Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Submitting early attempts

This is topic Submitting early attempts in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by alliedfive (Member # 7811) on :

So, the September Ready for Market group got me thinking today. I am really new to the whole writing thing, and have one nearly-complete story to my name (3 more in various stages of rewriting). I am fully aware, due to crits from others, that it isn't very good. Now, I could probably chop and polish it into something publishable for some small market somewhere.

The question is, should I? I mean, is it worth it to submit something that you know isn't very good? Other than seeing your name in print? My inclination is to wait until I have something dynamite to unleash myself upon the publishing world.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :

Why not? The worst that can happen is that it will get published.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

What the hell are you talking about? That story you wrote was complete, it may even stand a chance. I bet you aren't looking forward to rewriting it (Something I need to do to a couple of ones I wrote but am avoiding at this moment). Don't sell yourself short. Throw that dart and agive it a try. You may hit the bullseye.

Posted by alliedfive (Member # 7811) on :

I guess maybe I was thinking that the worst that could happen is I send someone a below-average story and am remembered for it.

Also, I don't want to pour a bunch of effort into something that's ceiling is "pretty good".

On an unrelated note, right now I'm trying to get a pipeline of stories going so I have something to work on while I let my first draft stew. Is that how everyone else works? For example:

Week 1: Story1 - Draft1
Week 2: Story2 - Draft1, Story1 - Draft2
Week 3: Story3 - Draft1, Story2 - Draft2
Week 4: Story3 - Draft2, Story1 - Draft3, Story2 - Draft3

etc. How many should I be juggling simultaneously?

Snapper, you may be on to something. I feel I have progressed significantly in the weeks since I wrote Golb's Daughter and maybe I'm scared that to do it right I would have to start from scratch. Hmm...

[This message has been edited by alliedfive (edited September 17, 2008).]

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

No you don't have to start from scratch but you were probably told that it had issues that you can see but really don't want to deal with.
For example, I have three that I need to look at. One I think is a good enough of an idea that it could get published at a place like Asimov, but it has parts to it that I recgonize need dealt with but I groan just thinking about it.
A second that a few said it would be a good Analog submit but it needs a couple of things done to make it more believeable. One is the ending (which after talking to skadder, I think I can do) and another is changing a small part in the middle but then I need to comb over it to make sure the rest makes sense after that change (a chore that I'm not prepared to do at the moment).
And a third (my Ready for Market entry) that has a deadline for a magazine at the end of this month. This one has mostly grammar issues but Gardner pointed out that it is mostly 'Telling opposed to showing', a crit I am sensitive to but must agree with. A word count ceiling, and a limited time crunch, prevents me from fixing it but I know because of it I am unlikely to make a sale.
Nevertheless I got to try. After all, not trying is the same as trying and getting a rejection. Actually it's worse than a rejection, for success is 10% inspiration and 90% determination.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

I have spent a lot of time doubting my ability to write more than slop, thinking that if only I read one more book about writing, get one more crit, learn a little more, try a little harder, that *then* it'll be ready for market, then it'll be better than a turd.

But you know what? It's fine. I have looked back recently and realized that what I'm writing and what I've written is just fine. Some is better than fine, and a few pieces are on the shelf because I'm not happy with them and don't want them out until I can give them that attention to get them to where I'm satisfied with them, but the majority of what I've written is just *fine.* I need to stop second-guessing myself, follow Heinlein rules more, and of course continue to learn and grow and expect my skills to improve over time.

But here's the thing - successful writers publish. To publish you have to put stuff out on the market. If I keep hesitating to get my stuff on the market I will never get it published. Having it rejected is better than having it sit on my hard drive.

I'm sure most published authors have pieces that they look back at and say "Oh boy, I've sure learned a lot since I wrote *that*" but still, they have that history to look back at. Just think of it as a chance to build your personal writing history.

Good luck!

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

If you are improving, then sending out something that is bettered by later stories only makes the later stories look all that much better. (Does that make sense?)

I'll try again.

If you send out a story that is rejected because it isn't quite good enough for publication, and then you send a story that is a little better, but still rejected, and then you send one that is even better, all to the same editor, by the time you send the fourth one that is the best of all, that editor may know your name and have noticed your progress and be watching for the story that you send that actually is good enough for publication. By the fourth or fifth story, you could be getting encouraging personal notes from the editor, even.

So send out your best each time, and make certain that your best keeps getting better, and the editor will begin to notice and hope for you.

The point is to keep trying and to keep improving.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :

Kathleen,

Did I catch that right? Editors like to get the same story sent back to them? You mean, if I send a reworked rejected story from let's say, Asimov, they'll look at it again and not reject it out of hand?

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

"Is it worth it to submit something that you know isn't very good?"

No.

If I know a story isn't very good, it stays in my WIP folder and does not progress to the ToPublish folder.

I know that several of my pieces are not good enough to submit, so they're still WIPs. They're not good enough by my standard, and I know so through the crits I've received from valued Hatrack friends and--sorry guys, but more important--through my inner editor. I rework them until they're as good as I can make them, until I've invested the amount of time I think they're worth. Then, and only then, good or not, they get submitted.

That means I'm slow to market, and while those I submit might still not be very good, they're as good as I'm willing and able to make them.

Cheers,
Pat

Posted by alliedfive (Member # 7811) on :

Talespinner, if I read that right, then you always submit everything eventually. Is that the case?

I think the reason I'm hesitating to submit my first shaky attempts is that I know I will do better, and I am more interested in the future stories I will write that won't start nearly so flawed.

It feels like lipstick on a pig to keep reworking these stories. (hopefully no one takes that politically )

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

quote:
Editors like to get the same story sent back to them?

No!

I was talking about improving with the next story. Please read my post again. Each story was better than the previous because the writer had improved as a writer, not each story was the same story rewritten.

Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :

For no other reason than to test the waters, submit. Get that first submission out of the way. The trepidation of a first submission is a paralyzing experience for many writers. A full-dress rehearsal with a manuscript is an exhilarating experience, climaxed by receiving a first rejection letter. I frame my rejections and hang them on my Wall of Shame. It's not really a wall of shame, more one of fame. My diplomas, trophies, certificates of achievement, and artwork are up there too.

Conversely, it might just float someone's boat.

[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited September 17, 2008).]

Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :

allied,

You must submit. Even if you think it sucks. Even if your group thinks it sucks. Neither you nor your group are editing any of the major markets, nor can any of you buy anything.

Let the professional editors decide if what you have finished is good enough. Otherwise, once that first manuscript is out the door, finish the next one, and send it. Then finish the NEXT one, and send it too.

Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :

"If I read that right, then you always submit everything eventually. Is that the case?"

With only two submissions to my credit it's a little early to tell but that's certainly the idea. One or two WIPs might get merged into larger stories along the way, and there's one that was written to explore some certain techniques which will probably morph beyond recognition.

But yes, every story has the germ of an idea I'd like to communicate through publication and if I hold back until I'm really good, I'll be dead.

Cheers,
Pat

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I don't know if any of the editors of my early days are still around to remember my early submissions---certainly one SF magazine editor still is---but, I, too, would hate to be remembered for them. Actually, I'm glad of the rejections---up till the early nineties, my stuff was awful.

(Hmm...maybe I am remembered for them. Maybe that's why I haven't had any luck or sales with my good stuff...)