This is topic WOTF Group 2008 Q03 in forum Hatrack Groups at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
This is a critique group for writers that will be entering a story for the third quarter of 2008 in the Writers of the Future contest (25th year).

Anyone is welcome to join. If you do though, please follow the directions for such. Currently, the group consists of me:
WriterDan

If you want to join the group for this quarter, please repost the current names list in a reply and add your name to the bottom.

Deadlines for this quarter's crits are as follows:

May 7th: First drafts out for high-level crits (plot, character arc, etc.)

June 7th: Second drafts out for low-level crits and line edits

June 30th: Mail-in deadline for Q03

Sign up! And let's get busy writing!
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I'll give it a shot. Though, hopefully, I'll win Q2.

For your cut-and-pasting pleasure:

_____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
_____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree

This will probably be my last Quarter. I am setting my sights on the gold this time.
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
_____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
darklight

You beat me to it WriterDan, I was going to start the group off this quater.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Here we go again!

____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
darklight
annepin
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
lol! Okay, annepin. I just read your comment and got this picture of trundling out of one roller coaster and into another.

Glad to see that everyone is on board. Looking forward to another great quarter with you all.
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
If you reverse annepin and darklight's nicks and read the first letters down it's Wibad (we bad). *bored*
 
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight

Here ya go IAB.

Now we need a mascott!
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Skadder and I are waiting for A R Martin or Acriter to join so we can call this group
Wi-bad-ass
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
This just keeps getting better. rofl
 
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Lol. See what happens when you have to many idle creative minds.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Here I come, screwing up the fun acronym...

____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti

Wi-Badk? Wik-bad? Kwi-bad?

I promise to make it in this time. Cross heart, offer soul to devil.


 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
if we had an e and another d it could be wiked bad...
 
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
You could throw another "c" in the mix and come up with an orthodox spelling of "wicked bad"
 
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
 
Well, I entered last quarter but wasn't in the gang. So, I am in.

____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder

BAD WISK. I hope that isn't a prtent that at this point we are a bad mixture.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited April 02, 2008).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
snapper

or

SKID SWAB

Man does that sound gross

 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Swab Kids?
Ab Skwids?
Wakd Ass?

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 02, 2008).]
 


Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
I'm in.

____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
Christopher


 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Wickd Ass? one more "e" and it may be something naughty.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 03, 2008).]
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Count me in!

____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
Christopher
Patrick James

=BAD KIS PCW=

 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Hey!

Have I've been kicked out already!?!?

geez, it usually takes a week or two before I piss people off that much. This must be a new record for me.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Christopher's fault. lol. You're in. Don't worry.

____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
snapper
Christopher
Patrick James

Now, I think this is much better:

DIS WACK PBS

That's sayin something. Better than public television. Get your educator hats on folks. We're in for a ride.
 


Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
 
Bawds picks!
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
quote:
Hey! Have I've been kicked out already!?!?

geez, it usually takes a week or two before I piss people off that much. This must be a new record for me.


Sorry, dude. My cut and paste sucks.

You'll always have a place in my heart .

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited April 08, 2008).]
 


Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :
 
____IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
snapper
Christopher
Patrick James
Cheyne

Swack PCB kids

OK people we need more vowels. Unless Annepin and IAB can promise two stories. Or do we recruit?

seriously, this is my first time even considering a contest so if someone can post a link to any guidelines that would be helpful--i know so is google.

 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Here you go.
 
Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :
 
IB- Thanks.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
And thanks from me too, IB. I should know the maximum length by now, but I just can't seem to remember it. I've been meaning to look it up for a few days but never got around to it. Thanks to you, I now have a quick and convenient link.

I'm a bit over 9,500 words in, so I don't have much more to play with. How's it going guys?
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Actually, been kind of rough. About 2500 words in, but think I'm going to cut the last 1000 or so and rewrite them. Need to work on my character some more. Had another great idea for a story yesterday, and actually considered writing that one instead. Really want to get this one out though. We'll see. Looking forward to the deadline and getting nervous already. Write!
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say:

Please send your drafts out as soon as they are done.

Esp. with this many people if we can spread out the work as much as possible the better.

Happy writing, all! Looking forward to reading your stuff.
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
*I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say:
Please send your drafts out as soon as they are done.*

Yes, you're definately speaking for me. Please send whenever you have something.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited April 10, 2008).]
 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I'm a little worried about the #s involved. Can we consider breaking into two groups to crit? I just can't imagine having time to read and crit 10 other stories that probably average 10k each. My writing time is limited enough, critting pulls from that time. I know not everyone (me in particular) gets drafts in by the deadlines and such, but still, it's a daunting number.


