I mostly use myself as a judge...whether or not I'm happy with what I've written.
What are you trying to accomplish, specifically?
It is true though that in the end practice is basically the only way (that and critting and being critted, which is just part of the practice essentially.)
Have you posted a 1st 13 yet? Maybe you should do that and mention in the post exactly what you don't like.
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited August 16, 2010).]
Or could you tell the story into an audio recorder of some kind and then transcribe it? Hearing it first may help you to get it to sound better to you.
I learned a lot by reading through the first thirteens here and thinking about what worked for me and what didn't and why.
Here's an introduction to a scene:
The smell of smoke and steel filled the air as Kode Nichols stepped out into the busy streets of Lumina. The forges where no doubt already stoked. Ready to heat the various metals and ores needed to produce the fine weapons and armour that Lumina was famous for. It was a long walk from Kode's home to the guild house.
Even though the streets where narrow and the buildings crammed together, the pockets of buildings where far apart. It took a considerable amount of time to get most anywhere, but that was a sacrifice one had to make to reap the benefits of living in the mountains. Level ground was rare and far between so it was used to its fullest potential. Buildings towered overhead and seemed to bulge up into the sky to accommodate the growth of the prosperous city.
I'm fairly satisfied with this piece of writing, it could probably use work, but at this point of the writing it does an adequate job of setting the scene.
Here is a section of dialogue...
"Buck up yer step Nelson! We've got to get this done, you know what the deadline is!"
"Sod off Althus, we'll get the job done." snapped Nelson." And besides, what kind of hogwash is it that we have to be done before midnight anyway? I can understand that they want it done quickly, but to do a break-in so early in the night is just stupid. I mean, the guards haven't even had a chance to get drunk yet, and we're supposed to pull a heist? Its ludicrous!"
"Hey, I've got no clue why they want it done at this hour either," growled Althus, "And I don't like it either. But if it isn't done on time, we don't get paid, and I'm not about to argue with a pouch of gold marks!"
Nelson spit vehemently and kicked at the dirt, muttering curses that would make a rock flinch.
"I still don't like it," Neslon said grumbling, as the trio slipped into a side alley. "And the worse part is, we got to take this stupid kid along, he's still wet behind the ears for crying out loud. Mark my words, he's gonna get us all killed."
I find it to be clumbsy and awkward.
[This message has been edited by KoDe Nichols (edited August 16, 2010).]
Perhaps you just need a little more distance? Did you write it recently?
You need to slow down. Think about how these two guys would interact with each other, what they would say not what the reader needs to know. Don't worry about getting in all of the details about the heist, that will come in time.
I hope this helps.
I think MAP's comment about slowing down is a good one. There is a lot of patience in writing. But yeah, your dialog needs more stuff around it; movement, gestures, expressions etc. Your prose is pretty good.
I say just keep writing - it will come.
Aside from that, the dialog is awkward, as has already been pointed out, because the characters are telling each other things they already know. Real people don't do that when they're talking to each other, so the conversation isn't real.
So I think there is a bit of an line between dialogue info dump (which is I think the real issue behind "as you know, Bob") and realistic redundancy.
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited August 16, 2010).]
Thanks
Secondly, some of the information is essentially about plot rather than the character's worries. Ask yourself what really motivates the speaker to talk. If it is more than one thing, what is the relationship between the data and what is the order of importance? The most important should come first or last for greatest impact into the memory of the reader. In this case, Nelson has three issues that he is worried about, midnight is an unrealistic timeline, the potential of facing non-drunk guards and the fact that a newbie is coming with them. These are presented as equal but unrelated points in the dialog (although the second may be less important than the other two, given the ordering). These are related, each is a risk to the job and to their lives. So you could bring them up as part of that particular motivation to speak, but to do so, make this motive clearer at the start of the dialog.
Further, don't resolve the risk-reward statements until after the last risk has been aired. Currently, Althus resolves it (by reminding Nelson about the conditions on the reward) and then Nelson (Neslon?) brings up another risk that is left hanging. This may say something about Nelson's character (i.e. that he is a complainer), but it also makes the character seem unresolved about moving ahead and so, if he does, he has become a bit more unknown, rather than better known, to the reader.
