[This message has been edited by Radovan (edited April 05, 2007).]
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited April 06, 2007).]
quote:
...Two men lurked by a mound overrun with crops. [CINEMATIC: WE'RE LOOKING AT 2 MEN, AND WE'RE INSIDE NO ONE'S HEAD. LEGAL, BUT USUALLY IT'S MORE GRIPPING IF WE EXPERIENCE THE STORY THROUGH SOMEONE'S EYES.] Their squinting eyes ...
Enjoying the breeze as it cooled his honey skin[; -> ,] he undid his headscarf, nudging the protruding hilt of his backsword. [BACKSWORD?] He put the scarf in a pocket of his open jacket, which matched his light cotton calf-length trousers and checked the backsword, [DO WE CARE WHAT MATCHES?] strapped ...
Narcodon Gath [WHO'S THAT?] ... in Parshkis’s company. [BETTER CLARIFY IF PARSHKIS IS THE MENTOR. EASILY DONE.]
OK, so I accepted that we were doing cinematic, presumably because these were not important characters; we're just going to get scared by something they do and move on. But then it turns out you do know their names, and we do get to be in the head of one. It feels disorienting to me. I suggest you *start* with Narcodan Gath, and show us the first bit from his perspective: what he sees, and also what he cares about here. Depending on what that is, you might have a cool story here (I am curious to know what's going to happen next.)
[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited April 05, 2007).]
Here my take:
quote:
The Sun hung at noon over a cultivated valley, its rays hot and oppressive. A cool breeze provided relief, as it blew downwind along the simmering road, driving before it numerous balls of tumbleweed.
[I think this would be better seen through Narcodon Gath's eyes. That way, the suns rays will be oppressive, and the breeze will be cool to SOMEONE.]Two men lurked by a mound overrun with crops.Their squinting eyes were on the village, which stood at the mouth of the valley on a knoll.
[This is a good place to introduce Parshkis as Gath's mentor, if indeed he is the mentor and not a collegue. Dialogue could help show Parshkis teaching the art of surveillance to his Shu academy pupil.]One of the men, mounted on a nervous grey horse, had the lean muscular physique of the ideal Shu academy graduate.
Enjoying the breeze as it cooled his honey skin; he undid his headscarf, nudging the protruding hilt of his backsword.
[At this point, I don't care how he is dressed or appears; I care what he is doing.The last of this paragraph is included in this...]
He put the scarf in a pocket of his open jacket, which matched his light cotton calf-length trousers and checked the backsword, strapped around his back. Underneath, he wore a thin undershirt of the sort native to these parts and a pair of sandals.Narcodon Gath arched his eyebrows in mounting frustration for he preferred talking to doing nothing. However, many seasons of erudition under his Mentor had taught him the value of silence in Parshkis’s company.
[By this point, I want to know what they are doing/planning or why they are surveilling the town.]
simmering... driving... squinting... Enjoying... nudging... mounting... talking... doing...
You're confusing tenses.
I had to have it pointed out to me, too. Once they did, it was like a wake-up slap in the face. Now, it stands out like a beacon.
quote:
...
Narcodon Gath [WHO'S THAT?] ... in Parshkis’s company. [BETTER CLARIFY IF PARSHKIS IS THE MENTOR. EASILY DONE.]OK, so I accepted that we were doing cinematic, presumably because these were not important characters; we're just going to get scared by something they do and move on. But then it turns out you do know their names, and we do get to be in the head of one. It feels disorienting to me. I suggest you *start* with Narcodan Gath, and show us the first bit from his perspective: what he sees, and also what he cares about here. Depending on what that is, you might have a cool story here (I am curious to know what's going to happen next.)
You are right; both are impact characthers and the opening scene is omni/limited POV. The action start's on the next paragraph.
[This message has been edited by Radovan (edited April 06, 2007).]
quote:
By this point, I want to know what they are doing/planning or why they are surveilling the town.]
simmering... driving... squinting... Enjoying... nudging... mounting... talking... doing...You're confusing tenses.
I had to have it pointed out to me, too. Once they did, it was like a wake-up slap in the face. Now, it stands out like a beacon.
Dear @ inarticulate babbler could you please explain about the confusing tenses? Do you mean as per each sentence or the whole piece? Or are you mistaking the use of simple-past with past-continious as different tenses?
[This message has been edited by Radovan (edited April 06, 2007).]
quote:
Enjoying the breeze as it cooled his honey skin; he undid his headscarf, nudging the protruding hilt of his backsword.
Enjoying, nudging, and protruding are present tense, while cooled and undid are past tense. This confusion often happens when one tries to force too much exposition into one sentence.
Enjoyed, nudged, and protruded would have kept the prose in the past.
i.e. He enjoyed the breeze that cooled his honey skin. As he undid his headscarf, he nudged the hilt of his longsword. It protruded two-handsbreadths over his shoulder.
quote:
A cool breeze provided relief, as it blew downwind along the simmering road, driving before it numerous balls of tumbleweed.
I believe that you can delete the first comma in this sentence. Or just re-write it as "A cool breeze provided relief. It blew downwind along the simmering road and drove before it numerous balls of tumbleweed."
Okay, nits: wind always blows 'downwind,' so I'd suggest deleting that word. As the road is still a solid road, I'm at a loss of how it can simmer (which is 'to keep a liquid at a point just below boiling'). You already established that the sun is hot and oppressive, so I'd suggest cutting 'simmering.' Unless tumbleweeds are important to what happens next, I'd suggest cutting the whole "as it blew...tumbleweed" section. Considering that crops are growing here, I'm a bit surprised that tumbleweeds are freely rolling all over the place, anyway.
quote:
Two men lurked by a mound overrun with crops.