 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Probably not a half bad idea(splitting the group). Is there a precident for doing this?
 
Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
I would like to join!
 
Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
IN FOR THIS QUARTER_____
WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
snapper
Christopher
Patrick James
Cheyne
Jared Page
___________

P.K. Dic_ B saw as JC

[This message has been edited by Patrick James (edited April 11, 2008).]
 


Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
quote:
Probably not a half bad idea(splitting the group). Is there a precident for doing this?

I'd recommend that you split up a bit. When I used to actually create groups, I would keep them at six or fewer.

The hard part may be figuring out who goes into which group. I'd be willing to assist, if you like. I could think of a number from 1 to 50, or something like that.


 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
We could make this a school yard pick.

I pick Woodbury!

Seriously, we are doing two crit dates, right? We can split and view half the submits for the first reading then we can read the other half at the next reading, got it? So everyone reads all the submissions but they only give one crit apiece.

[This message has been edited by snapper (edited April 12, 2008).]
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
No fair snapper! I called her first!

I got the new kid!

I am at a loss for how to pick, I yield to KDW
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Okay, so a ton of people have signed up and I'm feeling like the whole split group thing would be a good idea. I think if KDW split us up into two groups of six (Group1, Group2). If we have anyone else sign up, we'll have to split into three groups. Take us down to 4,4,5. I agree that any more than six people in a single group would be tough. Additionally, I also really like the idea of switching across groups for the second round of crits. This would allow for new perspectives on the same story after the first round.

KDW, could you split up the twelve of us into two groups? That would be the easiest, I think. If it comes to another split (into three groups), we may ask for some more help. Hope that's okay. Thanks for the interest in what we're doing.

If anyone else has an idea, please put it forward and we can discuss it. I've just found that with these types of things, it's best to just get something on the table and move forward.

So, there'll be two group lists from here on out. Hope this works okay. I don't know that we have much choice but to split. Let's get writing people!

Later.
 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
Why aren't you creating groups anymore KDW?

Aww.. how nice of you to pick me Bent Tree!

Sure I might be scrawny, short, and uncoordinated. But, um...
 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
So throwing out ideas...

Alphabetical order-- split top half and bottom half.

We also could assign every other member to a different group.

Or other similarly complex methods...

I think the idea of sending our second draft to the other group is a good idea. This would maximize the number of opinions that we each get.
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I'm glad you guys have decided to split into two smaller groups. I was beginning to have palpatations thinking about all the stories I would have to crit at once. Many of us are always willing to do early crits too, though.

Good idea about mixing it up for the second round, but at the same time, its also good that the first readers read again to see if the changes work, so there are pros and cons for both methods.

Well, how are we going to split? I have straws if anyone wants to pick?
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I'd suggest that the new participants and the experiecned participants be paired accordingly. And that at least two more experienced be in each group. But, what do I know?
 
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
quote:
Why aren't you creating groups anymore KDW?

Because they had a terrible attrition rate. Groups that are self-selected seem to work better than ones that I put together.

As for IAB's suggestion, I think it's a good one, except I'm not sure how to judge your experience. You all look good to me when I see your participation in the F&F areas.

How about if I think of a number between 1 and 50, and you each choose one, posting your choice here? Then I'll go by the numbers instead of the names in sorting you into two groups.
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
You know, it maybe wiser to just spilt into three groups now. Then if any one new wants to join we can just him/her into group one.
If its a number thing, I pick 3.141592653589793 or did you want us to use round numbers Kathy?
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
33

I'm in favor of rescrambling on the second drafts. I have a hard time giving crits on the same piece twice.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited April 14, 2008).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
I will round my number off to 3, or...

By the time we get everyone to pick a number it will be June 28th. I have a solution. It's a little complicated but you are all bright people. Here's the list.

WriterDan
InarticulateBabbler
Bent Tree
annepin
darklight
Kayti
skadder
snapper
Christopher
Patrick James
Cheyne
Jared Page

Let me reorganize it. This is the same order just listed from left to right.

WriterDan---------IB----------BentTree
Annepin-----------darklight---Kayti
Skadder-----------snapper-----Christopher
PatrickJames------Cheyne------JaredPage


You do crits for all the names that are horizontal and verticle from your own. So darklight does IB, snapper, Cheyne, annepin, and Kayti.
Christopher would do Bent Tree, Kayti, Jared Page, skadder, and snapper. Got it?
Everyone does five crits and gets five at the same time. If the order doesn't suit you feel free to reorganize it. I think it's fair the way it is and I think we should reshuffle for the second read as well.
What do you think?


