This is topic WOTF Group in forum Hatrack Groups at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
I'm surprised there isn't already a Writers of the Future Group here at Hatrack. So, we need to create one. My ideas for it are simple:

1) Exchange our WOTF stories before the next quarter's deadline. We need to decide how for out. Something like two (maybe three) weeks would probably work--enough time for the author to consider and make the suggested changes.

Depending on how many people participate, I think it would be fine for everyone to get everyone's stories. If, say, we have five people, that would only involve reading four other stories.

2) The level of critiquing would be up to the individual.

If you want to do a more involved line edit, fine. If you just read through the story and give general thoughts and impressions, that's fine too.

It may or may not be too late to get this started before the next deadline (Sept. 30th), but we DO need to get this going. Plenty of people here at Hatrack are trying to place in the contest. It only makes sense that we should help each other out.


Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Sounds good. Perhaps before the Q108 deadline on 12/31/07. A month for rough draft. A month for second draft. A month for final revisions and proofing.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Well, I'm already swapping stories with you Christopher, but I thought I'd join in on the fun anyhow. Especially if there's going to be more help here than at that other forum. I'm in.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I'm interested. Though, I agree with ChrisOwens: it's too late for this quarter, it ends in three days, and you manuscripts have to be postmarked before then. Plus, I've already sent mine off.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited September 26, 2007).]

Posted by walt.xeppuk (Member # 5489) on :
I'd be willing to go in on that. I started here and by the time I heard about WOTF it was 2 weeks off. So I didn't get anything entered. I would like to though for next time. walt
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Okay, I'm interested!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Right now I'm wishing that mine was finished and sent off. I always end up riding them right up until the end. Need to do better at this. So do we want to try and have first drafts out by the end of October for the next quarter? I think this is a great idea. Progressive deadlines should help me.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
If we wait until 31 will we have enough time for the turn around?

How about something like this:

Is two weeks for writing and critiquing too much or too little? The end gets a little tight, too, but by then the drafts should be smoother.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited September 27, 2007).]

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Depends on how much turn around time is necessary (number of stories for each person to read/critique) and how many editing drafts we want to put this through. I'm usually good with about two "out of house": the first for high-level story/character arc ideas, and the second for a line edit. I think I'd have a difficult time pumping out my entire story in two weeks. Of course that doesn't mean anyone else would though. Do we even need a solid structure to this? Or could it just be a "whenever" thing?
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
I agree with Dan. I need more of a break--just sent my story in this morning. How about...

*First drafts sent to members by Nov 7th.

This is a general read through. It should focus on characterization, ploting, and maybe general comments about writing style etc. It is a waste of time to line edit first drafts when so much of it is probably going to be rewritten again anyway.

*First draft crits returned by Nov 21st.

*Second drafts sent to members by Dec 7th.

This is for line edit and very specific comments. Of course we can also comment on anything we felt didn't get fixed even after our suggestions on the first draft.

*Second drafts returned by Dec. 21st.

I don't think third drafts are necessary. When I've done this with other people in the past, third draft crits are usually just to catch typos. Most of us have someone around who can do that. We need the "writers" comments more on the first two drafts.

I know this suggested time line might be pushing it too close to the end for some people. But, I need a good break after each deadline to not think about short-stories. I use the time to keep pluggin' away on my novel.

Thinking out loud, another idea which might work for everyone is starting crits earlier. Let's say Oct. 15 or Nov. 1st. Anyone can send their story out at that time and can simply state what type of crit they want. 1) General story read through 2) Line edit 3) Specific for typos...whatever.

Then, people who write early can sent it out early. And those of us who write finish later can send it out later knowing they will probably only have time to get the 1) General read through or 2) the line edit.

Oh, and another deadline. Let's say we have this figured out in the next week.


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
The schedule Christopher suggested is fine by me.

WriterDan, I'd like to have some guidelines, rather than just a "whenever" thing. There's some fudge room, obviously, but it's good to have a goal to make sure things go smoothly, and so I can plan my schedule.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I like the Nov.7th deadline for first drafts, because I have at least one short story challenge going on, a WIP, a collaboration beginning with another Hatracker, and a 9-10 hour-a-day/6 days-a-week job. (And I have 3 kids )

I only do 1 draft. I write one closed-door draft, pass it off for critique, edit the draft, then pass it off for a final, polish critique. Then I let my wife tear the hell out of it. Now she is brutal! (I think if she liked a single sentence that I wrote, it'd be because she thought I was quoting someone else.)By then, if it ain't worthy, it'll never be.