Edited to add - any "don't" or rule that I or anyone else says should be taken is part of the writers risk awareness, rather than a law the must be followed. So if I came across as a bit rigorous above, my apologies.
[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited August 16, 2010).]
I know you said you didn't want to hear it, but the answer is . . . . practice. This I've learned from experience. Some people might be born with the storytelling "flow" gene. The rest of us have to pick it up by lots and lots of trial and error. Good luck and keep plugging.
I characterize it the way I do because story has always been easy for me and flow hard, and hard part HAS to be the artistry, right . . . . .?
[This message has been edited by J (edited August 16, 2010).]
"What's that smell?" Abel asked, pinching nose.
"The smell of genius," Baker said. "And garlic. But mostly genius."
For example,
"Sod off Althus, we'll get the job done." snapped Nelson." And besides, what kind..." could become...
"Sod off Althus, we'll get the job done." Nelson rolled his eyes." And besides, what kind...
That means using description of a character to prove who said what, instead of snapped Nelson, or Nelson said, or Nelson grumbled. I think that might help add the description in the middle of the dialog so it doesn't feel like the dialog is just floating out there. And it could be anything, you could name an action, like
"Sod off Althus, we'll get the job done." Nelson picked his nose. (or ran his thumb over the blade of his knife, or eyes a good looking housewife, or gazed at the towering buildings, or searched though the crowds of brightly dressed marks for someone, or whatever you want)" And besides, what kind...
But good luck with it.
And I think the answer always is just practice. You'll figure it out.
~Sheena
"Ew. Disgusting." Nelson looked at Sheena and continued picking his nose. "Next you'll probably wipe it on your shirt. Or worse, eat it."
--------------------------
"I've got to get it." Nelson looked at Sheena and continued picking his nose. "It's been annoying me for ages."
Same action, but context makes it very different as to who is speaking. So be very careful about context, so that it is clear. Said at least makes it clear who is talking.
I have had some critiquers that find non-talk actions in the middle of conversation to be quite off-putting. I saw what they mean, it can jump people out of reading and lead to confusion. But I have seen the approach that Sheena has suggested work quite well at times.
Examples of "dangling particple":
"Being so awkward in sentences, I never use dangling participles."
"Running through the forest as fast as he could go, the roots of the trees kept tripping him."
So, don't use dangling action tags either.
Again I agree with Katherine.
Reading the story aloud, listening to the rhythm and flow of the sentences and the word choices I am finding very helpful, and I recommend this to you,
quote:
The smell of smoke and steel filled the air as Kode Nichols stepped out into the busy streets of Lumina. The forges where no doubt already stoked. Ready to heat the various metals and ores needed to produce the fine weapons and armour that Lumina was famous for. It was a long walk from Kode's home to the guild house.
quote:
Even though the streets where narrow and the buildings crammed together, the pockets of buildings where far apart. It took a considerable amount of time to get most anywhere, but that was a sacrifice one had to make to reap the benefits of living in the mountains. Level ground was rare and far between so it was used to its fullest potential. Buildings towered overhead and seemed to bulge up into the sky to accommodate the growth of the prosperous city.
The streets were narrow, crammed between the towers of the city. The city clung to the mountainside, its buildings clustered where level ledges permitted, their spires lancing the sky. Where they could not build outward, they built upward.
Oh. Got carried away there (sorry). Too poetical, ... but I wished to see and experience your city.
Regarding the dialogue, I concur I find (for me) it is better to use "said" mostly and, often in quick back-and-forth conversation, nothing at all. You seem to be able to convey the characters' tones by the choice and pace of the spoken words, thus adding "snapped" or "grumbling" seems redundent. Well done.
Respectfully,
History
[This message has been edited by History (edited August 19, 2010).]
Your character may be sensitive enough to smell steel, and it may not have any particular descriptive--it may just smell like steel. You decide whether it's important enough to go into more detail.