The 13 lines, both short story and novel, are a great place to hear the opinions of others on individual work. We can use the advise to help improve the writing, give us food for thought or ignore it completely.
I am tired of seeing rebuttals to the critiques. You don't need to explain why you wrote something a certain way--it's your work. Take the advise for what it is: an honest desire to help.
Reading through and critiquing them takes time. Time the writer could be using on his own interests.
I'd just like to see everyone play nice.
Gina
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
A trend I have also noticed.
Some get confused with questions that arise. In many instances they are good. It shows what the prose is inducing.
Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :
I would gladly leave the opinions of others unrebutted, but I find there to be almost no feedback on this site. My first crack at 13 for novels received 1 comment in eleven days. My latest short story 13 got my hopes up with 3 comments and 2 offers to read in the first 12 hours and then nothing since.
I can't be rebutting my critics I don't want to scare them away.
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
It can be very difficult to get help with a full novel. It's a long, intensive process for both reader and writer. I was lucky enough to find two people through hatrack with whom I formed a novel critique group. We have done two novels together -- each time with a fourth person who disappeared before the process ended. I have now decided to stick with the two of them. We don't even do formal groups anymore -- I'll read a full novel for either one of them any time. It takes a lot of time and work to build a rapport like that with a writing buddy but I totally recommend seeking out people who are willing to go through a novel crit process with you and to keep seeking them out until you find a couple that you can count on.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Ha! This has been an ongoing issue, and will probably never go away entirely. However, I agree.
Cheyne, don't be shy about bumping up your entries. Sometimes, for whatever reason, posts get overlooked.
Posted by Pyraxis (Member # 7990) on :
If it weren't for the electronic rights issue, I would love to see a forum on here where novels could be posted a chapter at a time. If the first 13 lines of a novel don't get any offers from readers, there isn't really space here for a second chance, even if your writing improves. I understand that's how it works with editors, but I'm here to refine the craft. I already know I'm not ready for publication quite yet.
To me it's invaluable to be able to get feedback on chapters as I write them--and much less intimidating to commit to critiquing someone else's novel a chapter at a time than all at once.
What about a group where we could post brief summaries or introductions to chapters as we write them, and others could could offer critiques one piece at a time? There seem to be a lot of private email circles going on behind the scenes, but that system makes it hard for newbies to integrate themselves and participate.
[This message has been edited by Pyraxis (edited June 16, 2008).]
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
There are forums out there where you can post novels a chapter at a time. I'm not sure how useful they are. I tried to get involved in a yahoo group like that and my observation was that very often, writers stopped after a few chapters.
I've also found that submitting chapters from an unfinished novel one at a time is usually a recipe for me to quit. If I'm stuck, there are a couple of people I trust to take a look at what I've done and try to help me muddle through, but typically I Only like to get involved in novel critiques of finished novels. Otherwise, either I stop or they do, and either way it is VERY difficult to get the end of a novel looked at.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
The only time I had people I didn't know critique a novel--and I must say they did a fairly good job I thought--was on Critters Workshop. As you may or may not know you can request critters to do an entire novel and as they get a large amount of credit (you earn getting critiques by getting credit for doing them) people do tend to do them fairly regularly. I still do some critiques over there although fewer than I used to as I tend to depend on a few writer friends who I trade critiques with.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited June 16, 2008).]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:If the first 13 lines of a novel don't get any offers from readers, there isn't really space here for a second chance, even if your writing improves.
Actually, you can post the first 13 lines from more than one chapter of a novel here. (Edited to clarify: you can post the first 13 lines from the beginnings of more than one chapter, though you should probably do it one chapter at a time.)
quote:What about a group where we could post brief summaries or introductions to chapters as we write them, and others could could offer critiques one piece at a time?
You can also post summaries (in the Fragments and Feedback for Novels area) and get feedback on them, and the 13-line rule doesn't apply to summaries, so you can post not-so-brief ones as well as brief summaries.
"Fragments" don't just mean the first 13 lines; they can be plot-outlines, character sketches, bits of description--whatever you need feedback on FROM NOVELS (though we ask that you limit fragments of actual text to 13 lines).
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited June 16, 2008).]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
annepin said:
quote:Cheyne, don't be shy about bumping up your entries. Sometimes, for whatever reason, posts get overlooked.
Amen!
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
By the way, I've posted my "novel critique suggestions" in the Ways to Critique area (here) .
Posted by Pyraxis (Member # 7990) on :
Very helpful, Kathleen, thanks! I didn't realize it was okay to post from more than the first chapter.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Hmm. I just checked, and I don't think that's actually posted anywhere. Maybe I'll put it in the description for the Fragments and Feedback for Novels area.