So, essentially, I'm saying that we should ony need two critique dates. I find, that if I read something too many times, I just see the unchanged things. Twice is actually pushing it.

By my count, there are six of us. How long are each of us figuring our story will be? I'm hoping to keep it in the 5-7,000 word range. (I often go longer then have to trim.) The reason that I ask is because I want to have mine sent in by Dec. 7th. If no one else is thinking along those lines, I may only be in the first-round of critiquing.

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
I'm shooting for the 5-7K myself. Two critiques is fine by me--I think I misunderstood someone else's post about the number of crits desired.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So this is all sounding just fine to me. (Nov 7th, first draft. Two critiques.) Especially the break. I'm still recovering from my extremely late Friday night. This early deadline thing is going to help me so much. Don't know where my next story will end up size-wise. Although, I have to admit that editing this most recent 7K word entry was much easier than my previous one, which was closer to 14K. I'll probably be reaching for something in the realm of fewer than 10K to be sure. And the title for my next Wotf submission: Dames and Doughnuts
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So is this going to be a "send everything to everyone" deal, or what? Just been thinking about this lately. Going to finally dive into starting this one today. One month to go and counting. Ah, and was curious if anyone is planning on doing NaNoWriMo. That's coming up soon. I'm contemplating it, but know it'd be tough.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
It's looking like my Apocalyptic Taco Mix challenge story will also be my next WOTF entry. So, I will already have some feedback before it's due in this group. That ought to give me enough time to have a rewrite/edit ready.

Hopefully, that means that once you all go through it, it should be ready for polish--hence I will have more time to help out with any of you who need it.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited October 08, 2007).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
I'm halfway through my first draft. Trying to aim for a short story length for a change, instead of novelette. WOTF is biased toward the novelettes, but longer works are, of course, much harder to revise and proof.

Even though Nov 7th seems so far away, I'm panicking. The first draft is very rough. I hate to show people my dirty laundry like that.

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I'm waiting for anyone who i ready to swap firsts. And, Chris, I don't judge by the first draft, it just seems that's the place that critiques are most effective. A polish critique always comes when you're deeply invested. Right now, I'm letting the story cool (that way I'll be more open to critiques).

My Q407 was turned down. I thought it might be--the day after I sent it, I learned that there has to be a more obvious "speculative" element. That attempt had no obvious magic or monsters, it was too mundane.

This one's sci-fi/space opera. So, there won't be that problem.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Dang. You must turn your entries in way early. I'm always doing wheelies around the corner as I drive for the Post Office near closing time of the entry deadline.

So, I'm curious IAB, did you get a letter back with your entry, or just the manuscript. Well, I'm assuming that you get your manuscript mailed back to you. I always do. And of the three entries that I've made, I've had two come back with nothing, and one come back with a rejection letter. That one (3Q-07), just happened to be the one that had an obvious speculative element early on in the story. Wondering if my first two were dumped onto the rejection pile without even being seriously read (for more than a page) because of that issue. Just trying to figure things out.

Planning on having my first draft done by the end of the month. Want to be able to spend all of November on my novel for NaNoWriMo. Then it'll be back to Dames and Doughnuts (or whatever this is going to end up being called) for Dec. Anyone else getting close to being finished with the first draft?

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Got an email back, suggesting that I look on the blog for reasons manuscripts are commonly disqualified. Like I said, within an hour of sending it in, I found out about the "obvious speculative element", so I kind of had my depression out then.
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Hey guys, just to give you a heads up, I might not be able to submit a story this time round. I just got back from a three-week trip. I'd rather foolishly thought I could write a lot during that time, but I have written nothing. So, I'm going to hustle to get something written by Nov 7, but I gotta say, I'm drawing blanks on ideas right now.

Anyway, I'm still happy to crit stuff, so go ahead and send to my email addy whenever.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So, my first draft isn't quite done. Decided to re-write about half-way through. Just wasn't coming out right. So, I'm banging for Nov 7th now.

And as a point of interest...honorable mentions for WotF 4Q2007 have already been sent out. Time to set up the old tent by the mailbox... Luck to all those that have something in.

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
I mananged to move from rough draft to a true first draft that I'm not so embarassed about showing. Then again, maybe I should be. Since it was Nov 7th, I forced myself to tag on the new ending this morning.

Anyway who want to swap, I'm up for it...

