The scenario is, When another writer reviews your 13 and shows you how something might be written differently and it fits perfectly. Would it be unethical to use the writers suggestion, verbatim in a rewrite?
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
I'd say, ask them. (Assuming this isn't just a hypothetical.)
Posted by CreganTur (Member # 9549) on :
I'm no expert (and I'm also new here) but I would think that they are implying consent because they're offering a suggestion to you. I would ask just to be on the safe side, though.
Posted by mrmeadors (Member # 6378) on :
Agreed with above. When I give a critique, it's usually with unspoken consent to the person I am critiquing, that they can use whatever suggestions I make. You can always ask, though, I'm sure none of us will bite. Hard.
Mel
Posted by genevive42 (Member # 8714) on :
I agree that the consent is there, but beware that the other person's style might not match up with your own. Make sure it meshes with the rest of what you're writing or it will feel tacked on. A small word or phrasing change is one thing, rewriting a whole passage in someone else's voice is another.
Posted by Tiergan (Member # 7852) on :
It doesn't hurt to ask, but for me, anything I put down on the crit is fair game.
Posted by Natej11 (Member # 8547) on :
Ah, I thought your ethics question was going to be something more exciting, like the trend I've noticed in established writers where the farther into their career you get, the more perverted their writing becomes.
As to the question itself, I agree with the others that if it's a critique or a suggestion it implies permission to use said suggestions. I have a hard time imagining a person who'd go to the effort to read and review your work, then call his lawyer the moment you make a change based on that review .
Posted by Craig (Member # 7899) on :
I'm not so sure Nate. In this day and age, there is someone willing to sue because they don't like the smell of your fart and a lawyer to draw up the papers and a jury to award millions.
I think I'll ask though.
Posted by rstegman (Member # 3233) on :
My legal team is Dewey, Reilly, Cheatum, Bigg And Howe. If you make any change on what you sent me on your first 13, they will give you a call.... <g>
Generally if someone edits your work, there is that implied consent of using the additions they gave. There are times where you need to rewrite what they say in your own words, but it is implied that you are to use what they suggest.
[This message has been edited by rstegman (edited June 24, 2011).]
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I remember in my Internet Fan Fiction days, when we passed our stuff around to each other and commented on it and rewrote this or that, then when we put out the final version put a list of names (well, handles) of those who helped.
If you're submitting a story for publicaion in, say, Analog, that's not an option.
I'm inclined to a "don't ask, don't tell" about this...if some editor or (later) reader asks if someone helped you rewrite a paragraph or several, say so, and name names...but if it doesn't come up, don't say.
Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
What would be the value of feedback given that you could not use? "I think you should say 'Henry was motivated' rather than 'prodded'...but say it all entirely different."
Anyway, lawyers for that? I say, as I've kind of been learning as a small business owner is that a lawyer only has the power you give them. Not that I'm suggesting a complete disregard for law, but even in a "insignificant" realm as writing someone has to stand up for liberty and say "I'm going to write what I will write." And let conscience instead of law determine that outcome. I mean if it becomes illegal to mention anything in the real world, sheesh, what will we write about?
Oh wait, we're fantasy writers...never mind. What will other writers write about?
Posted by EVOC (Member # 9381) on :
You know I had no really given this much thought, both when critiquing someone's work and when receiving critiques. I was always just happy to give/get the help.
I think of the first 13 crits as just a nudge in the right direction. Even a crit of the whole work is just my own thoughts as the reader of this work (an extra set of fresh eyes). I am not really the one editing the work, that is up to the writer.
Anything I offer in a crit has always been a use it or don't, its just my opinion. I certainly wouldn't be angry if they used my suggested (even if it was exact words). I would more likely be flattered, even if I was the only one that knew my help was used.
Posted by Reziac (Member # 9345) on :
Editing for others is fundamentally work for hire. That means you don't own it, nor any part of it. Any attempt to claim otherwise would be frowned on by copyright law, as the edit is essentially a derivative work.
That we do crits/edits for each other for free -- well, we're cheap.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
The question is a good one. And it is never safe to assume anything, I am learning, regarding creative copyright and intellectual property.
Thus, let me put in writing: Any suggestions for improvement, comments, edits, and revisions I voluntarily provide to first 13's, stories, or novels I critique for my fellow Hatrack members are performed without expectation for compensation unless otherwise specified.
[If anyone by chance finds I provide any really significant contribution and their work is subsequently published, feel free to include "...and thanks to Dr. Bob" on your Acknowledgments page. ]
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
Now, here is a second, similar question.
I have been in a situation where someone had an idea and wanted help developing it. It fell into my area of expertise, and so I helped them out, together fleshing out the idea into a fascinating list of possibilities. They then created a story that has since gone on to sell at a semi-pro or token market. Usually I have too many ideas to write about, but this one really has caught my attention. So I am wondering whether it is ethical to write a different story about the same idea? The issue may arise if I happen to sell the story to a pro magazine (not that I have sold to one yet), based on the uniqueness of the idea. What are your thoughts on that?
(Note, in case I actually do become a known author, I have not written any such story, and will ask for permission if I were to do such in the future.)
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
You can't own or copyright ideas. So go ahead and write it.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
After my last post, it occurred to me...editors often do some rewriting once they've bought the damned story, and, usually, nothing is said about that. (I once saw a quote about "polysyllabic praise for a writer who the editor knew couldn't spell K-A-T 'cat'...")
.
]