[This message has been edited by snapper (edited April 14, 2008).]
 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
42

I think snappers suggestion would work. We could have our first drafts reviewed by the people in the same horizontal and vertical columns, and then our second drafts could be reviewed by the remaining six people who haven't looked at our story yet.

Although, that method could get confusing if we have new people join.

I don't think it matters very much how we split up. It sounds like the consensus is that we are going to be having different people reviewing our work for the second draft. This means regardless of how we split up, each story will be viewed by everyone or near everyone.

[This message has been edited by Jared Page (edited April 14, 2008).]
 


Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :
 
I hope that I am not screwing up someone's well thought out critting plans, but I was just handed a huge workload that will interfere with my secondary career (the one that is not paying the bills). So it is with deep regrets that I will be pulling myself from the game. Please don't use this to exclude me in later groups, i just thought i'd better pull out now rather than later.
 
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Snapper, if you look back at your post, it apparently appears different in the posting window. From here, the groups read as follows:


Group 1

Group 2

Group 3

The problem I see is that Group 3, as I understand it, is newcomer-heavy. Only KayTi has entered before. That would be okay if we alternate on round two to say:

Group 1

Group 2

Group 3

The Final Polish groups (Which may vary due to drop-outs and late-runners) would be:

Group 1

Group 2

Group 3

How about it?
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Damn. Cheyne posted WHILE I was posting. However, we should be able to for two more-even groups, and then just switch.
 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
I think your model works fine even with Chenye dropping out. the next person that wants in can get her spot. I move to follow IB's unless another snaffu hits.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Okay, so there are three sets of groupings in your post, IAB. Are we going to throw in another crit deadline, like June 21st, for the Final Polish round/groups? Or are we staying with two, and therefore only using the final two groupings (of the three) that you've listed? Sorry for my confusion. Just want to get things straight. We'll have to set up a good way to do this from the get-go for next quarter, eh?
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Hm... I'll leave all this up to you guys. Just someone post the final groupage, k? I'm cool with whatever.
 
Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Well YOU may be fine with whatever groups... but I don't want to be with Kayti, She's stupid!
I'm just joking. I don't even know Kayti. Whatever groups are made are fine with me.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I resemble that remark, PJ....you better watch your back.

(Have no fear, I'm the one who is always late for everything...that's how ye shall know me. She Who Is Always Late For Everything.)
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Hey, SWIALFE, I got your story and sent you mine.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
So, I've been struggling with my story for this quarter. Something about it just wasn't right, but I couldn't figure out what it was. Then, I had another idea for a different story (entire length, characters and all from beginning to end) come to me, and I had been considering leaving the first story for the new one.

So, yesterday I was wandering around on the internet, looking for the next great fantasy book (only found one new one, unfortunately) when I came across an interview that someone had done with Patrick Rothfuss, previous winner of WotF XVIII and writer of the amazing book The Name of the Wind. In it, he mentioned that when some people come up against a brick wall with a story, they drop it and pick up something else. He tactfully berated those types of people and said that you should hunker down and take the bull by the horns.

Last night, as I was sitting down to write (about 10:00, after the kids were finally in bed and asleep) I was still struggling with myself over whether to skip over this story and travel on to the next. Finally, I came to the conclusion that I just needed to follow Mr. Rothfuss's advice and hunker down. (Yes, I took notes for the new story! Not going to lose that one! )

After scanning over what I had previously writter, I chopped the last 3 1/2 pages (of the 9 1/2 that were complete) and started from there. By the time I had written half of my next page, the final piece to the puzzle of my main character fell into place and the story came rushing out. Nearly 1800 words in 90 minutes. (about 50% better than my running average!) I couldn't have been happier.

Thanks Pat!

Go WotF!

Write! Write! Write!


 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
I have to admit I'm pretty naive about this contests requirements.

What length should I be shooting for?

I have lots of short stories floating around that are around 2000 words. I'm a huge fan of stories which briefly explore a new idea, and that is what I tend to write.

Would my submission need to be longer than that?

I could either try to beef up one of my short stories, or I could try to make a short story version of the novel I'm working on.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
As long as it's less than 17k words (hard limit) I don't think they care. It just has to be a story. I've seen a few winning stories be quite short. So, it's really up to you. Just be sure to get your speculative element in there early. That's a killer for a lot of entries.
 
Posted by Rheniel (Member # 7888) on :
 
Is there room for one more?
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I'm happy to take crits, if anyone in my group is ready.

Edited to add:

Am I right in thinking, then, that the first round of crits for me are:

Group 2


IB
darklight
snapper
Cheyne

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited April 19, 2008).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Actually darklight,

The first round readings have been rearranged. IB has stacked the deck... err I mean, has fairly arranged the reviews so that everyone will get a crit done by a new and veteran contest participators alike. Here is how the first round readers schedule is set up.

