This is topic First 13 - Rapier Dawn in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by Fooglmog (Member # 7970) on :
 
The following is the first 13 lines from a novel I'm working on right now tentatively titled "Rapier Dawn". The story itself loosely fits into the fantasy genre, based in a world similar to late 16th century Europe (though entirely fictional). Essentially it follows the creation of evolution of a new religion as well as the introduction of the rapier as the weapon of choice (supplanting older, larger swords).

I've been working on this story for about a month and have a little over 20,000 words written. It's not complete, but I've begun questioning the beginning and thinking about retooling it. Criticism would be greatly appreciated:

The street was so covered in **** that Camillo had no need to search for it. In the gutter it mixed with the piss from horses and other beasts along with the castings of chamber pots to form a constant stream slowly wending its way through the city until it reached the water’s edge. There it fell into the river and became trapped in the tidal backwater for weeks before the current could drag it away. Camillo stooped towards this mixture and pulled from it with his left hand a brown lump, which he smeared along the full length of his drawn sword. Wiping his hand on the flank of his tunic, he turned towards his accuser and saw him finishing the same ritual on the opposite side of the street.

Camillo squared to his opponent and bowed, not deeply but deep

***

Thoughts on this passage would be appreciated, and of course I want to know if you'd keep reading.

***EDIT***

Here is a revised version, taking into consideration comments you guys provided:

Camillo was grateful that it had rained that morning. The rain carried the castings of the chamber pots and the scat from the beasts of the city into the gutter. There, it formed a putrid stream that wend its way through the city until it reached the river where it would become trapped in the tidal backwater, sometimes for weeks, before the current could drag it away. It made the whole city reek.

But Camillo was used to the smell and needed the stream. He dipped a rag into the filth and wiped it along the full length of his drawn sword. Satisfied that the blade was amply covered, he cast the rag aside, wiped his hand on the side of his tunic, and turned to face his accuser. He saw the man finishing the same ritual on the opposite side of the street.

[This message has been edited by Fooglmog (edited June 06, 2008).]
 


Posted by nitewriter (Member # 3214) on :
 
Well, it certainly doesn't lack for description. You might consdier flushing...er a fleshing it out a little. Kidding aside, it's a strong image. What I found striking about this opening is that it is described from only a "visual" sense. Why not get the other senses involved? Surely this place must have an almost overpowering smell - but no mention is made of that. I admit though that combined with the visual description you run the risk of sending your reader scurrying for an emetic.

"In the gutter it mixed with..." Read a little awkward to me - and could be streamlined. "The maggot infested mixture of horse piss and rotting food moved slowly in the gutter..."

I wondered why he would pick up a brown "lump" to smear on the sword when it would be easier to simply dip his sword into some of this muck.

"...the full length of his drawn sword." Here "drawn" could be deleted as how could he smear the blade if it were not?

Ya, I would keep reading this.

[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited May 08, 2008).]
 


Posted by MrsBrown (Member # 5195) on :
 
Sorry, I can't get past the "Ew!" factor. I would not read on. You might be able to mitigate that if he doesn't touch the crap with his hands and wipe it on his clothes.

As for a crit, my main reaction was, this opening description is going on too long (you almost lost me there), but then when it was part of the story, it made sense. I also found it unnecessary and therefore distracting to use **** in the setting description (as opposed to dialogue).

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited May 08, 2008).]
 


Posted by Unwritten (Member # 7960) on :
 
I would keep reading. It's a great start.

That second sentence might flow (no pun intended) into the next sentence if you said something like,
"A constant stream of it wound through the city, until it fell into the river and became trapped in the tidal backwater." Talking about **** as an opener is an interesting choice, but it certainly catches the essence of your setting!

There might be a word you could substitute for ****. For me its off putting to have it in the first sentence. Then again, I've never been a great reflection of the majority.

I agree with nitewriter that you should add something about the smell of the city--maybe his physical reaction when he picks it up???
 


Posted by Pyraxis (Member # 7990) on :
 
I like the disgust factor. It gives me high hopes for the novel's historical accuracy. (Kudos on getting the left hand right, too - I just re-read it to confirm and saw that I indeed was cheated out of a chance to complain.) I agree though that it might make more sense to dip the blade in the crap.

I would keep reading.
 


Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :
 
Did you put the **** there, or is that a substitution by the machine?
 
Posted by Fooglmog (Member # 7970) on :
 
That's a susbtitute by the forum here.

As far as dipping the sword rather than his hand. Clearly it needs to be changed, if it was distracting to so many of you, but I'm not sure that dipping the sword would work in practicality.

I mean, the stream is only a few inches deep and I specifically want it along the full length of the blade. In order to do that, you'd essentially have to lie the sword down in the liquid... which would get it on the guard and possibly even grip of the sword as well.

