Hatrack River Writers Workshop: A small rant about copyright. and historical myth.

This is topic A small rant about copyright. and historical myth. in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by walexander (Member # 9151) on :

This small rant came about from me always hearing about two different things. One after reading LD's post and others posts like it saying editors don't want vampire stories, or lord of the rings, or wizard on brooms type stories. The other was reading comments by authors about infringing on there copyrights.

I can understand specifics - like no kids on brooms playing a game called quiditch - but kids flying around on brooms should not be considered copyrighted by Rowling just because her books are popular. witches riding brooms are part of historical myth, the same as wizards, dragons, vampires and werewolves. It seems unfair because someones had success to punish the rest of the writing comunity. How can an agent or editor know that someone won't write an even better book than twilight, or harry potter, or lord of the rings?

If writers with popular books are aloud to corner markets then in the future will end up with everything copyrighted.

long before I knew of harry potter I remember watching Hayao Miyazaki's - kiki's delivery service - which is a great kids story about a young girl who flies around on her broom. I would hate to think that a story like that might wouldn't have been made in a time of post harry potter because of comparisons. That wouldn't happen for someone like Hayao Miyazaki because he's already world famous, but for new writer's I could see it happen. As even Rowling understands, people trying to make comparisons of their books to earlier works of hers, which is ridiculous to.

I guess my worry is - harry potter in one form or another along with twilight and others are not going away anytime soon because their authors will still be putting out books for years to come. I don't see the market getting unflooded anytime soon, so what will be the point of telling everyone to wait. We could all be dead long before their popularity cools off.

And yes, I'm a big believer in a unique concept, but it would be sad if something great gets thrown aside because it has the word, vampire, werewolf, wizard, elf, and now becoming popular zombie, in it.

I guess it just irked me that - should I come up with some great vampire story - that I might think to myself - oh can't write that because twilight and true blood are still popular and no editors will want it. Not perhaps because the story wasn't great but because it got dumped - why? -it had the word 'vampire' in it.

Sorry sometimes the system seems a little screwy to me.

Rant over,

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I've come to the conclusion that I don't particularly want to write contemporary vampire / werewolf / mermaid / zombie / whatever romance stories---they just don't appeal to me as a reader, much less that the handling of what little I've read (or read about) seems horribly wrong, botched, even.

Probably I'd throw it aside myself if the idea for one came to me.

*****

On the other hand, I do read a good number of internet comics that involve nearly all these themes---somehow I get drawn into the world of the characters easier when I see them as characters, not as reading something by somebody manipulating a theme for the sake of "making a quick sale."

Even then I'm most drawn to original-seeming stuff. I like this one comic strip, called "Selkie," about, well, the adoption of an orphen girl named Selkie, who appears to be, well, a selkie, a fish-person. It's different enough, and the adoption angle isn't one likely to wind up playing a major role in a best-selling novel...

There's nothing new under the sun, as is said, so vampires and such will come, and probably go, and then come back...

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Write what you wish, what you are inspired to write, and what you enjoy.
What else is there to write?

There is a plethora of vampire, zombie, epic fantasy tales that are being published because people are reading them and buying them. The same is true for private eye and spy stories. And there have been charcters riding brooms or magic carpets or descending to the underworld for, well, almost as long as there have been stories.

What is needed is some new take on these common elements and genres along with good writing that makes your story stand out from among the others and permits the publisher to sell the book.

No need to rant.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

[This message has been edited by History (edited November 09, 2010).]

Posted by philocinemas (Member # 8108) on :

Vampire and young witch stories are not going to be copyrighted. And even stories remotely similar to those you've cited are not going to be regulated in the way you fear. However, interest is the parent of inspiration, and fortunately or unfortunately, vampires and young witches are on people's brains right now. Editors don't dislike these stories because they're too similar to popular stories. They dislike them because they are having to look at manuscripts all the time that are about vampires or young witches. I like pizza, but ever since I entered adulthood, my toleration for daily pizza has increasingly wavered. If I had to eat it every day, I would also ask for something different.

Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :

I've been having similar worries. That's why I went to great lengths to tweak my worlds. Elves and dwarves in my fantasy setting are significantly altered to what one expects, as is my take on vampires and werewolves. Still, an editor with no insight might consider it cliche and reject it.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Just remember that Charlaine Harris (author of the books TRUE BLOOD is based on) and Stephenie Meyer were not constrained from writing vampire stories by Anne Rice's Lestat series.

As philocinemas has pointed out, ideas can not be copyrighted. Only a writer's writing (which includes characters) can be copyrighted.

The Children of the Red King series, by Jenny Nimmo, about a boy (Charlie Bone) attending a school of magic, was published starting around 2002 (five years after the first Harry Potter book came out). It isn't as popular as Harry Potter, or as well known, but the eighth book in the series came out this past May.

Tropes (dragons, wizards, magic schools, witches on brooms, etc) can't be copyrighted either.

Posted by Crystal Stevens (Member # 8006) on :

And also like Philo said; I would think editors would get tired if almost every story they looked at was trying to ride on the successes of Meyers, Rawling, etc. I can just hear their groans when they say, "Not another vampire story."

It's also been said it's perfectly fine to write on popular topics these days. BUT it better be one fantastic book about vampires, a magic school, dragons, etc. or an editor won't even give it a second glance.

I remember when Star Wars first came out when you rarely saw any science fiction on the big screen. Suddenly everyone was doing it. Science Fiction adventure movies came out all over the place, and even though it was TV instead of the movies, that was when Battlestar Galactica went through a lawsuit with Lucas because of how closely it was thought to mimic Star Wars. Lucas lost, and Galactica lives on.

So write that story trying to escape onto the page and send it in. If it's a fresh idea with a new slant on a popular type of story, it just might fly. You never know.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

Lucas loaned Battlestar Galactica the use of Industrial Light & Magic for the special effects (Laser blasts and such) and they used the same sound effects, which he took offense to.

Posted by redux (Member # 9277) on :

Speaking of copyright, and Lucas, I find it interesting that he holds the trademark for the word droid.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I can't recall hearing "droid" before Star Wars..."android" referred to human-outward-form robots, and mechanical contraptions like C3PO and R2D2 were just "robots."

Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :

Yeah, if you look closely at the Droid phone commercials it has a "Droid is a trademark of Lucasfilm" kind of thing.

Android can also refer to a robot with human-like personality. Which is why R2-D2 qualifies as one. (I've got a whole rant about the differences between Android, Robot, and Cyborg that I've been meaning to post on my blog.)

Anyways, about the real conversation: I feel your pain, I've got my own "boy wizard" story that I just can't sell right now because of Harry Potter, perhaps after all the films are done there will be more of a market. But yeah, the editors don't want vampires and boy wizards because they get a lot of those and they are sick of them, not because of any copyright issue. (If it were the case Rowling would have been in serious trouble because so many have gone where she went with HP.)

The thing that bothers me is the like-LOTR things, because you go to the fantasy section in a bookstore and 90% of it could be considered Tolkeinesque, that's what is selling and it has been around long enough to no longer be considered a fad. (Like the Vampire/Romance sections in some stores I've seen.) People really connect with the Norse/Celtic/Druidic/other European mythologies, especially among those descended from the people who actually lived that life. Tolkein's technique (which he didn't invent) of mixing mythologies works great.