This is topic Not good enough yet? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Recently I've been feeling very frustrated. I've got story ideas I really like and am excited about, but when I sit down to write them I feel like I don't have the tools yet to pull off the sort of story I envision. I write it anyway, I mean, not like I'm going to sit a wait until I get better to write the story, but ultimately I feel very unsatisfied with the result, and can't help thinking, "If only I were a better writer this would work..."

Does anyone else feel this way? How do you cope with it? I've been thinking I should strive to write simpler stories for now, until I've got a handle on those.
 


Posted by innesjen (Member # 6126) on :
 
I guess I've felt that way, and usually I'll put that idea on the back burner until I feel that I can do it justice. I've started a lot of projects and have yet to finish them because I wasn't ready for the challenge they posed, but I know that someday I'll be able to sit down and finish them or they just weren't meant to be written by me.
 
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
 
I have identical sentiments. What I do to reach new heights is sketch a particular concept in story. Plot: draw a two-dimensional ziggurat and mark the points of plot on it, inciting moment, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution. Then I sketch the points of the story for each scene corresponding to the points of plot.

I'm studying in these areas to get my current story written, which is far less frustrating and progressing more rapidly and efficiently than my previous ones.

Friedman's plot types, tending toward a meld of more than one type
Theme
Forces of antagonism
Voice, person and tense
Perspective, point of view character
Psychic access; close, limited, remote, objective omniscient
Narrator's tone or attitude toward the theme or topic
Auxilliary voices, perspectives, and accesses
Rhetorical set; correlated imagery, symbolism, schemes, and tropes
Change or lack of change that the protagonist experiences at the climax
Protagonist's predicament
Inciting cause and relevant, corollary causes that drive the plot
Scale, proportion, magnitude, and pace of antagonism, and problems and progress of the protagonist
Resolution context
Protagonist's goal, desire, purpose, need, or influence upon the outcome
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
I'm very ... bi-polar about how I feel regarding my work. Usually, while I'm writing, I feel pretty good. Then I get away from it and start thinking, oh man it probably sucks. Then I re-read it and think "it's ok, could be better, but not horrible." Even about my very best stuff (guaged on how other people react after reading it) I still have very mixed feelings.

I think it's perfectly natural for an artist (in this case a writer) to magnify a piece's imperfections and be highly critical and unsatisfied. I remember talking to a film director who'd made a brilliant short for Sundance, which was accepted and viewed beating out thousands and thousands of entries, and his only comment was "it could have been a lot better." When pressed for why he said "if you keep working on it, and staring at it, you'll never reach a point where it feels perfect, to you it will always seem incomplete, and you'll always find things you want to tweak to no end, but at some point you just have to say enough is enough, and let it go."
 


Posted by Tiergan (Member # 7852) on :
 
I think we all do. As far as coping, I don't know, some days are better than others. The really bad days, nothing gets done, no writing, no editing, nothing. Well-the house gets cleaned. All I can suggest is keep writing. The best advice, and I have just begun to believe in it, is write everyday. There is so much to learn, and writers in general learn the best by doing it. I can be told something a hundred times, but until it comes up in my story, I can't comprehend it.

Remember, being a writer is persistence, and the hardest part of that, isnt the rejections, cause we will get them, but self-doubt. If you doubt, you don't write, and you don't push yourself to improve.

You can write, and everyday you do, WILL make you a better writer.

[This message has been edited by Tiergan (edited August 07, 2008).]
 


Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :
 

My "not good enough" episodes are almost always temporal based. Exempli gratia: For an upcoming science fiction novel idea, I've got a half dozen rather large audio files of me discussing certain relativistic issues that influence the plot and the characters. It's one of my more ambitious ideas, and I'm very much looking forward to the challenge of writing this story.

I recorded these files six months ago. And they'll probably stay untouched another few months, until I'm convinced I'm capable of meeting the challenge that the concepts present.

My writing ability has nothing to do with my hesitation. Simply put, I want a large block of uninterrupted time where I can storyboard and diagram all the interactions between the relativistic events and my characters' antics. And, if I just happen to find the inspiration to write out a few scenes during this process, all the better. I'm balking because I believe the fragmented slivers of time I currently have to work with (for the near future, at least) will create a disjointed pattern of transcription and interpretation that will ransack my story's potential. Unfortunately, I have kids, so uninterrupted time doesn't exist at my house.

So, the files will sit a while longer, until my enthusiasm for this story talks me into taking a stab at the fragmented approach afterall.

But, then again, it's not like I don't have other story ideas to work on.

S!
S!...C!


 


Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :
 
What you do is you enter a challenge run by Annepin ...

Until recently I had been using short stories and flash challenges to explore tools of writing I'll need for the larger stories I want to write when I feel ready. One story explored handling relationships, another action, a third an entirely alien milieu, a fourth went into Fantasy instead of SF, and a fifth was about learning to present two sides of an argument and not just the side I believe strongly.

I thought I had found my voice and now just needed to polish it into some longer stories--and began to feel that although I do have some kind of voice, it's not unique enough to be 'better than Heinlein' (BTW, plug--August's Ready for Market closes tomorrow).