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
WriterDan, your wheelies around the corner made me laugh. I was so proud of myself this last time because I got the story in the mail on I think September 28. But now of course I'm chewing my nails down to the quick because I never got one of those handy "we received your submission" emails. I wonder if it got lost in the mail. My mail carrier hates me, or at least I'm left to conclude that since she leaves my mailbox open all the time, here in the Wind Tunnel that is my street. I sometimes find parts of my mail 3 houses away, which on large lots can be as much as 500 feet down the block. Yikes.

But maybe it just slipped through the cracks. Since I hadn't gotten around to emailing the general contest email with a "did you get my submission" request, maybe I'll just sit tight another week or two and let this ulcer continue to form.

Then for next cycle...IB, I think I'm going to use my Apocalyptic Taco Mix story too, which is a little amusing since you and I appear to be tied right now. But it's a story I had a lot of fun with and is somewhat well fleshed out. With Nano sucking my brain dry this month, I'm not sure I'll be able to come up with anything else before Dec 31.

Meanwhile, I'd be happy to trade crits and polish review rounds with a few others (I'd have to say some smaller number like 2-3, since I found the Apocalyptic Taco Mix 9 crits daunting. It's my own fault, I tend to write lengthy feedback, but so be it.) So - is that something that's on the table for this group? Exchanging stories within small groups? I think there's some benefit to that, too, because then perhaps folks would be amenable to reading cleaned-up versions, subsequent drafts, etc. I know I benefit from rewriting a section, then submitting it back to the person who told me it was whack, to ask them "hey - did I fix that part where the evil robot monkeys went on a hayride, or is it still too melodramatic?"

ANYWAY - let me know! And dan, still LOL at the wheelies.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So, I've emailed everyone that posted to the group with the first draft of my story (originally called Dames and Doughnuts, but now Chances, choices). Don't have an email option for you KayTi. Email me so I can respond to you. Anyone feel free to email your first drafts to me. I'm open and ready.

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 08, 2007).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :

I didn't realize I'd my old email address in my profile. I've since updated it:

I'm trying to leave hotmail altogether...

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
KayTi it's a good story. By the way, you're ahead of me by one vote, currently. I'm tied for second with halogen. It all hangs on meg.stout. (Personally, I'm fine with you giving the next trigger. ) I see your point about too many critiques. However, if you focus on the redundancies of the multitude of critiques, you'll cement the real problems. The differences--that sometimes seem to tear out every bit of it--are personal quirks. You should know that it's all in the patterns.

WriterDan, I got your email, I'll send you out mine shortly.

I'm letting mine cool off right now, working on a different project (a collaboration with a fellow Hatracker) while my brain adjusts. Hopefully next week, I can restart, using the first draft as an outline.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
IB, according to my tally we're tied, but I haven't looked at it lately. Cool either way, it's been an awesome process. To clarify, it's the process of me WRITING 8 or 9 crits that is daunting. I am a feedback hound, I love lots of crits because it becomes REALLY clear what works and what doesn't, and where I should spend my energy.

But, I'd like to be in anyway, but I will probably have to sit out the first round because, like I said, Nano is sucking my soul dry this month. (in a good way, but when you find yourself shopping for carpel tunnel relief measures, you know at least your wrists need a break...)

Meanwhile, did you guys see that the winners were posted on Nov 6 I think? Still waiting to see if mine will be returned to me (I include SASE, but since they didn't acknowledge receipt of my MS, maybe it never got there...)

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Those were the winners for Q307. The finalists were known for some time. The jury is still out on Q407, even though some HM and nonplacers have been reported already.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Thanks for clarify, Chris. I don't know why I find the whole quarterly structure so darn impossible to follow. Couldn't they just say the Sept 07 results?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
That'd be too easy. lol.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Q407 finalists have been posted on the WotF blog. Anyone in our group lucky enough?
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Chris Owens! He (making a gross assumption that this Chris = male, I know that's not always the case) posted on the main open forums and that's his name in the list.

Congrats again!

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Thanks again, Kayti. Yep, Chris=male in this case. Although there is another Chris Owens who is a female burlesque dancer.

Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Congrats Chris. I'll keep some fingers crossed for you. Which might make for some awkward typing... Best of luck.
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Thanks. If it doesn't win, your feedback will help me try again next time!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :

I've received and returned a story from the following people:


Is anyone else entering a story? I'm still more than happy to go over a first draft copy whenever you get it done. And yes, maybe I do have ulterior motives with this one.

The second draft of my story is just as good as a first. After comments I got back from people (3 of you, thank you immensely) I wrote a second draft and kept (I think) approximately 15-20% of the material from the first draft.

