your own dialogue box. It is also possible to cut and past this into Word to ensure parity.

Obviously this would need to be officially adopted to work.

*Gulps* Don't ban me, She Who Must Be Obeyed ( surname: But Certainly Allows Nice People To Question Her)--perhaps I am doing you a favour as this could be posted on your 'Ensuring it's 13 lines' post and stop the debate forever.

Adam (possibly last ever post!)

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

MMMM....One too many!
 

Am I correct regarding the three intro's and the variations between them? According to how you see it on the internet, I mean?

edited: Just realised you may have meant I miss counted them--I originally stated there were 65 characters on each line, when in fact there are 64. If so apologies. If you meant there was an extra M, you are wrong--all the lines are the same.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

I have removed any bias by different browsers and the result is the same.

I transfered all the passages to MSWord and adjusted the margins so the proposed standard went from one margin to the other perfectly--no gaps, each line of letters from begining to end.

This was done in courier 12 pt.

The top passage was 14 lines, the second was 13 lines and the third was 12 lines.

If you do this in MSWord, you will see that the number of lines is different.

This means the number of characters (including letters, punctuation, space and unused space at the end of some lines) is variable and NOT consistent.

Tiergan,

I know what you mean about this thread, but I am willing to take a bullet for the team--if it comes to that.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

No matter how you slice it though they all have different amount of lines.
 

Cheers,
Pat
 

a
b
c
d
e
f
g
h
i
j
k --slider appeared.

If you are only meant to put text until the slider appears, then none of the example texts are correct and are all way too long. On that basis I think that as a criterion of 13 lines it must be wrong. Or certainly to use it as THE criterion is wrong, as it must vary.

It is easier to say:

Use a box of 13x64 characters, including spaces, letters, punctuation and including unused space at the end of paragraphs.

How to find out:

On your word processor press a single letter until you get a single line 64 letters long. Adjust margins so it is no more and no less than sixty four characters by using the word count feature (on MSWord it counts the characters).

Thirteen lines of this formatted line is correct.

Or...use the character template (see above--although would need to be adjusted officially).

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

Question: Was the 1 line too short post edited by the author, too? Sometimes the author will also backtrack and take out the cut-off line.

Sometimes Kathleen allows a partial line to go over--she does give a little leeway.

Your character posting:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Does fit exactly into the posting box, but if you include the spaces and punctuations in words, you would come up with the same bumber. Also, the letters are not the same size--unlike courier they do not take up the same amount of space.

Question 2: Did you hit enter at the end of each row?

May 30, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

Regarding your question regarding the intros, they were all edited by Kathleen, and she only does that on the competition to cut entries to size. It still doesn't explain the disparity in the cuts.

The one that was too short I read when it was first posted--as did you, as you posted a critiqued version in your scoring which shows the final lines--and it has only been edited by Kathleen. Only Jayson can edit his post(for himself or the author) and it would show an edit stamp--it doesn't.

IB, your post has made this page to wide, you couldn't edit it could you? I have to keep scrolling sideways.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 30, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 30, 2008).]
 

Never Wipe Out?
Native Wasp Organisation?

I give up--what does it mean?
 

In the edit box for this topic, I see those three examples as you describe them (14, 13, 12).

Which tells me that maybe the edit boxes are not the same in all topics.

As Inarticulate Babbler has said, I do tend to give a little on the 13 lines (mainly because I can see that someone has tried to follow the rules) and I may leave a 14th line in place because of the Mozilla Firefox discrepancy.

I don't ever cut to 14 lines instead of 13 lines deliberately, though. If I'm going to cut, I cut. So that 14th line up there concerns me.

I'm willing to use your alphabet template (or whatever you want to call it) to check the sizes of the edit and reply boxes on each topic before I begin my hacking and slashing.

And I'm willing to go to the topic (if you will point the way) in which the 14 lines above is posted and cut the extra line off of it.

But maybe we could also ask ourselves if we're not getting a little "Freudian" (so to speak) about this.
 

I am less concerned about 14 lines remaining up than 13 lines becoming 12. The 14 line one was from last weeks competition (week 8).

Thanks for understanding, Kathleen. I know this has been a hot topic previously--but if you see a disparity, it's worth trying to correct the method to avoid future problems.

It may also be useful to revise your instructions on how to ensure you have exactly thirteen lines in your post on the subject. People are often directed to your post on the subject when they post an intro wrongly. Clarifying it for them further (e.g. using something like the instructions I drafted above) may help eliminate this as a future topic.

Adam
 

quote:

---

I was under the impression that by my browser, the text had to fit in the box without the slider appearing,

---

Ahh--the slider! I've been struggling with conformation with the box since the start of the contest; my story openings always fit into box on my computer without scrolling, but generally turned out to be too long when they made it to the post. I never actually counted the lines, just verified I could see the whole thing in one view.