So when one Annepin suggested writing and submitting a story in a week, I thought I'd try and forced myself to come up with a fresh story--new characters, plot, milieu. It actually draws on some of the earlier stories, but has some newness as well. Most important, the setting and principle character requires a totally different narrative style, one I've never tried before. So I'm at once excited, and scared I won't finish it by Saturday--but if I have to delay and lose face, I'd rather do that than rush it unnecessarily. The delay, if I need it, would be to explore the new tools I'll need to tell it.

When I used to play jazz guitar and my solos for a particular piece began to sound stale, I'd change the key, and that would force invention, force my fingers into different patterns. I think I'm trying to suggest is that one does something similar in writing--force oneself out of that comfort zone.

Not sure if this helps or not,
Pat

 


Posted by MrsBrown (Member # 5195) on :
 
I have huge self-doubts too, and fragmented time. That's probably true for a great many of us.

That persistence and committment stuff sounds really good, but I'm not there today. That's why I'm not a writer right now. When I write, I'm a writer.

I've been tempted to shy away from my Grand Novel idea and practice with throw-away work, so 1. I will feel freer to experiment/learn and 2. I will not do a disservice to the Grand Novel. But, I don't have the passion for throw-away stuff. I'd rather follow my passion and accept imperfection. After all, if I am a Real Writer, there will be more grand ideas. if I fail in this Grand Novel, there will be another and it will be better.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
This is more than just the usual self doubting. Believe me, I have that. All the time! This feeling is a bit more specific than that. When writing I know I just don't even have the tools to do what I want to do. It's not a matter of retrospective, of looking at what I've written. It's more knowing what effect I want a scene or my writing to have, and yet now knowing how to pull it off, if that makes sense.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I like the idea of a new angle, or approaching it with a different tack. (And funny you should mention that darn challenge, TS. That's how this all came about. That darn Annepin! What was she thinking?)

 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I'm totally there, anne. LOL I sometimes actually *procrastinate* writing because I feel like if only I get a little better, then my stories will be better and I'll be better.

My writing time is so limited as it is, sometimes what I will do is read a writing book in lieu of actually writing. Yes, I'm an idiot. I need to write. If anyone has that handy-dandy kick-in-the-pants attachment for the Hatrack Utility Belt, that would help a ton. Thanks!
 


Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
 
What tools do you feel that you don't have, annepin? I frequently have ups and downs about my stories, going from it's really good to it sucks and back again. I'm not sure that I feel that I don't feel I have the tools. (I may feel that my execution isn't what I want.) So I'm wondering exactly what tools you feel you haven't developed yet and how you feel you'll develop them?
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Hm... interesting question. Maybe it is more a question of execution or refinement.

The huge thing for me right now is characterization. I'm developing a character with very complex motives and a conflicted history, and who is repressed and generally clueless about his own feelings and how to cope with them. I've read stories that do this so well, but I find myself feeling clumsy when I try it. He either seems capricious or just plain confusing, though in fact, the way I "feel" him, all of his actions, even the contradictory-seeming ones, are tied together. I know I can characterize well. I've done it with other characters and have been very happy with them. But this requires a lighter, perhaps more mature touch.

My descriptions of characters feel gaudy and unsophisticated, or just imprecise.

I also struggle with the "show don't tell" thing with motive. I believe that the best crafted characters are ones whose motives emerge through their actions. I have yet to figure out what scenes best play out their motives.

And suspense! I have a lot to learn there. And tied to that, story crafting, especially for a slow moving story where emotions and internal, rather than external, forces drive the plot.

Some this I accept I'll develop and learn as I mature as a writer. Reading authors I admire certainly helps. I study how they craft their stories, how they present complex motives, and how they might make a conflicted character believable, rather than just weird or ill-conceived.
 


Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :
 
In answer to a question, OSC says,

quote:

You said: "I made it a point throughout the novel to not tell motivations, but try to show them."

And you did this because ... of those morons who told you "show don't tell"? Because motivation is unshowable. It must be told. (In fact, most things must be told.) The advice "show don't tell" is applicable in only a few situations -- most times, most things, you tell-don't-show. I get so impatient with this idiotic advice that has been plaguing writers for generations.

Motivation is precisely the one thing that cannot be shown.


More at
http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/2000-08-02-4.shtml

And, great question, Jeanne, one we should all ask ourselves from time to time. Einstein did it often, asking himself what mathematics he needed to solve his latest problem, and of course ultimately inventing Relativity.

Not sure if this helps, hope it does,
Pat

[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited August 07, 2008).]
 


Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
I've reached a level of frustration, where I think my stuff is good enough to be published---better than some awful stuff that is published, actually---but I can't convince the editors of this.

That's why a couple of months ago now, I took three of my last rejected stories and set up a website and put them online. Whether anybody's read them, I can't say---a couple of people talked about reading them when I first mentioned it. But they're out there now, for anyone to look at.

Of course, I've revised my opinion about my own work. Everything I wrote before, oh, 1992, seems thoroughly bad and deservedly rejected---the editors did me a favor by rejecting them. And I've reread a couple stories I've written since, and they sure went downhill from what I thought when I was writing them...
 




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