Group 1


IB
Jared Page
annepin
Christopher

Group 2


Skadder
Patrick James
darklight
BentTree

Group 3


snapper
KayTi
WriterDan
Cheyne


 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Thanks, snapper, that's cleared things up for me.

So, Skadder, Patrick James, and BentTree, feel free to send over anything you have when you've done. If any of you are up for an early crit let me know. I should have the thing read through and tidied up in the next couple of days.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Rheniel, why don't you take Cheyne's spot?


Group 1
IB
Jared Page
annepin
Christopher

Group 2
Skadder
Patrick James
darklight
BentTree

Group 3
snapper
KayTi
WriterDan
Rheniel

Interesting perspective, WriterDan. I'm sort of waffling between rewriting my old piece completely and submitting this new one I'm working on. I feel I have a big lesson to learn in the power of rewriting, which makes me think I should hunker down and rework my old piece. On the other hand, I love starting new things.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited April 19, 2008).]
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Er, Cheyne does want out, right? I initially glossed over this sentence, which now confuses me on your intent:

quote:
Please don't use this to exclude me in later groups, i just thought i'd better pull out now rather than later.

If I'm understanding correctly you want the ability to join in at a later time? That's fine by me.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Okay, sent my story out. I hope I sent it to the right group. If you didn't get it please let me know. Thanks in advance for your comments.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited April 19, 2008).]
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Skadder
Patrick James
darklight

I am set to recieve, but nowhere near finished on my draft. There is no need to fear. I am charging along on it.
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Yes she did want out, Anne.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Rofl at snapper. "stacked the deck..." That was killer. Okay, so we're going with this setup. Confusion lost. And that's a good thing.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Ok, so I have draft one of this monstrosity finished and will be sending it out to Bent Tree shortly. If you don't receive, give me a nudge. Skadder and Patrick James, I'll send it over at the specified date, unless you say otherwise and accept early critiques.

As I've said before, I'm ready to take critiques now. In fact, I'll take a look at anyone's if you're done; if it doesn't mess things up. Got too much time on my hands now I'm finished.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
You should start a new story then darklight.

For anyone in my sub-group that is interested, I'll accept early crits. Up for it any time.
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I'm looking at closer to the 15th of May for my first draft. It took some time to gel, and it's more important that I tell this story than I make it into the quarter. This story needs to be told.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
You're right, WriterDan, there's a story my son has wanted me to write for a while. It's his idea but he wants me to write it. He asked me the other day when I would start. Well, here's the chance.
 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
I will have mine done by the 7th, probably sooner. Rhienel, Kayti and WD send yours whenever its ready. Send it even if you're stuck, maybe I can help.
 
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
 
We should, within our sub-groups, vote on which story within each sub-group was best. The winning stories can then be circulated for final polishing by the other winning authors--so giving the best stories the best chance.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
snapper, I might take you up on that. I have about 2500 words written, and I only just got the idea (asked a non-writing friend who had a perfect idea) for what the premise of the rest should be. But now I have to WRITE the rest. I think the first 2500 words are actually in OK shape, OK enough to send out. I may do so (can you tell I haven't quite decided? LOL)

 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
quote:
We should, within our sub-groups, vote on which story within each sub-group was best. The winning stories can then be circulated for final polishing by the other winning authors--so giving the best stories the best chance.

Meh. Count me out for this. I'd rather leave it to the WotF judges to sort us.

I will, however, leave myself open to any crits outside my group. I'd like to give equal support to each participant of the group.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited April 24, 2008).]
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I'm with Anne on this. This isn't a competition, it's a workshop to get our submissions good enough for a major competition. However, I do feel it's perfectly reasonable--if you feel you have the time--to let an author know you'd be willing to critique on the polished draft, too. Instead of making it a competition, you're just offering assistance to a couple of extra people. Obviously, you are going to read some stories that you don't like, but instead of sounding insulting, you just don't offer to critique another time.

Besides, I'd like to see this prove helpful to everyone, and get even the novices an Honorable Mention.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I don't agree with the electing the best story either. It isn't a bad idea to pull together to make the best story great, but I don't feel it is in the best interest of our group. Friendly competition is one thing, but establishing a hierarchy in this group could cause hurt feelers.

If you believe in your story enough, you will find the help you need to make it shine. I have seen no lack of those willing help in this group.

I unfortunately don't think I will have a submission for this quarter. I accidentally erased 7k of my draft. I feel good about this story and do not want to rush it. I can wait until next quarter and turn in something I believe in.