Usually weeds overrun things rather than crops, and crops are usually planted on the flat rather than over a mound, so I'm having a hard time picturing this. What sort of crops are we talking about anyway? Go ahead and name them. Are they recently planted (i.e. short) or about ready for harvest? As in, are you're trying to form an image of this men hiding behind the crops (which won't work if they're on horses) or just trying to show that this is a farm community?
quote:
Their squinting eyes were on the village, which stood at the mouth of the valley on a knoll.
Why not just say, "They squinted at the village at the mouth of the valley..."?
quote:
Enjoying the breeze as it cooled his honey skin; he undid his headscarf, nudging the protruding hilt of his backsword.
If you're going to mention the cool breeze here, then you can cut the earlier mention of it all together. To mention in twice in the first thirteen is a bit repetitive. You'll want a comma instead of a semi-colon. How about saying, "he nudged the protruding hilt of the sword strapped to his back as he undid his headscarf" and then you can delete the later reference that explains that a backsword is strapped to his back?
quote:
He put the scarf in a pocket of his open jacket, which matched his light cotton calf-length trousers and checked the backsword, strapped around his back. Underneath, he wore a thin undershirt of the sort native to these parts and a pair of sandals.
I'll let the headscarf slide because it was in an action, but now you're getting into 'boring descriptions.' At this point, at least, no one cares to read a fashion commentary on the exact material and cut and layering for his clothing or how well his clothes match. I'd suggest cutting it or working it in later as it's relevant. That way we can get into the POV and action more quickly.
[This message has been edited by DebbieKW (edited April 06, 2007).]
quote:"Enjoying" is in participle form; it's not present or past in and of itself. "Is enjoying" would be present tense. The sentence is grammatical. I'll leave untouched the question of whether there are too many participles -- I didn't notice.
Enjoying the breeze as it cooled his honey skin; he undid his headscarf, nudging the protruding hilt of his backsword.
quote:
InarticulateBabbler
Member posted April 06, 2007 02:56 PM
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Here is the quintessential example:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Enjoying the breeze as it cooled his honey skin; he undid his headscarf, nudging the protruding hilt of his backsword.
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Enjoying, nudging, and protruding are present tense, while cooled and undid are past tense. This confusion often happens when one tries to force too much exposition into one sentence.
Enjoyed, nudged, and protruded would have kept the prose in the past.
i.e. He enjoyed the breeze that cooled his honey skin. As he undid his headscarf, he nudged the hilt of his longsword. It protruded two-handsbreadths over his shoulder.
InarticulateBabbler, I beg to disagree, that sentence is grammatically correct in the past tense. I could give you loads of examples, published and unpublished, but let's agree to disagree.
To the rest thanks, y'all for your very enlightening comments.
A word to Debbiew; Thanks for the 'downwind' correction and the sentence re-arrangment. On the otherhand, I come from the tropics and can assure you that a road can 'simmer'; you cannot lie on it or walk on it without protection otherwise you will get burnt. Also when you look at such a road it 'shivers' because of the heat.
The scene is in the tropics and I am recalling an actual one from my youth; an 'old style' farming community with hoes and manual labour etc. In such areas mounds were/are used as vantage points and sun-shades in cultivated fields and are usually not cultivated, hence the 'overrun'. The 'tumbleweeds' come from the weeds, weeded out by the farmers; some are useful, some are not. Both are collected in bundles to dry, when the bad ones are burnt. Also the headscarf is not there for decorative purposes but will be used later in the chapter.
[This message has been edited by Radovan (edited April 06, 2007).]
quote:
I come from the tropics and can assure you that a road can 'simmer'; you cannot lie on it or walk on it without protection otherwise you will get burnt.
If you want to describe a road that is 'so hot that it'll burn you' as 'simmering,' then that's totally fine with me. I was simply pointing out that some people will wonder about it since simmering is used to describe liquids.
quote:
The scene is in the tropics...
This is in the tropics? Um, sorry, but I was envisioning a desert with massive irrigation works going on due to the tumbleweed.
From Wikipedia: Tumbleweed ...typically grows on flat, often dry and/or somewhat saline soils, with some species in saltmarshes.
This is just a warning that a lot of people will think 'flat and dry' or 'desert' when they read 'tumbleweed.'
quote:
In such areas mounds were/are used as vantage points in cultivated fields and are usually not cultivated, hence the 'overrun'.
Again, as a gardener and a farmer, I really don't see CROPS as overrunning a hill. Crops are generally grown from seeds and those seeds are what the crops are harvested for. So cultivated crops only tend to grow where they are planted. I was also getting the impression that this mound was completely covered with crops and that the riders had trampled the crops to stand on the mound.
If you want to indicate a crop that is tropical (to set the scene) and does spread during the growing season, why not pick a specific crop and just tell us that in the story? It'll make visualization for the reader much easier.
But do whatever you like.
If you don't like it; agree with it; or can't see my point of view, ignore it. That's supposed to be how this system works.
When you dispute it - on whatever grounds - it doesn't change what I read, or what I understood from it. You can't explain what is misunderstood to each reader.
My take is just that: MY take.
I had a problem articulating my thoughts. Imagine that!
However, I think you were insulted (which I never intended), and so overlooked my point. I think you tried to force too much exposition into too many sentences, and thus threw me. I'm sorry, too, that you focused on that part of my critique alone.
PS - I critique so I will better learn how to write, myself.
Still, the concept interested me. If it didn't, I wouldn't have taken so much time to try and help.
Hope that I've been of some help.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 10, 2007).]