Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Possessive S

This is topic Possessive S in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

I know (at least I'm pretty sure) for a plural noun ending in "s" you express a possession like so.

My friends' friends were fatter than the sun.

But what if it's a person's name.

Is it "Niles' coffee" ? Or is it "Niles's coffee" ?

Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :

Niles' coffee.

Posted by Kaz (Member # 7968) on :

That's the way I was taught.

Though Elements of Style claims it should be Niles's.

Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :

It should be the Jones's house.

Apostrophes are used to show the omission of letters. In middle(?) English plurals were formed by adding es to a name. Today the apostophe stands for the missing e.

You can certainly find back up for either form on the net. It seems to be a matter of taste. The fashion swings back and forth.

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

But what do publishers and agents prefer?

Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :

Chicago recommendations on possessive apostrophes runs four pages with a couple dozen rules and exceptions.

Generally, how a possessive term is spoken is a guiding principle. Number in some cases has no bearing.

Marquis', singular (unpronounced S in the uninflected form); marquises', plural.
People's, uncounted plural.
Children's, uncounted plural, (childrens'es!? an inflected dialect form. Yeah, I've seen it in a transcript of spoken word).
Susan St. James', apostrophe appended to a singular name, James.
The James's, a plural possessive for Mr. and Mrs. James and, if any, their kin. However, optionally, with context definitively indicating plural possessive, The James' car broke down.
James' books, but optionally, James's collection, for number agreement
Grand Prix' cars, but razzmatazz's glitter.
A church's minister, churches' congregations.

But in titles or other situations where there's clearly no possessive context;

Publishers Weekly
The Smiths Tavern

Signmakers once upon a time routinely omitted apostrophes according to their styles. Probably as much a consequence of a pleasing appearance and economy of effort as anything. How does an inanimate object possess itself? is the debate on whether to include an apostrophe in a business' name, for example. Merriam Webster followed suit in early dictionaries' style recommendations. That style recommendation has largely gone by the wayside, though, of late.

In formal writing, whether to add a possessive S to a singular or plural word is not a clear-cut prescriptive absolute.

[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited July 29, 2009).]

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

What if there are two nileses, both of whom are having coffee? is it then niles's coffee? Or is that when it would be Niles'?

Just to throw a wrench in the works.

I think you need cases to cover:
- plural or collective word that ends in s, possessive
- single name that ends in s, possessive (Niles)
- plural name (two Niles'), possessive

In addition to the ones we already know of:
- single word that does not end in s, posessive (That's the cat's.)
- single name that does not end in s, possessive (George's cat has a hat.)