I will still be happy to crit my group and any one else in the cumulative group.
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Sorry to hear that BentTree. So, am I the only person finished? I'm itching to do some critiques. If BT is out, the that leaves only two to critique in my group.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Man! That sucks, BentTree. Lesson to everyone: Backup! Backup! Backup! Dang. Well, we'll be here for you next quarter. This'll let you really tell the story this time. Now that you've been through all that once, you can get to the guts of it and make it even better than the first time. Now get back to it!
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Ah, and I'm going to echo what annepin, IAB, and BentTree said about pre-judging our stories. This contest is really all about new authors. We shouldn't push the best of the group, but raise everyone. Sorry, skadder.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Bent Tree! Sorry to hear that. That really sucks. I use either Scrivener (for Mac) or Google Docs; both of these save automatically as you type (I think Google Docs you might have to do an initial save).

Darklight, I'm finished with my first draft, though I have a few changes I want to make. Though you aren't in my group would you be interested in swapping?
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
annepin, yes, the swap sounds great. Send when you've finished those changes and I'll send mine in return.
 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Hey,

I believe that BT said he would be willing to live up to his commitment to review others in his group. Knowing him, I'm sure he'll still get something written before the June 30'th.

Go ahead and send it my way, KayTi. I'll give it a look.
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
I know how that is Bent Tree(when you erase your work). I back up all my files now, on cd also, since I have had my computer crash recently. Had to have the hard drive 'reset', if it had to be 'replaced'... well I might just have given up writing. I have so much work saved on it.
I echoe WriterDan, Get back on that horse. Rewrite that story, no doubt you'll make it better the second time.
And good luck.

As to this voting idea, I dont much care whether we do or don't but I do believe IB stated it well:

quote:
This isn't a competition, it's a workshop to get our submissions good enough for a major competition.

[This message has been edited by Patrick James (edited April 25, 2008).]
 


Posted by Cheyne (Member # 7710) on :
 
Annepin et al
Just to clear up any confusion:
Cheyne is not in for this quarter.

Too much work at work. I have two months off in the summer (can you guess what I do for a living) so I will jump back in for the next quarter. I guess that my first message was a little hard to parse.
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
How many guesses do I get?

 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
As far as skadders idea,

I wouldn't mine, after we have sent our submissions out, we all give our opinion on which one has the best shot at winning. It would be harmless and would be interesting on how well the ones picked do.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I might pull off a recovery. I am dilligently redrafting. I have about 3k on a draft that will more than likely end up at 12-15k. We will see. I am shooting for the first May 7th deadline. Might be a few days late.

Darklight, I hope to have your piece looked over by tomorrow night. As of yet it is the only submission I have recieved.

Cross your fingers for me guys. Mine are busy typing, and I won't let up until I'm done.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Way to go, BentTree! I knew you could do it.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I'm glad to hear it BentTree, and no rush with the critique.
 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Hey Everybody!

The seventh is nearly here. I got mine done, and you? Are you ready, WriterDan, kayTi, and Rheinel? Let me know.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
I'm trying to get it done. About 70% right now. Am planning on it still. Have to work on my Heinlein entry too. Eeek. Today went by WAY too fast. Will send it out as soon as I can.
 
Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
I don't think I will have mine ready on time--or maybe at all.
Feel free to send yours to me, I will live up to my agreement to critique them.

Edited to add the names of the people in my group.
Skadder
Bent Tree
Darklight

[This message has been edited by Patrick James (edited May 04, 2008).]
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I am ticking along at a snails pace. Hopefully that means quality. From my group, haven't heard from Skadder. Pat J if you decide to pursue, I will keep my box open even down to the last minute it if it helps you get a sub in. If you are up to it that is. I had an accident, I am trying to recover from. I am much in the same boat as you. Keep at it!

Skadder feel free to send whenever. I got and returned DL so if Patrick is out that leaves you. I might be a few days late, unless prose flows from my fingers like the blue and white ribbons of magic.
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Don't feel bad, Bent Tree, I have about two-thirds written--before fleshing out the parts that are just bare-bones for progression.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Hunkered down and blasted off the last part of my entry Saturday night. So, the first draft is done! Sending out to my group today. Any sent to me probably won't get done for a little bit. This next week is really going to be busy for me. Will get them done as soon as I can though. Luck, everyone!
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Dang, I don't know if I'm going to have mine ready in time either. Those in my group who are done, send me yours (if you haven't yet). If I don't make it, I might just have the other group give me a general read-over instead of a line edit. I'm going to bust all day tomorrow--I have the day off-and see how far I get. Us, writers, working our tails off. You gotta love it.
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Jared, and Annie. Got your stories. Thanks. I didn't finish mine. I'll bust on it again tomorrow. If you don't mind, I'll send it to you Friday or Saturday. If that is too late for you, not problem, let me know.

