Is it ok to start chapter two with a dream? It would be the first chapter in a character's (that has not yet been seen) POV. In my world, the gods communicate via dreams. I am not happy with where I started chapter two in my first draft and am considering rewriting with it starting with her dream. I am not sure this is the right starting point, but I don't want to write it and see if the cliche thing is going to be an issue that ruins it anyway.
Also for the first 13, is walking off a battlefield to discover father's death a cliche for a starting point? I have reasons for setting it then and it feels like the starting point to me, but if it is cliched, I will keep thinking about it.
[This message has been edited by sholar (edited December 15, 2009).]
Posted by Merlion-Emrys (Member # 7912) on :
I'd worry less about it being cliche or not and more about whether or not it works for your story.
I don't think the same issues apply to the begining of the second chapter of a novel than to the first 13 lines of a short story anyway.
Posted by Wolfe_boy (Member # 5456) on :
Yeah, I think Merlion's right. You've already got reader buy-in if they've reached chapter 2. They also probably know the character who is having the dream, or perhaps even the characters or background that inhabit the dream.
The problem with the whole starting with a dream sequence is, well, one, it's done quite often, and two, it asks us to have an emotional connection to the person having the dream, and it's not usually a connection that the author has earned at that point in time.
Chapter 2, though? Sure, give 'er.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Dream sequences are not as much of a problem if the reader knows that's what they are.
Posted by Merlion-Emrys (Member # 7912) on :
quote:Yeah, I think Merlion's right.
~dies~
Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
I'm not sure I'd actually have a dream sequence as the introductory scene for a character, though. If the dreams are to be meaningful to the reader, then they need to have some kind of grounding. Dream sequences are so often used as auctorial "cheats" - a writer can get away with anything they need to in a dream, can dispose of logic, of normal characterisation, can use any foreshadowing, symbolism, or anything else they want. I as a reader tend to distrust dreams - seeing them in general as a writer trying to get information or plot movment across that they can't think of a "better" way of doing.
This is not to say that dreams cannot and should not be used. Just that you should think carefully about why you are using a dream. You have a rationale here - it's how Gods communicate - which is good, but then you have to make sure that it doesn't become a plot convenience (i.e. dreams only show up as and when they move the plot along in the way the writer wants, with no apparent consistency).
Posted by Wolfe_boy (Member # 5456) on :
quote:~dies~
Disagreeing is only fun if we can agree from time to time. Pure 100% disagreement just breeds resentment & bitterness. Occasional disagreements generate good-natured debate.
Well, hopefully.
[This message has been edited by Wolfe_boy (edited December 15, 2009).]
Posted by sholar (Member # 3280) on :
Thanks- those are good points. I need to think about what tchernabyelo said a bit more. I want the gods to be manipulating things, but that there powers are fairly limited- like they never identify themselves in the dreams, but people note nightmares or good dreams or other dream details as being part of why they are stuck in this horrible situation. Once the gods have what they want (by chapter two) they don't come up anymore (other then the main character mentioning how much he hates them). And this made me realize that I do describe a later dream that is not from the gods, but I doubt readers will figure that out. Thanks for advice!
Posted by babooher (Member # 8617) on :
If Shakespeare can use Caesar's ghost, why can't you use a dream?
Posted by MAP (Member # 8631) on :
I think the problem with begining a story with a dream is the false start. When starting a story, the reader is disoriented and once he gets his bearings if he finds out the segment is a dream, then he has to start all over again. I think once the reader is oriented dreams are no longer a problem.
I do think it is a good idea to think carefully about what your characters dream about. What someone dreams is as connected to who they are as what they say and do.
Posted by jayazman (Member # 2818) on :
Brandon Sanderson used a dream sequence to open a chapter, but there are two things he did: 1) we already knew the character having the the dream, 2) the fact that it was a dream was stated in the first few lines.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Seems such a cliche...and, besides, leads to the next scene where the dreamer wakes up in bed (or wherever) and starts the new day. I felt compelled to give that up when I realized I'd started three successive stories exactly that way.
Posted by Kitti (Member # 7277) on :
I agree with tchernabyelo - the problem for me with your proposed placement of the dream is that, by introducing a new POV character via a dream, you are essentially starting a new "story" within your novel by a dream. That might or might not work, depending on how much the first chapter grounds the reader in your world.
Might I suggest getting readers who are unfamiliar with the story to read the first two chapters and tell you if they're disorientated by the dream sequence or not?