If so, whats the most helpful? English Degree? Writers workshops or creative writing courses?
I am actually of the opinion that such things arent likely to make much difference to most editors, and that certainly, the story is going to be the main thing. But I was interested in other opinions.
Also, magazine editors aside, how about agents, major publishers etc? What do they look for?
Pat
I wonder now...then, when I was younger and had the time to go and get one, I didn't think I needed one. English lit. and lang. were generally the most boring of the classes I took, and I wondered what I could get out of them...
He encouraged college classes to the novice for the mechanics. Workshops, writing groups, seminars and conventions for continued growth.
(My take on his message)
Art is not like other jobs. In music or sculpture or painting or writing the experience of earning a degree can help you produce better stuff, but in the end it is the stuff that is judged, not the degree.
If you want to be a doctor or an engineer then your degree will be judged before they give you a chance to produce any stuff.
I was going to be something in "math / science / engineering," but by the end of it I was (a) intimidated by having to go elsewhere for more education, and (b) pretty sick of school and school work.
And there was also (c) I wanted to see if I could make a living at writing. I think you can all guess how that came out...
'All the best writers and poets are shaped from the lives they live.'
I never went to Iowa or pursued any advanced degree after taking my bachelors.
All you need to know about the mechanics of writing should have been learned by your freshman year of High School (age 13-14). Getting advanced degrees will not NECESSARILY make you a better writer. Will it help? Without a doubt the pursuit of a higher level liberal arts degree such as English or Philosophy will expose you to ideas and works you might never experience. You will learn critical thinking skills when analysing the merits of the work studied. There's a reason most of my upper level philosophy courses were packed with computer science and mathematics students. You will learn different writing styles. You will develop your own writing style when are forced to express your opinions by employing the critical writing craft.
Do you need an advanced degree to be a better writer? Most certainly not. Will an advanced degree help you to become a better writer? I'd say that it certainly won't hurt.
My philosophy -- always pursue education based upon development and self-enlightenment in relation to life goals. Never pursue education for education's sake. Never pursue education for a title... NEVER PURSUE EDUCATION DUE TO MONETARY PURSUIT, many wealthy people don't hold degrees, and most don't have advanced degrees(they become wealthy through living, hmmm sounds familiar).
Good luck to you.
quote:
NEVER PURSUE EDUCATION DUE TO MONETARY PURSUIT
This is just bad advice. Each level of education raises average salary, and lowers average unemployment.
Writing fiction is so much more than the mechanics you learn in freshman year. Learning from professionals is not just learning different styles. It's learning how to craft words together, how to create and develop characters, how to be true to characters, how to evoke place, how to create suspense, how to manage plot, etc. There are different theories for all of these, of course, but these are things that are teachable. I believe there are parts of writing that aren't teachable, but those are the exceptions.
Since I joined this forum I've taken classes from two very talented professors. People on this forum have seen my work improve immensely in the past year and a half. I've published. I say writing is teachable, because I've been taught.
I read in one article about MFA's, that most people would say that you can't teach someone to play the piano as well Mozart. But it would be absurd to say that you can't teach the basics, and even the complexities, of playing the piano.
I plan to attend an MFA program (after I go on a 2 year mission trip for my church, so it's a ways off), and my advise is to research. The programs that say they allow a writer to develop independently sound useless. I'm interested in the programs that don't look down on popular literature, that teach writing, that will let me focus on novel writing, and that have faculty that I want to write like. My list so far is Virginia Commonwealth University, Florida International University, and Columbia Chicago, and...there's another I can't remember, wherever Mort Castle teaches. Of course, things like financial aid, and whether or not I get in, will influence where I go.
FYI - Mozart was taught to play piano by his father who was a concert pianist himself. Of course his genuis came from within.
Having a MFA isn't going to guarentee any success. A MFA in and of itself isn't going to make your novel necessarily any more profitable or acceptable than the next. None, zip, nada. No level of education can. Higher education isn't necessarily indicative of better pay, you even indicate this in your post (averages are stressed). "Necessary" v "sufficient" is the critical argument here.
If wealthy people are all educated, then it would be true that all educated people are wealthy. This factually and logically just isn't the case.
Your logic is faulty. I'm not claiming that wealth implies education (good God, look at Paris Hilton). But if it did, that would not imply that the reverse were true.
A silly example to prove my point:
fact:
Wood is flammable.
Conclusion (according to your logic):
Everything that is flammable is made of wood.
Please stop and realize that you are saying the same things, but in ways that are not being communicated effectively.
The meaning of the message is in what the hearer receives, not in what the speaker sends.
So let's leave it at that and not worry about trying to clarify, okay?
And it doesn't mean anything to whether or not you can write anything that somebody would want to read.
Writing abiity and education are two completely independent variables.
There's a lot of advice out there about how to write an effective query. What made sense to me was, for a short story, keep it very short. The editor should spend his time reading your story, not your cover letter. But for novels, the query letter is an art form all on its own.
Of course, I have yet to get an acceptance (and just started submitting over the last couple of months), so I could be way off. I just figure that it's got to be worth something!
Ben
Where are you going on your church mission? I did one of those too (Uruguay).
Ben
If you're trying to sell a non-fiction book, medical- or scientific field thriller, or something else based on "special" knowledge, then it definitely will help. If not, it's whether or not the agent/editor/publisher is hooked enough by the story to read it, and satisfied enough with the ending that truly matters.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 03, 2008).]
For the record, I already have an "education", from life and I'm not, truly, a big fan of organized schooling of any kind unless its necessary for what you want to do.
What I was asking is, as Mrs. Brown saw, basically just wether it looks extra good on a cover letter or not.
quote:
If you've got a good enough story
quote:
it's whether or not the agent/editor/publisher is hooked enough by the story to read it, and satisfied enough with the ending that truly matters
I mostly agree, except I think its a much simpler, more general matter of, quite frankly, whether the editor or agent likes/enjoys the whole story, or not, that makes the decision.