Oh, something funny. Both you two sent me the e-mails without the stories attached, and both of you then sent a second e-mail that said, "oh, sorry, I guess I should attach the story." I did the same thing last quarter to someone. I don't know what that means: we're all quirky/funny writers. Anyway...

I'm looking forward to reading your stuff.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
quote:
Both you two sent me the e-mails without the stories attached

I am embarrassed to say, that is my calling card. I am notorious for failing to attach. One day I will do it with a submission, and bang my head on the wall for days

To my group. I am making headway. I have four scenes of seven, so I will probably have a draft by Saturday. Skadder I haven't heard from you. Send yours when you are ready. Otherwise there are only two of us in our group which leave me and DL with a one on one draft exchange.


 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I'm still in a holding pattern on mine until I get the Heinlein and Luna stories through another draft.

I am still in, though. I won't bail on this contest this quarter.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Christopher, no problem. Send me yours whenever it's done.

Darklight, I returned yours--did you get it? I know our email has been wacky in the past. I got my story back from you--thanks for the crit!
 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
That's pretty funny

No problem Chris.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Everybody wish me a happy birthday. I need the love.
 
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Happy Birthday!
 
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Happy birthday!!!

mine is in two days.


 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Hey, Happy Birthday to you!

Annepin, I got your critique, thanks very much!

I will send out my story to Skadder and Patrick James (congrats by the way!) tonight. Waiting for Skadder's story. Patrick, if you get one done, sent it over.
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Happy birthday to WriterDan and Bent Tree!(in the event that I don't remember in two days time.)
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Aw... happy birthday, you two!
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Happy Birthday to BentTree! Celebrate! Ha ha!
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Happy B-Day guys.

Hey, I just got the story done. I sent it out to my group: IB, Anne, and Jared.

P.S. Oh, as I mentioned in the e-mail, I still need a title for the story--anything is better than what I have. Any and all suggestions for a title. Hit me with 'em. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited May 09, 2008).]
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Just finished my draft*Sigh*

Darklight, it is in the mail. If there are any volunteers to look over Mine and Darklight's pieces, I would appreciate the extra eyes. There are only the two of us so far as I can tell in our group.



 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Happy Birthday Bent Tree. I hope everything's okay. Congratulations on getting a new version of the first draft in.

Once I've finished min--looking like it'll be soon, and I critique the others in my group, I'll gives yours a read-through. Send it any time, but give me a few days to respond.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited May 13, 2008).]
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
BentTree, I'd be happy to look at it! Send it over whenever you like.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
BentTree, I'd be happy to look at it! Send it over whenever you like.

Edited to add: see my sincerity? I double posted!

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited May 13, 2008).]
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I'm almost done with my extremely rough draft. By tonight, it should be finished. Then I'm going to focus on those that sent me theirs.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I'm going to second what Bent Tree said. Another critique of mine would be wonderful if there's a volunteer, and as I'm about half way through Bent Tree's story and should have it done in a couple of days, I'm happy to crit another story or two if anyone would like another opinion.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Rheniel? Has anyone heard from Rheniel? I've traded stories with snapper, and know that KayTi has one on the way, but haven't seen hide nor hair from Rheniel. Still in?
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I was thinking, just an idea, but maybe we should have a head count and see who's still in this quarter, so we can work out the grouping for the next round of critiques.

And I've finished the critique of Bent Tree's story (should have it back in the post tomorrow) so any stories?
 


Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
I think darklight is right. A head count sounds like a good idea. If you're not in with a story of your own, but are still willing to read that's fine too.

Sounding off....I'm in for all rounds.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
headcount? huh... *Raises head from slobbery puddle on desk*

... here.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
How about something like this? Add your name to the list if you're still willing to crit and/ or want something critted:

Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin

 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
I'm willing to critique, but I have nothing to offer needing criticism.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Good idea all. Two lists then, I think; along with the understanding that if you want your story critted, you *must* crit other's stories.

---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin


---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero


Question: How long do we wait with these new lists up before reorganizing critique groups?
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Well, Jared Page sent me his, but hasn't yet responded to this thread. I think he actually sent it to me like two or three days ago. So, I'd say he counts as in--at least as far as I'm concerned.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin
KayTi *but doesn't have hers ready for crits yet. Promises to have a clean draft with few typos, almost no unnecesary adverbs, and limited other early draft pitfalls since she's so late w/draft.

---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero


 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
I already entered a story for this quarter a month ago, a piece that I had received help with some time back. So I guess I’m in. I can help crit if you like.

