Hatrack River Writers Workshop: To cliff hang or to lace it up?

This is topic To cliff hang or to lace it up? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :

I'm fairly confident that my current revision priority (New Arbor Day) will by my first published (albeit, epublished) book. I think once I finish revising it will be good enough...or at least I will have reached the point (after much editing mind you) of saying that it's time to move on (even Tolkien didn't think LOTR was ready).

However, I'm having second thoughts about the ending. Most of my stories I imagine in pairs or trilogies because the story just doesn't fit in something smaller.

Currently, I have a vague idea (including title) for a sequel to New Arbor Day, but unlike my next trilogy I don't have concrete plot from beginning to end. I only imagined the story for NAD, but I have only a feeling for its sequel. Is it a seedling? Or would it end up contrived?

But my current ending assumes the sequel is coming, because I've "felt" it was. But it's not like the story is incomplete, I mean there's a loose end or two but the reader can easily resolve them.

My best comparison would be the end of "Ender's Game." "He searched for a long time"? Could the Ender saga end there satisfactorily, yeah probably we know that Ender evidently would eventually find a home for the bugger queen. So was OSC setting us up for a sequel or did he tie it up enough in case that was the end of it?

Basically, do I seal the story because there might not be a sequel? Leave it the way it is loose, but not wide open? Or leave it wide open and plan to march myself through a sequel?

Posted by LMermaid (Member # 2778) on :

My vote would be to leave the ending as is: with the story arc complete, but leaving the possibility of a sequel open. As a reader, I always prefer it when there's a sense of resolution at the end of a book. I feel cheated when the end leaves me completely hanging.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

I'll refer to Ben Bova's 'chain of promises' concept here. The idea is that if you hook a reader with a plot question, then it is an implicit promise that the question will be answered. The 'chain' part of the concept is tangential to your question so I won't get into it.

So, I think if you leave loose ends, the cost will be as great as the questions left unanswered. As OSC says, there isn't necessarily a right or wrong way to do things, just decisions and consequences. Only you can decide if the loose ends are big enough to cost you future readership. Beta readers ought to be able to help you decide this.

[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited July 21, 2011).]

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

quote:
The idea is that if you hook a reader with a plot question, then it is an implicit promise that the question will be answered.

Yeah...remember what happened with Lost...

I come down on the side that any question that's raised within a single book should be answered within the same book. Let sequels or continuations come as they may. You risk alienating readers---and losing sales---if you don't answer them.

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

I concur with Osiris, and Ben Bova ftm.
And JRR as well (recall, LOTR was one story divided by the publisher into three books for size/cost reasons).

If you have a trilogy, then write it and market it as a trilogy.
If you have a novel that might possibly have a sequel, make sure the novel has a satisfying conclusion and stands alone. You risk dissing the reader who gets to your conclusion and discovers the story is incomplete. It is much better to subsequently please a reader who enjoyed your novel with the publication of another later on.

This is not to say you cannot include items or characters, into your initial novel that are external to its main conflict that become part of sequels you only now dimly imagine [I have a couple in THE KABBALIST that my readers have not made comment upon which I included for this purpose--e.g. a magic box that will be subsequently discovered to contain the horn of Gabriel]. Similarly with character relationships. They should reach a conclusion, but we all know that relationships are fluid, and hints of this are natural and undisruptive to the expectations of the reader, in my experience as a reader. But all your main conflicts should be satisfactorily wrapped up.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

P.S. I thought I was done with THE KABBALIST in its absolutely final draft--but the more experience I've gained swith continued writing, and with the continuing feedback (including yours ), I anticipate yet another revision that may finally improve the tale for wider consumption. We shall see.

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

quote:
Yeah...remember what happened with Lost...

I sure do, and I felt the ending was a big letdown. Still, it is the characters that carried that series. I've yet to consume a piece of story-telling that is perfect.

Posted by MattLeo (Member # 9331) on :

The most important thing is to leave the reader satisfied. Every unresolved plot development is a force pushing the story forward, and at the conclusion of the book, the reader should feel the story is at rest.

The main exceptions are epic works that are carved up into separate "books" for publishing reasons, like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, or Paul Park's Princess of Romania. But these are really single, gigantic books.

Of course there are series which contain multi-book arcs. In that case the rule is modified to

(1) The mainspring of the individual book's plot must unwind fully

(2) The characters must reach some key milestone in the multi-book arc.

Take the movie, "The Empire Strikes Back". It's widely regarded as the most satisfying of the Star Wars movies, which makes it a terrific example because it leaves *tons* of loose ends. But the mainspring of the story is Luke's quest to become a Jedi and to confront the killer of his father. What's interesting is that the ending is so satisfying, even though Luke is not only thwarted, but humiliated and disillusioned.