Any thoughts as to a practical way by which he could get the entire blade covered without putting his hand is nor risking getting the sludge on his grip or guard?

[This message has been edited by Fooglmog (edited May 23, 2008).]
 


Posted by chimpwithpencil (Member # 7866) on :
 
Fooglmog,

I like this introduction. It's gritty. I felt like a nervous bystander about to watch two guys make a serious effort to kill each other.

Regarding the problem of getting the blade coated without leaving the grip slick, what if someone was hauling out a big chamberpot and before they dump it, the character dips his sword in it? If it was a pot from a communal sleeping room it might be full enough to wet most of the blade. I wouldn't use my own hand because swords are sharp, and I'd cut myself and get an infection.

I may be wrong, but reading it I got the impression that when he was prepping his rapier, his back was to his opponent. I don't know how wide the street is, but I wouldn't have my back to a guy who's about to fight me. This is just how I read it, because the character turns toward his opponent.

Overall, this is a strong start and I wish you luck with it.

Sincerely,
chimpwithpencil


 


Posted by Devnal (Member # 6724) on :
 
I think the carp factor is definetely too overpowering and in a sense taking away from the actual story. If this is historically accurate (I am no history buff so I'm taking your word on it.) and was a common thing to do (though I myself would think it would be unhonorable) I would suggest playing it down a bit and getting to the conflict.

I did enjoy the flow and writing style - easy to read and paints a good picture
 


Posted by Craig (Member # 7899) on :
 
well Fooglmog I'm new at this,but Just my Idea.

How about if you had him spear the brown lump with his sword.
Then he holds the sword up and lets the lump slide down the length of the blade,and he flicks it away when it reaches the hilt.
 


Posted by RobertB (Member # 6722) on :
 
Perhaps he could dip a rag in it, wipe the rag along the blade, and then - I'm assuming this isn't a very hygienic age - wipe his hand on his trousers.
 
Posted by Fooglmog (Member # 7970) on :
 
Okay, thanks for the thoughts guys.

Basically what I'm hearing is that, you guys are capturing the environment, I've created but that the way it's being described and interacted with is making a lot of people just go "ew, I don't want to read a story about this".

I'm summarizing what I think been said so that you guys can correct me if I have the wrong impression. Otherwise though, I'd like to thank all of you who've commented. It's been really helpful and I'm going to head off and retool my opening chapter based on some of the feedback that's been given.

I'll probably post a revision some time in the middle of next week. I may also be looking for readers for the first 15000-20000 words then.

Thanks again for the help!
 


Posted by micmcd (Member # 7977) on :
 
I'm a fan of the "disgust" level of the introduction, and it definitely sets the tone for the work. I'm guessing nobody rides a unicorn or graduates from magic middle school in your book.

Though I have absolutely no problem with the level of language, etc, I can see some people being turned off by an expletive, even when meant quite literally, in the first sentence. You couldn't use the word "poop" to quite the same effect, unless the intent was to make me fall over laughing after reading it with the rest of this gritty scene. Feces works though, or if there is a word for horse crap similar to "scat" for bears, that would work just fine. Even if a reader wasn't familiar with the scat-equivalent term, I think any confusion would be taken care of by the brown lump he runs up and down his sword.

My curiosity is piqued though, and I'd be inclined to read more. Curses or no. I'd be up for reading the longer section too.
 


Posted by Fooglmog (Member # 7970) on :
 
I rewrote the first three chapters over the last couple days, which are the chapters that contain the majority of the rebarbative place settings. The expletive in the first sentence was the only one in the entire work, though it too has been removed.

I've just posted the re-written first 13 lines. I'd appreciate thoughts as to whether or not it solves the issues that have been outlined above. I'll also take thoughts as to whether or not there's anything that the original version has which my rewrite lacks.

Once again, I'd like to send out the first 20,000 words of this story next week (either wednesday or thursday). I'm waiting because internet here in Uganda is slow and my browser times out before I can upload the attachment. Next week will have me in Ontario though, which ought not present the same problem. Anyway, if there's anyone else interested in reading the first 20,000 words and giving feedback, please post here.

THanks again for all the help guys.
 


Posted by micmcd (Member # 7977) on :
 
Wait, what? You're in Uganda? Uganda, not Utica? And I thought driving across Wyoming in a few weeks was going to be an adventure.
 
Posted by Fooglmog (Member # 7970) on :
 
I've never been to Wyoming... or Utica for that matter.

Enjoy yourself mate.
 


Posted by chimpwithpencil (Member # 7866) on :
 
I like the new version. It has all the punch of the original, but the writing is better. And the rag on the blade makes more sense. Good stuff.

Sorry I can't volunteer to read the first 20,000, but I'm swamped right now.

Sincerely,
chimpwithpencil
 




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