Tracy

 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Hey Everyone! and ARRRGGGHHH! (I'm taking full advantage of my status)

I have had a habit of overextending myself but I am making a plan. I need to get two stories ready for two seperate contest that have a deadline for the end of this month but the next I am reserving for WotF. I plan on helping anyone that wants it for the next quarter, SOOOO...
I will read and review anyones story that wants it after May 31st.

---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin
KayTi
Snapper
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
My first draft is done. I'm giving it a quick run-through for inconsistancies anmd glaring spelling issues. Then I'll send it out to my group (annepin, Christoper, Jared Page) and anyone else who's willing.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I'll read IB but with a busy weekend ahead, I probably wont get to it until monday.
 
Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :
 
Is this for the next quarter? Or is this for the one that is currently being voted on? I'm confused as to which group this is. And I'm also wondering how much time is left? I would love to join in, if there was enough time to get sleep while also finishing the story.

Can anyone help? lol
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I say you should just jump in, add your self to the list, and start cranking out a draft.
 
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
This group is for Q3. The results now coming out are for Q2. Jump in, if you want.
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero
tnwilz
 
Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :
 
Oh ok, then ya, I'll jump in! With all the news about placing in the WOTF I was confused about this forum lol. Thank you for the clarification and the encouragement (both are equally needed).

---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin
KayTi
Snapper
JustInProse

---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero
tnwilz

---------------------
Further Information

Are we getting groups together or are we all just sending our drafts to everyone? I don't have a draft ready, but my days aren't very busy with school being over. I'm going to get working on a first draft. (By KayTi's post I'm guessing the first drafts are already done for most?)

Also, What are the dates we are looking at for the group? Is this more formal, or informal?

Thanks for the help. If I become annoying, type in /squelch JustInProse and I will speak in Haiku word posts.
(Could be fun either way!)
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Yo Justin! Good to read a friendly nametag.

Deadlines for this quarter's crits are as follows:

May 7th: First drafts out for high-level crits (plot, character arc, etc.)

June 7th: Second drafts out for low-level crits and line edits

June 30th: Mail-in deadline for Q03

I have already flubbed the first deadline(because of work and another project *wink*), but nobody has tossed me off the boat, so I am assumeing that the dealines are informal to a certain extent.

---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin
KayTi
Snapper
JustInProse

---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero
tnwilz
Patrick James(also hoping to finish his draft sometime this century)

 


Posted by pilot27407 (Member # 7992) on :
 
How do I participate, or am I too late?


 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
Write a first draft of a story fitting the WotF guidelines, and let everyone know you're in. Though you are not in time for the first due-date, some of us might be able to do an extensive critique to help you get ready for the second (or polish) critique.

Welcome and Good Luck.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Formality: Really, we try to stay as formal as possible in this group and get our stories out for the critiquing deadlines as set up each quarter. However, if you get hammered and can't make a deadline, you'll find that most people here are pretty forgiving on that front and will help out regardless. The WotF contest is all about helping new authors break into the market, and that is really what we try to keep in mind in this group. That being said: GET WRITING AND PUMP OUT THE DRAFTS!!!

Deadlines: So, our next upcoming deadline for critiquing is June 7th. I'm thinking that we'll just keep the new list (of "double duty" and "available to critique") open until like the 6th. Then we can split the people up into groups that day and have a crazy-email day for swapping on the 7th. Sound okay to everyone? Mostly looking for dissenters and reasoning here.

Luck all.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I agree with Dan. We can have a show of hands on the sixth and distribute prompt well edited drafts on the seventh, accordingly.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I'm LMAO at the formality point WriterDan makes. Speak for yourself, buster. I've never met an interim deadline I couldn't blow.

But don't let my miserable excuse for writing time (and current quandry about subject matter for story...considering a complete jettison of my 3k WIP and starting from scratch on a whole new concept. Sigh.) be your guide. I like your plan just fine. (In spite of my likely inability to keep to it.)

To paraphrase a family expression - I'll get what I get and I won't throw a fit if I'm late to the party.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
My kids say that all the time. "You get what you get..."

Like I said, we're pretty forgiving. And love to have you around KayTi.
 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
I'm very sorry for being late with my critiques. I just moved into a new apartment(from college housing into the real world).

They've also been short staffed where I work so I've been working double shifts. Thankfully, things should be less stressful now. I will be getting back to everyone who sent me a story this week.
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
quote:
When you're just starting out, you have to learn to connect with your subconcious which is where the stories come from. Writing every day helps improve that access.

