So word count has puzzled me. I have a completed manuscript at 240,000 words. I did some searching on the web and found that several authors - Tolkien, Robert Jordan, J.K. Rowling, etc. - have long books with big word counts. I've gone through several edits, and solicited feedback from some close friends/family. Everyone says that they want more story, and that it is a quick read. In fact, one of my non-related test readers was convinced that my book was shorter than each of the Twilight novels by Stephenie Meyer - until I sent her the actual word counts for each novel compared with mine. She was quite surprised. I thought that was encouraging.
If I throw out the number of 240,000, is that an instant rejection? I could cut it in two...but then I also read this post by Orson Scott Card:
The gist is that that word count isn't as important if the story is good, and that pacing, development, etc., all factor into making the novel readable and having a good word count. Although I'm thinking that this post was written 8 years ago. Rules have probably changed. Maybe?
But how do you convince an agent that a story is worth the word count in just a query...?
My books are a mythical sci-fi series that I've outlined for at least 3 books, with Book 1 manuscript completely written. The irony is that I had outlined what was going to be book 1, then as I got into it and let it evolve, I realized I needed to cut book 1 in two. So I have a detailed outline of book 2 done because it was going to be the second half of book 1.
But now book 1 is obviously too long. I could cut it in two; the problem is that I need to find a good place to do that. I just looked at my word counts at potential division points and the most logical point is probably a third of the way in, so I'd have to really beef up book 1 to be enough words now (probably target about 100K words, right? Or is that even too high?). There's definitely enough story, and it would enrich what would become book 2...boy, I'm going to need to think this through.
Anyway - any and all thoughts are appreciated. Thanks, Ben
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Dave Farland (bestselling fantasy author) says that he has been told to limit his stories--he likes to write doorstoppers, too--to 150,000 words. And he's a bestseller! Barnes and Noble has said they want smaller volumes, and they won't purchase thick books. Publishers sell their books to bookstores (B&N being one of the largest markets) so they have been making the authors trim the work. Robert McCammon, another bestseller, came back from about a decade's hiatus with Speaks the Nightbird--it was cut in half to part one and two, and released in consecutive months.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Even Tolkien had to publish his magnum opus in three books to begin with...
[edited to correct some italicism problems]
[This message has been edited by Robert Nowall (edited November 26, 2008).]
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
On her blog, Stephanie Meyer says the agent she solicited probably would not have asked for her manuscript except that the person who read her query letter didn't realize that 130,000 words = 500 pages.
Here's the thing. By all means, go for it. If you think your story can't be told any other way, or that the massive volume is the best way to do it, then take faith in that and send it off. It's all about odds. The odds of getting a ginormous volume, esp in this climate, is probably pretty slim. Doesn't mean you can't do it--you just might have to make up for agent's unwillingness to take on such a large project by being extra aggressive about marketing, or being extra persistent in querying.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I'm inclined to finish the damned thing first and worry about marketing it after it's finished---but that's the way my literary efforts are going these days. I'm aware of marketing concerns and restrictions but not concerned with them---however, many of you are likely are concerned, and should keep things in mind as you write.
Posted by Tiergan (Member # 7852) on :
Tolkein of course was from a different time, so i don't know how relevant the count. As IB said, Farland has been ask to limit his word count. And Rowlings, well while right now she could right at any size and sell, her first Harry Potter was far shorter than the later ones, My guess is by more than half.
250,000 words is a hard sell.
Posted by benmackay (Member # 8148) on :
I appreciate everyone's responses and guidelines. Definitely are helpful.
I have the first manuscript completely finished, and I'm thinking how to divide it. What are "acceptable" word counts for sci fi genre novels? I thought about just dividing in half, but is 120K still too much? There are a couple of natural divisions in the story, but I think I'll have to move things around to get acceptable sizes.
Ben
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
120k is good. They usually like between 80k and 120k for first time fantasy authors, and if you can divide the story and make two great volumes out of it, why wouldn't you? (It's two books instead of one.)
Posted by Tiergan (Member # 7852) on :
Everything I have read on the subject agrees with IB, 80,000-120,000 for first time author. Dividing it is a plus, not just the 2 books, but many agents/publishers want to see the entrie project 2,3 or more books of the series before commiting as it is the only true way to see if the author can tell an entire story from start to finish.
Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
As a beginning author, you will be incredibly fortunate if you can sell a 240,000-word work as a single novel. If that happens more than once or twice a year in genre, I'd be very surprised (I occasionally see massive new tomes in Waterstone's by "first-time" authors, according to the blurb, but it isn't common). As noted, even writers with good sales records have problems with that.
So it sounds to me like with a little adjustment, you have a trilogy on your hands. Depends on the plot structure, of course; a "good" trilogy should have internal closure while leaving the arching plot open, and it's really difficult to avoid "middle-book" syndrome ("the book in which nothing significant happens").
Posted by benmackay (Member # 8148) on :
All,
Thank you for your very insightful replies and insights. I was going to post some lines in the feedback section and solicit reviews, but I will first make some adjustments to break the book up. Hopefully I can get that done in a few weeks.
It's amazing; I never intended that the novel was going to be so long but as I wrote, and ideas flowed and characters evolved, and I revised, cut, added, cut some more, the story became much richer and much better than I had anticipated. (I hope ). I didn't pay much attention to word count (in my naivete) thinking that I was still OK. Now I have some more opportunity to make the stories better. And, ultimately, I'm going to end up with 4 books if not 5.
Thanks!! Ben
Posted by Swordsman (Member # 8197) on :
Here’s encouraging news, benmackay. First time writer Brent Weeks recently sold Orbit not only a series of three novels, but ALL of them 225K or longer. The three tomes appeared in October, November and December 2008.
Posted by benmackay (Member # 8148) on :
Wow - that is very encouraging! How did he get it sold? I stopped submitting queries the last 2-3 weeks in an effort to re-structure the story and then go through a re-submission process. I've gotten several agent rejections, and need to re-work my submission/query letters. Have learned a lot on this and other forums that I wish I'd known before submitting.
I probably need 3-4 weeks to finish my re-structuring to get the book divided into 3 books with the following lengths:
- Book 1: about 85,000 words - Book 2: about 95,000 words - Book 3: about 110,000 words
Seems that will be more palatable...but this Orbit news is great! Maybe I'll re-submit to some agents as is, but I think I've got some good improvement in the new plan. Although it would be great just to be able to submit what I've got. Anyway - thanks for the post!
