I think I see Dan and Thomas on the list. Congrats! Anyone else?
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Is that Nancy Greene our kings_falcon?
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
It is. Congrats, partner!
Posted by EP Kaplan (Member # 5688) on :
Congrats to our HM qualifiers. I didn't make the list (Good? Bad? Time will tell!), but I see a fellow New Jerseyan, M.T. Banker, did.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
It is only the [i[first[/i] list of Hm's, EP. More are sure to come.
WD is getting to be a regular for the list. Congrats to you.
I wonder who else we're going to see on it.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
Congrats all! And some biting of nails and pacing back and forth for those not yet on the list, I'm guessing.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
EP, I'm a son of New Jersey...originally.
Posted by philocinemas (Member # 8108) on :
Congrats, everyone!
I suddenly feel like a complete idiot (please, no comments about my choice of adverbs) - my entry was sent on Aug 13th - That is fourth quarter isn't it.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Congrats to the HMers
On the topic of New Jersey, I'm a Rutgers alumn.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Yeah, congrats to you all, if I got the count right that's four so far. That's Niice.
Nice to see someone from here moving closer, but that doesn't seem at all unusual around here.
And it would be interesting to know how many from here entered Q3.
I'm not there. That means either straight rejection or semi-finalist.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
More good news: Tom and Crystal are on the list. Congrats!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
So how many does that make from here?
Five at least from mine double quick count.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Psst. Got my semi-finalist crit in the mail. Yeah!
I live in LA so I might be one of the first, if not the first to receive it, just by postal speed.
Good luck to everyone who's still waiting.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Whoo! Big congrats Genevive!
Posted by philocinemas (Member # 8108) on :
Congratulations to all you second rounders, and BIG congrats to genevive!
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Nice work Genevive. Any chance you'll share what She Who Must Be Impressed said?
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
I second that. I'd love to hear any of KDW's comments that the rest of us might use to know what she's looking for (or what she doesn't like).
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Thanks all. I am very excited.
I don't mind sharing the comments.
She started with some nice stuff at the beginning and some quibbles at the end. I will leave both of those off and share what she says kept the story from being a Finalist.
The main reason this piece did not advance to Finalist, though, was that you split the plot between two viewpoint characters, Sessia amd Erelone, neither of whom are very active in determining what happens plot-wise.
When you select a main character, it's traditional to ask yourself who wants something and why can't he/she have it? Who has the power to act in this situation? Who has the capacity to grow and change? Both of these female characters are fairly passive. Their needs and desires do not drive the plot. Instead their mates, Tam and Rakeyon, make all the decisions.
You have created a rich backstory here. You just need to restructure the plot so that the viewpoint characters are not so passive. It would probably be easiest to switch the viewpoint to Tam and Rakeyon, but you could also keep the viewpoint characters you already have and work to make the females more active.
I will also tell you that I don't agree with these comments. I've looked at it from many angles and I don't believe her suggestions would improve this story. In fact, I think they would hurt it. The story might adhere to the 'rules' better, but that's not always the best way to do things. (I know, blasphemy.)
Of all the people who critiqued this story, I think she is the only one who said these things. I look at her critique as one of many. The majority liked the story structured the way it is.
So I hope this gives some insight and helps to figure out that conundrum that is WotF.
Hopefully I will get this story into a pro pub.
Posted by izanobu (Member # 9314) on :
genevive, my story that took semi last quarter missed finalist by a hair as well. And, like you, I didn't agree with her assessment. I looked at the thing she pointed out (that a character hesitates and decides to talk to his former captain before trying to kill her) and didn't really think that was a "Too stupid to live" action. So I didn't change anything :P My HM for Q3 came back with a comment on the first page saying she felt the story was really good but the beginning was too slow and I should cut it. Again, I looked at the story and decided not to. I'd just have to rewrite the middle to seed in the information from the beginning anyway, so it would be moving words around. None of my first readers thought the beginning was slow.
I think that the line between semi and finalist is so thin that KD has to split hairs like this. If her advice doesn't resonate, there's no reason to take it. After all, the contest has already told you no at this point. I figure that I'll take the advice and look critically at my next entries and see if I can try to anticipate which hairs she'll be splitting for those so I can choose the story that seems less likely to have those kinds of minor issues.
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
@genevive--thanks for sharing!!
Do you mind if I copy her comment into the KDW WOTF advice post? I can make it generic with the names and stuff if you want.
