My question is, would they even understand each other? Or would they have to fall back on a lingua franca such as Latin or French?

I don't know if I am over-complicating things and should make my character from the 16th century instead post Shakespeare

I would like opinions. Right now I am thinking it might be too far fetched to have my "modern American" character speak to the "medieval Briton" in French or Latin - at least somehow make it clear in the prose that when those two talk it's in a lingua franca even though the prose will be written in English.

I really don't know how to handle this, and what the best approach would be, so suggestions are more than welcome.

Thank you kindly in advance!

Redux
 

I think you can make the archaic speech work for you in more way than one... But... That would require massive amounts of research.

Also you definitely must be sure of the word's etymology. You don't want to use a word that is too modern for the characters background.

When I was reading people like Chaucer I often had a general idea about what he was writing but I had to look up the allusions and some more specific words.

I have some papers on the subject of medieval English language (hand outs, guides and such). I could scan or retype them if that means anything to you.

[This message has been edited by Foste (edited March 01, 2011).]
 

I was thinking I should maybe contribute a sketch of a scene in order to illustrate my dilemma.

#1
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"What's your favorite color?" Cassie asked William.

He stared at her then muttered some words, mostly incomprehensible, others familiar. Cassie sighed and wished she had paid more attention during English class when they covered Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

Cassie looked to Sarah for help.

Sarah shrugged. "It's all Greek to me."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

OR

#2
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"What's your favorite color?" Cassie asked William in Latin.

"Blue," William replied in the lingua franca.

Sarah watched the exchange wishing she had picked Latin as her college language requirement instead of Greek.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

OR

Is this one of those times when the writer falls back on willing suspension of disbelief from readers of fantasy? And the exchange should go something like this:

#3
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"What's your favorite color?" Cassie asked William.

"Blue, milady," William replied.

Sarah sighed. She was a sucker for English accents, not to mention men dressed in Medieval tunics.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

So, which of the 3 would work better?
 

Hmmm, I have read books that have done each of the three examples. With the first one you would have to them learn enough of the other's form of English so they would be able to eventually communicate. That could make some interesting scenes...I don't mean humorous even there could be some of that too.

I was originally going to say number three would be better because it gets the information across easier...you could always use magic to help with the communication. Some people may think that is cheating but you have already introduced magic and it would seem that unless this resurrection was done in a hurry, there would have been some thought given to being to understand each other. Of course it could be that she just didn't think it would be that hard.

Anyway, as I was saying I originally thought of number three but as I wrote my first paragraph, back up there, I thought the idea of them learning the other person's English would be better. Don't take too long to get the basics out of the way but the lessons could go on throughout the book.

It all depends if they are on schedule and how fast the deadline is approaching:if they got only days to get their act together or if they have months. I am assuming that there was a need that she resurrected the guy to meet but if it was by accident or for fun or she liked the way the guy looked in a tunic, that could change the way you do things and how long they have to learn to communicate. If there is a romance than working with each other can facilitate the romance.

Then again all that could change the story too much and you may want number three after all. And also I think it depends on the audience...it sounds like a YA novel but I could be wrong. But a well explained "magic" answer to the problem could work, for it has worked in other novels.
 

As for French, I think your modern American is more likely to be able to understand Middle English than medieval French, and again, not just any medeival Britton would be able to speak French.

A realistic language barrier would be a challenge to write around, but I think it could be worth it.

Also, is there any possibilty of having a translator? A translator could be technological or human (like a the doctoral candidate down the hall who's doing his or her dissertation on Chaucer, or maybe even the MC's old professor). Anyway, lots of possibilities.
 

A whole book like #1 would be unnecessarily slow -- unless the first part of the book centers around Cassie mastering Middle English. You could do that, too (but I wouldn't belabor the process), which would allow for some "secret code" communication between them, some #2-type reactions from others now and then.
 

The language of the King James Bible helped contribute to a major change in English that was also contributed to by the availability of written English. Once people started writing English down for huge numbers of readers (relatively), the language more or less stablized and language evolution slowed down considerably.
 

Not one of his best works story-wise, but still an interesting read.
 

quote:

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Casca is telling Cassius that Cicero spoke at a recent festival when Caesar

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That crazy Shakespeare. Doesn't he know he's not supposed to have four characters whose names begin with the same letter? Clearly he hasn't read all the books on writing I have or he'd know better.

In regard to the language issue, you have even more matters of communication to deal with. There are gaps in the common-ground languages you've proposed for concepts that were non-existent in an earlier time, as well as possible confusion regarding seemingly common words with meanings that have changed over time.

As a reader I'd prefer an approach that addresses the "oh yeah?" question and then gets out of the way so that I can enjoy the story you want to tell.

Any one of the approaches you've outlined seem like they could do that. A scene noting the problem and a sentence describing your solution (consistent with the rules of the story's world) would convince me you know what you're doing and I don't have to keep wondering about how they're able to communicate.

[This message has been edited by posulliv (edited March 03, 2011).]
 

Right now I am thinking I might do the language-barrier as a continuum - start off with a bit of difficulty with communication, then slowly wave the magic wand and have my resurrected guy eventually understand modern English while still having him speak in an archaic fashion in order to distinguish his speech from modern day speakers. That way he will be established as an as out-of-time and out-of-place type character.

My goal is some historical accuracy within reason since I am no linguist, no English Lit grad, and certainly no Tolkien in order to tackle the nuances of the development of the English language. Besides, I doubt the average reader picking up a fantasy book would care to read full tracts of dialogue rambling in Old/Middle English.

quote:

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That crazy Shakespeare. Doesn't he know he's not supposed to have four characters whose names begin with the same letter?

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Actually, two of the characters' names start with the K sound (Casca and Cassius), and the other two start with the S sound, so it isn't quite that bad (since Shakespeare wrote to be listened to, not read). And Cicero isn't really a character in that he is talked about and is off stage, and Caesar gets killed fairly early. Cassius is a major character, and Casca is only supporting.

Whatever.
 

Whoever gets the reference gets a free high 5.
 

And personally, I think the notion that readers are so dumb they can't tell Rick from Rob or even from Rich is overrated. If they can't, maybe the author hasn't defined the characters well enough, or has let them meld into an amorphous mass.

quote:

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...they can't tell Rick from Rob or even from Rich is overrated...

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Try having them get mail addressed to "R" whoever and see if they can be told apart...

*****

I got tripped up for years on the pronounciation of "C" in Tolkien's Sindarin.

I'd heard "Caesar" was properly pronounced "Kaiser" in Latin, but not the overall "C" as "K" rule...
 

I was wrong about the pronunciation of the first letters.

Anyone know when it changed?
 

According to Latin Pronunciation Demystified by Michael A. Covington (Google it) there are a number of pronunciations to choose from. It seems from this and other sources on the Interweb that the "S" sound would have been in use in Shakespeare's time.

[This message has been edited by posulliv (edited March 04, 2011).]
 

No offense here. And Reziac is right, it did generate some interesting discussion, and I, for one, learned something.