So, I'm looking for people that are, for all intents and purposes, first readers. This won't be a line edit for me. For my first draft, I just sent out a copy of the story to everyone, but only got three responses back. So, I don't want to spam you anymore.

If you haven't already, make a post in this thread that says you will read first drafts and make a critique. If you don't make deadlines, apologize profusely (we all are busy people and are, actually, quite forgiving) and keep moving forward.

So, send me your stories, and I'll send you mine! It'll be great! Get writing people!

PS IAB -- I'll send you a copy of draft2 on Monday. We'll see if I did any better this time. I think I freaked myself out. lol.

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 25, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 25, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited November 26, 2007).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
I too have recieved good input from IAB on my rough draft, and WriterDan & Paul Comstock(who's not part of this group) on my first draft.

As I transition into my second draft, I'd really like to get a female perspective since the viewpoint character is female.

Of course, my wife's already read it, but she's neither an aspiring writer nor a serious genre reader. Besides, a spouse's comments are always suspect, being the literay equivelent to the answer to "Does this dress make me look fat?"

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Well, if I'm going to get my entry in on time, I'm going to have to bite the bullet, and go into final edit mode. Then after a final proofing or so, send it out. Of course, there's a 37% chance that I won't need to worry about Q108 at all...

Here's to hoping...

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Yeah. Ironically, I'm about a third of the way through my second draft. I hope to knock it out in the next couple of days, and get some people to have a second look. Then a smoothing of typos (I always miss something) and it's off.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Well, I don't think I'm going to make the Dec 7th deadline that we originally set up. I still have about a third of this new incarnation of my story to write to get through the "first draft" before sending it out. I'm hoping to have it finished by Monday and be able to farm it out to a few people. We'll see though. I'm in charge of the Christmas party at church Saturday night. It's always crunch time at my house. I'm open to having people send me whatever, whenever. Shoot me an email with your prospects and I'll do my best. Later all. And luck!
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Yeah, you can send me anything that's ready, too. Mine has evolved into a similar, but different beast. I think it may become a novelette. I'm really pounding on it to get it done, and with the two flash-challenges that interrupted me, I'm pulling double duty to finish.

(Note to self: don't accept any challenges without first completing your commitments.)

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Well, the second draft is finished. I sent it to Chris and Dan, anyone else?
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Hey, what happened to Christopher? He started this group and then ditched and took walt.xeppuk with him. What's up with that?

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 12, 2007).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
This reminds me of when I first began on Hatrack. I went through 2 writing groups and most dropped out before we made it through a single round. At least between the 3 of us, we did manage to crit each others stories. I would've loved to have received a female perspective other than my wife's, but alas...
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
Hey, I bailed on the group early since I realized I didn't have time or energy to write a story, but I'm happy to read people's stuff, if they want (and I'm female!). Feel free to send anything along.
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Well, it's make or break time. Time for a final proofreading, and then the big bon voyage!

This is the part I hate. There are bound to be mistakes that slip through. 'Wither' instead of 'whither', ect... Time to read backwards or any other proofreading tricks that can be mustered.

To be safe, ship off probably would be better by Saturday if not earlier. While the post office motto is "Neither rain, nor snow..." it doesn't say anything about incompentence.

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
I have to say, I'm impressed by the dedication and the hard work all of you have put into your stories. Good luck!

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited December 23, 2007).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Mine will be mailed off Monday (Christmas Eve). It only has to be postmarked before the 1st.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 24, 2007).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Bon voyage, Q108 story! Look out for the literay iceburgs!
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
Good Luck, Chris. You're due.

Good Luck, KayTi. Hopefully you sent it in.

And Good Luck, Dan, too--if you got it in the mail.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited December 28, 2007).]

Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Best wishes to you too and to all!
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Good luck to everyone who submitted this quarter!

Couldn't get mine done. The whole "change 1st person to 3rd person" (which I REALLY think was necessary to make it a viable option for a win/publication) put me too far out time-wise to get it done. I'm frustrated, but am planning on polishing it for submission somewhere else. Had a new idea for a short story, and I like it better than this last run. So, I'm going to dive into that one for 2008Q02. Speaking of, are we going to run the same gauntlets for this upcoming quarter? If so, we need some new deadlines. Going off of this last quarter's schedule this put us at:

Feb 7th: First drafts out for high-level crits

Mar 7th: Second drafts out for (hopefully by that point) line edits.

Let everyone take a lesson home from my 2008Q01 story -- don't rewrite your entire story three times and then decide on a POV change. How do these dates sound to everyone? Anyone planning on a swap this quarter let us know. And tell you what, to make things easy why don't we do a running list?