DD
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Thanks for sharing. KDW's opinion is indeed one among many, but to win WotF, her opinion is the primary one that matters. I find it interesting that she is parroting what many agents hammer home on their blogs on what to put in a query: Who is the main character, what does he/she want and what's keeping him/her from getting it? However, I don't agree that the POV character always must be the protagonist - the decision-maker. We had a thread here not too long ago of excellent stories in which the POV character was an observer (for instance, Dr. Watson).
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
quote:Who is the main character, what does he/she want and what's keeping him/her from getting it?
I wonder if KDW takes the position she does because WoTF is looking for people to have a strong grasp of the basics of fiction. While the things quoted above are certainly not the only questions that matter, perhaps the idea is KDW wants to see new writers who have a strong grasp of those 3 things: Character, Motivation, Obstacle.
I of course have only made my first WoTF submission in the Q4 2010 period, so what do I know.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
Sure DW, go ahead. I'll just ask that you change the character names.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Viewed through the lens of the information Genevive had provided, I can understand why my Q3 story was rejected. My viewpoint character does not start moving the action forward himself until five or six pages in, and KDW might not have gotten that far. Come to think of it, that's the case in my two other rejections, too. We might be onto something here.
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
That's some good feedback, guys. I'd like to throw another couple of copper into the ring.
At one point while preparing my submission I came to an interesting realisation: Maybe my story, no matter how good I get it, can't win. The reason was that I'd had some consistently negative feedback from some readers which I really couldn't address directly without completely breaking the story. All the same, I did my damnedest to make the story the best I could, but after submitting it I then adopted a very fatalistic point of view about how the story would do.
With that in mind, my point is how a story does in the competition isn't completely up to the author. Instead, we're competing with (anecdotally) thousands of other hopefuls. If only eighteen entries can reach the semis and above, then perhaps the way to read KDW's feedback isn't:
"This is what you should do to this story"
but is rather only
"This is what the winners did which made their stories more compelling overall"
because as much as KDW may have been wowed by your story (and I submit that she must have been wowed to have semi'd it), she has clearly been more taken by other stories in the shortlist.
I also think this comes back to a common piece of advice with respect to any critique: A critiquer's suggestion to change your story isn't as important as understanding why they're making the suggestion. In this case it's fairly clear where KDW is coming from.
And how does that come back to my opening point? Only perhaps to say that when we submitting to WotF (or anywhere), let's remember both who we're up against and that we cede all control over our story's destiny once it hits the postal system. I've no doubt there are some beautiful stories submitted to WotF that get rejected outright for one thing or another, so all we can do is try and write the stand-out piece and then take our chances.
So congratulations again for getting into that late stage in the competition.
[This message has been edited by BenM (edited December 06, 2010).]
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Both females were in a male dominated society. One primitive, one advanced. It was their story to tell and ours to observe. You can't change the truth of your story.
I agree with what Ben says. Stories overall to win need x. KDW echoes this sentiment. But this story could only be told this way. I look forward to reading it in whatever pub it eventually finds.
Axe
Posted by TamesonYip (Member # 9072) on :
I think I was one of the crits that said I liked the structure of your story. I think the characters did make choices, but those choices were more domestic in nature. Sorry if I led you wrong, but I think your story would cease to be the same story it is told from the male viewpoints. It would resonate differently. The males story could still be interesting, but I like hearing a woman's voice in a male dominated society. There is a uniqueness and realism to that.
I seem to recall something about WOTF being partially marketed to teens. I liked genevive's story, but I can see a potential market issue there. I would imagine that it wouldn't be hard to get this story pro-published elsewhere.
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
No one led me wrong. That's my point. The story is what it should be. Changing it as suggested would not be true to its intent. I am okay with that. And if that is what kept it from becoming a finalist, I'm okay with that too. It's a stylistic choice and that's where the subjectivity of editors comes into play. And that is something you never escape.
I appreciate KDW taking the time to critique it for me. Her comments will give me something to consider next time.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
I hope our host doesn't mind if I put in a shout for the Writers of the Future web forum?
I've been putting up some good content down in the Information Alley.
If you don't have account yet, please come sign up?
If you do have an account but have had trouble with it, please let me know?
If you already have an account but have not used it in awhile, swing on over and take a look.
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Brad, I long ago tried to make an account there with no luck. I emailed the moderator (you? not sure if you were the moderator at the time) that I never got an email authorizing my membership, to no avail. So I gave up trying. I've seen others here report similar problems.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Osiris, I'll put up a "trouble" thread here, to try and identify issues and help Hatrackers.