What makes the ending satisfying is that the mainspring of the story is so completely unwound. There is simply no more story to tell about Luke's boyish impetuousness. Yet this sets up the next story, in which the more humble Luke is mature enough to resist the temptation of revenge.

[This message has been edited by MattLeo (edited July 21, 2011).]

Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :

Indeed, we've all seen, and groaned at, the campy monster movies where the hero kills the monster and we get a celebratory denouement as the camera pans off to the monster's corpse, which twitches suddenly before the cut to credits.

A sequel is heralded, but most of us won't bother with it because the ending suggests the sequel will be the same as the movie we just watched. Basically, the writer tied up the plot thread, and then pulled the knot loose. It is a cheap trick to be wary of.

[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited July 21, 2011).]

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I could make an exception for the likes of Lord of the Rings---one giant book divided into three volumes---or, say, someone who's got a three- or four-book set all written out and ready to go. (It'd be hard for Joe Average Reader to know if something like that happens, though.)

But I've been burned too many times by endless series that never get around to resolving anything, that just move on to the next thing, sometimes with new people, sometimes not...

Posted by Natej11 (Member # 8547) on :

That's how it seems like with lots of series these days, Robert. Which is really unfortunate

It seems like writers are so caught up in creating something fantastic and epic that they just keep on going, each book become more and more bogged down as more characters are added and more storylines explored. Until you start to suspect that the author hasn't given any thought to how it all will end, or even if it will.

[This message has been edited by Natej11 (edited July 21, 2011).]

Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :

Thanks for the feedback. To be more specific with my dilemna, I'd say the mainspring is completely unwound. The loose ends are mostly minor, I was immediately thinking of two children that the MC is responsible for. He leaves them with someone else while he goes off to "say goodbye" to someone. I leave the story in that scene, with the assumption that he does go back for the children after the close of the book. So it's not really unresolved it's just "off camera."

The other plot point leaves one of the other protagonists in kind of a ruined state. There's no implied promise that I won't leave him there, but I kind of like him and would like to see him end up differently but for this arc its where he belongs. So the sequel, I vaguely imagine would have to do with his restoration.

The "open door" at the end of the current version is more like "and he had many more adventures." There's no committment and no implied promise of a specific conflict that still needs resolving, more of a he might drop by again.

Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :

Oh yeah, and Dr. Bob it's hard to imagine that you have much revising to do. Other than reining in your propensity for desrcription, which I chalk up to your voice and think readers would adopt once they got used to it, I think you had a very polished feeling story.

Then again, we are our harshest critics are we not?

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

That is kind of you to say.

In truth, part of me wishes to leave it and move on. I fear to rewrite it to death, but I may "SAVE AS" and see what the story looks like incorporating the suggestions I've received.
And maybe I'll be able to thin the description...just a little.

Let us know when the e-pub edition of NEW ARBOR DAY is available.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

To be fair to the writers, a lot of it is commercial pressure---getting published is hard enough, but staying published, over and over again, is another matter. A lot of publishers must want "endless series," or else why are so many of 'em in the racks?

Posted by micmcd (Member # 7977) on :

I faced a similar dilemma at the end of City of Magi, and I think it's fine to leave a clear path to book 2, so long as you clearly resolve book 1. Whatever they were fighting for needs to have been addressed, even if the fight isn't over. You should leave the reader happy if that was the only book of yours he ever picks up. Of course you want to hook your hypothetical reader to continue the series, but if you leave it as a cliffhanger, you can leave the reader feeling dissatisfied.

That being said, I am leaving cliffhangers in Those Who Die Young (Issue 1 epubbing in 2 weeks!), but that's a serial, not a full length book.

Posted by s_merrell (Member # 5339) on :

In summation and agreement with what everyone else has said,

DO BOTH.

We want a good, solid, complete story--but if you deliver on that, we definitely want more. So do the publishers.

Posted by EVOC (Member # 9381) on :

quote:
To be more specific with my dilemna, I'd say the mainspring is completely unwound. The loose ends are mostly minor, I was immediately thinking of two children that the MC is responsible for. He leaves them with someone else while he goes off to "say goodbye" to someone. I leave the story in that scene, with the assumption that he does go back for the children after the close of the book. So it's not really unresolved it's just "off camera."
The other plot point leaves one of the other protagonists in kind of a ruined state. There's no implied promise that I won't leave him there, but I kind of like him and would like to see him end up differently but for this arc its where he belongs. So the sequel, I vaguely imagine would have to do with his restoration.

What you describe first seems acceptable. Of course I have not read the book, but it doesn't seem to really be a cliff hanger. The protagonist that is ruined, well you liking him and wanting his story to continue may make a great second book. But it doesn't sound like leaving him ruined is an issue for this book.

I have read a number of books that have had a character that could return in another book, or have a book of their own, some do many don't. It was still a great book even without a sequel.