I've got a sich, but don't have the vocabulary for it. In early medieval times, what would you call a group of soldiers/warriors that are sent by a warlord to investigate strange and spooky goings-on in a remote village? A troop? I'm thinking maybe 20 guys. Any ideas appreciated.
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
A detachment? A patrol? A band of warriors? Whatever thou thinkest soundeth most truthful to thine ear. Presumably you aren't writing in medieval English and so the use of generic military terms should be acceptable.
Posted by Jeff M (Member # 7828) on :
Detachment was the first thing that came to my mind. But company would work too. Or are you thinking of a specific name for the group -- something like Dark Knights or Phantom Paladins?
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
I think company or band would be great. Thanks for your replies. Very helpful!
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I always understood "a troop" to mean one soldier (as in 10,000 troops = 10,000 soldiers).
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Troop is ambiguous. It could mean a soldier (as Kathleen pointed out) but, only if there are a group of them, and a troop can be the collective, too. (F Troop.) Usually and investigation in medieval times would be delegated to the sheriff and his men.
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
These men are sent by a local lord/clan chief. They're not quite at the point where they have a separate law-enforcement body. But another interesting idea to consider. I'm going to do a little surfing on medieval sheriffs.
Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :
A patrol?
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
F Troop was a collective? Is that anything like being communist?
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Posse comes from Middle Latin...if the term doesn't reek too much of Westerns for people, it might apply here...
[edited 'cause I just couldn't stand how I phrased it originally]
[This message has been edited by Robert Nowall (edited June 01, 2008).]
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
Yes Yes, use "Collective", it adds a touch of Sci-fi. Don't have green light everywhere though because you might get sued. And use the term "cleft in twain" somewhere in the story, as this is my favorite medieval expression.
"He crept up on her silently. But what he didn’t know was that she always slept with a sword under her pillow...."
It could be a story about Lorena Bobbit’s early ancestors.
Words for groups that haven’t been suggested.
Herd Flock School Gaggle Murder Gang Congregation Class Party Gathering Drove Pack Assembly Bunch Bundle Crowd Horde Mass Multitude Accumulation Throng Heap Meeting Congress Assemblage Swarm Mob Host Cluster Team Lineup Band Panel Huddle Rabble Squad, YES that’s it, SQUAD Yeay….
Your servant always, Tracy
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
you better just read the thing, tnwilz!
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
OK
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
Gosh, you're easy Posted by WouldBe (Member # 5682) on :
I think in the early middle ages, knights were basically hired thugs. It was later that their status improved to that of gentry.
'Vassal' might also work for you.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Is that anything like the New Jersey conjunction of "Yassle", in which the word you is mixed with...?
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
Could be, as Yassle is the ritual opening of the volley of insults that precedes the contest of strength, correct?
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
Cohort?
Posted by Doctor (Member # 7736) on :
I like the word detachment, a company--in my mind--is larger, many of us think in modern terms and a company should be multiple platoons. So, 100 men at least. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
You're not wrong, Doctor. A company in modern terms is pretty big (120+ people in the USMC, for instance). Even if companies back in the day were smaller, I wouldn't count on the reader knowing that.
"Detachment" sounds too modern to me.
How about "squad"? That's about 13 people in the modern military, and is probably generic enough to be useful in early medieval times.
EDIT: sorry, I just realized that tnwilz already said "squad". I must have missed it the first time. So consider this post an agreement.
[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited June 02, 2008).]
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
an elite squad?
Posted by micmcd (Member # 7977) on :
If I recall from watching Nick at Nite reruns when I was a kid, F Troop was an old TV comedy. Vaguely like MASH without quite as much of the genius that made MASH a classic. The war for the setting was the Civil War (the very end of it). "F Troop" was the name of the entire group of soldiers stationed at the base (I think).
Don't have time to do a wikipedia time-waster, so I didn't read the whole thing, but if you are interested:
micmcd, I'm old. I grew up watching F Troop when it was brand new, on a black and white TV. Dang, Larry Storch was hot! I was actually just making a (very small) joke.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
lmao - Deb. You know I used F Troop as an example to be a smart @$$, right? It was like a triple-pun. However, on a more serious note, Squad and Squadron date to at least 1562 to 1649, and patrol can be dated to 1664. Troop, brigade, company and Herlequin/Hellequin are also some you might ponder.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited June 02, 2008).]
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
I think Herlequin would be a bit confusing--too associated with the Commedia dell'Arte character.
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
IAB, I not only look forward to your puns, I rely on them.Thanks for the additional info, by the way. I'm looking for 11th century at the latest.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Consider the office as well as the group. Office meaning a position or a specific task of business, not a cubicle.
At the end of medieval times and into the 19th Century inquisitors investigated heresy. I would think that a paranormal investigation of that era might be headed by a similar official, perhaps a cleric. A cleric investigating beatification or canonization was called a Metropolitan or Primate.
Another possibility is a magistrate with his entourage of deputies. For lack of a qualified investigator, the warlord sends the next closest official, who's far out of his league.
Perhaps philosophers or astronomers, the scientific investigators of the age.
Keep in mind that taverns and inns were not commonplace until the Renaissance. Medieval travelers enjoyed the churlish hospitality of abbeys.
[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited June 03, 2008).]
Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :
Ghostbusters was the first thing that came to mind, but then I read 11th century...
Personally, I would prefer simplicity. Squad is nice because it sounds familiar. If you will be referencing them often, using the name you are searching for, keep it simple. No one wants to read "The Clerical Assemblage" forty times in a row. A "Band of Sanctuary" is a bit easier on the eyes, and the word Band can be repeated on its own.
Although I like squad, it does not seem to fit in this instance. The problem I had with most of Tracy's words (impressive btw) was the informality most of them inferred. It sounded like you were looking for more of an organized group, correct? Just a thought, but if so, make sure it sounds organized. Mob or swarm sounds like the cleric picked up twenty or so men from the tavern.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Given how organized the craft and life of warfare was in medieval / feudal times, there must be some specific terms for this kind of troop from a warlord, and someone must have a list. (I used to have a "Life in Medieval Times" book, but I don't know where it is under my clutter. I don't know if that had that kid of list.)
(Tolkien used "troop" to describe the thirteen Dwarves (and one Hobbit and one Wizard) in The Hobbit at one point. According to my dictionary it derives from French and Middle Latin, but the word has a decidedly modern flavor to it...)
Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :
As far as I can see from a quick check, they used 'platoon' at the time of the Hundred Years' War. The Romans must have had a term for a small troop under a decurion, but I don't think the name is recorded anywhere.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
According to a book on the Roman Imperial Army I could find, the Roman legions were broken down like this:
Eight men equal one contubernium Ten contubernia equal one century Two centuries equal one maniple Six centuries equal one cohort Ten cohorts equal one legion (The first cohort has five double centuries)
Posted by Rommel Fenrir Wolf II (Member # 4199) on :
In the US ARMY 20 guys is about a Platoon. Although to my knowledge we have any where from 25 to 30 at any given time. The smallest is the cooks with 10.
RFW2nd
Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :
Thanks, I was forgetting the contubernium.
[This message has been edited by RobertB (edited June 05, 2008).]
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Hey, I didn't remember the term until I looked it up in the book.
I remembered where my "medieval life" book is, too. Down at my parents' house taking up space on their living room shelves...right in the place I put it in, about thirty years ago. Inaccessible for now. If I remember I'll grab it next time I'm down there...
However, on a more serious note, Squad and Squadron date to at least 1562 to 1649, and patrol can be dated to 1664. Troop, brigade, company and Herlequin/Hellequin are also some you might ponder.