I'm in (WriterDan)

Anyone that wants to swap stories this quarter, list my name and your own in your reply. Next to respond, list our two names and then your own. Etc. Will make initial crit send outs easier, I think. Let's get busy. Later all. And luck!


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Hey everyone - sorry I dropped off the face of the earth for a while there. Family drama. Painful. Better now (and my immediate family is happy, and still busy playing with their xmas toys - husband included, LOL.)

ANYWAY - long story short, the NIGHT of Dec 30 I rewrote my entire apocalyptic taco mix story. I retitled it "All We've Got Left." Yeah, that was incredibly painful. I'm relatively sure it's a steaming pile of dung, but hey - I made a commitment to myself to write and submit. It definitely was the best story I had in the works.

In case you were curious as to why one would take on the suicidal mission of prepping a story the night before the deadline...well, I got creamed on the crits I received from here and elsewhere in late nov/early dec - sat on them a while to try to figure out what to do. It was good, meaty stuff about character motivations and plausibility of the setup and other things that needed to be addressed - I definitely agreed with all the crits. But procrastinated the work. Then got bogged down by family drama and used other outlets to escape/let my mind be. So I found myself on Dec 30 with my husband out for the night, kids in bed at a reasonable hour, and I worked til midnight and turned out something. <shrug> We'll see.

Clearly I was too late for crits of any sort from anyone, so I'm sure the whole thing is riddled with problems even after spell checks and read-throughs. Oh, and I discovered after I mailed it that I believe I neglected to do the proper paragraph formatting, so it might well come back unread. I prefer to work in a small font, single-spaced, one whitespace between each paragraph, I typically format it for pub immediately before submitting (that's a visual cue to me, too, that I've submitted something.) I remembered to switch fonts, double space, format the cover page correctly, and all that, but I don't think I remembered to indent the paragraphs. We'll see if that's enough to DQ.

ANYWAY - all this to say I think I've got what I need to behind me now, and need to get cracking on a Q2 entry. I need some inspiration, though. I'm thinking of taking a flash challenge from Liberty Hall from the summer that was a pretty good start/interesting idea and working with that, but it'll need to be retooled. I am also hoping to do some more LH challenges now that we're back into the new year, and maybe that will spawn some new ideas for me. My main projects for the new year are non-fiction, so I need an idea mill.

Um, so what does that say for me? Count me in...sortof? I just can't take 30k of critting all at once - I tend to be verbose with my feedback, it takes me a while. That's my only concern/issue. I will try to check this spot more frequently and/or maybe we should trade emails and just do a small email chain for sending stories, so they could be sent whenever drafts are done.

I am really sorry I wasn't available for crits last time. Chris, I'd be happy to give you a chickview on your story even if just for hindsight. Let me know.

Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
WofF 2008Q02:


If you want to join the crit group please cut and paste the list above and add your name. Check WriterDan's post above for details on deadlines and how-to.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited January 03, 2008).]

Posted by halogen (Member # 6494) on :
halogen - I'll be happy to do some critiquing though I'm only 50/50 getting something done in time
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I think it'd be okay to start a new topic for Q/2/08 (WOTF Q208), it's a new group.
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Thanks for the offer. I'm really sick of the story by now. I'm glad to have sent it out so I don't have to look at it or consider it for quite some time.

Writer Dan,
Why did you switch to 3rd person? The vast majority of the stories in the latest anthology were in first person. Perhaps 1st is the new 3rd.


I'm thinking of taking the Q2 quarter off. I feel like I'm in the middle of a creative dry spell. While I'm playing with an idea, I'm not sure if I'll have anything of worth by then. Already, I feel a passive viewpoint character coming on...a death nail from the getgo.

Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
I would be interested in joining your group for the next quarter. I sent my own entry off in time to get my postmarked on the 31st. I got another that needs some tweeking for this quarter. What do you say? Got room for one more?
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
IAB: Great idea for a new group. I'll start it up. So, does this mean that you're in for next quarter? I'll assume such. Let me know if not though, and I'll take your name off the list in the new group.

ChrisO: Needed to move to 3rd person because of a POV issue. I had this guy inside another version of himself, but unable to do anything but watch what was going on and have his own unique thoughts. This idea seemed almost impossible to get across in first person, and most people (I got the general idea) had a difficult time understanding what was going on during those scenes. So, it'll have to be stuck for another time.

Snapper: Always room for another. I'll put you on the list.

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited January 08, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited January 08, 2008).]

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