KD wentworth from WOTF forum.
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
quote:
Success as a writer involves both talent and drive. You can't make it without both. The writers with the best imaginations are the ones with the best chance for a career, but the drive to hone your skills and keep submitting your work in the face of rejection is crucial. I have belonged to a writer's group for almost twenty years now and in that time I have seen far more writers without enough drive than without enough talent.

KD Wentworth from the WOTF forum
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
IB, did you get my crit? I sent it off at the beginning of the week. I think I got everyone that's sent me something... if anyone has sent me something and haven't heard back, give me a poke.
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
quote:
Most of the time you won't be able to tell how good any of your stories are until someone else reads them. I find sharing new pieces with someone who reads for me most helpful, rather than sharing with a writing group, although I still belong to one. Getting a reader's feedback helps you see how entertaining the story is (or is not), whether it makes sense all the way through, whether the ideas in your head made it all the way to the page.

KD Wentworth from WOTF forum
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
quote:
As other folks are saying, it will never be perfect. Algis Budrys, the original Coordinating Judge, taught that the story is not the same thing as the words. The story is inside your head and it is perfect. The words are the imprecise vehicle we use to try to communicate it to the reader. You want to do your best with the words, but don't confuse the story with the words. And remember, readers generally read for the element of story, not beautiful prose (yes, I know there are exceptions!), so endlessly polishing your prose won't necessarily garner you more sales. The most beautifully written story with no heart will not sell.

KD Wentworth from WOTF forum.
 


Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
True dat above. I've messed up hundreds of stories just by trying to write them down.
 
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
"Above" seems to have moved back a page...
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Right, so you've probably guessed I'm not very good at just sitting on my stories. I've revised (about ten tmes!) and have a story I'm happy with for the next round of critiques. So, if any one is ready to accept a story, that would great.

It goes without saying, I'm always ready to accept stories from other members of the group, so if you have anything, rough or polished, you want to fire my way, please do.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
You could resend to me. Also let me know what kind of crit you want--anything goes? Grammar and small things only?

Also, IB, did you get my crit back?
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
annepin, thank you very much, I will do that. It'll be on the way some time tonight.
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
I am open to crit for anyone.
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
quote:
A quick start is always good, especially if you can work in mention of your science fictional or fantasy element. What I didn't realize, before I started reading entries for the Contest, is that we (and the major magazines) get many "untargeted" submissions. Those are stories that are not sf or fantasy and do not fit our guidelines. People see a free contest and just send something in without bothering to see if what they've written is right for us. You want to convince the editor that this is not one of those stories. Later, after you've made a name for yourself, you can take longer to set things up but in the beginning you have to grab the editor's interest quickly.

KD Wentworth from WOTF forum.
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
quote:
As for originality, that is the key element we're looking for. You can't stray so far that the reader won't know what you're talking about but the people with the best imaginations are the ones who break in and have careers.

Don't count on the title to sell your story. Titles can be misleading and I hardly pay any attention to them until after I've finished reading the piece.

Make the prose as smooth as you can, but don't get caught up in endlessly rewriting. It is entirely possible to rewrite the life out of the piece. The story is the most important element. Readers read for story, not elegantly constructed words.


KD Wentworth from WOTF forum.

 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Hi Tracy, I might just send my story over to you when I get back from work! Be warned though, there's a lot of words!
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
I love words, send away.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Well, I can't believe it's June already, and there's only a few weeks to go until the deadline! Where does the time go?

How are you all doing?

I would say mine's going well, but I'm waiting for a couple of crits, so don't want to assume to much until they're back.

Annepin and Tracy, did you both get my story? If not, let me know.

Good luck to all getting those stories polished.
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
And are we going to split into groups again for the round of critiques coming up at the end of the week?
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I did! I should be able to get my crit back to you by the end of today (PST).
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Yeah, we're going to split groups up on Friday the 6th, and then people can send out their stories this weekend. So, anyone that's not on the new list that wants to be, put it on there. Here's a reminder for where we are currently sitting:

---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin
KayTi
Snapper
JustInProse

---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero
tnwilz
Patrick James(also hoping to finish his draft sometime this century) <-- Getting close on this one Patrick?

Hope this is the most recent one. It looked like it was, but if I goofed it, I apologize ahead of time. Looking forward to the next swap.

Also, I was thinking that the crits this time around can really be anything. If they need a high-level crit (plot, character) give it to em. Don't limit constructive criticism. That should be what we're all about here. Later all.

Dan
 


Posted by Jared Page (Member # 7878) on :
 
As of today, I've given everyone a critique who sent me a story. If you didn't recieve one tell me. Sorry for being late. Between moving and working double shifts at work I've had no time. I'm not going to have my second draft ready on time. But, I am willing to critique.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Hey. So, snapper had a genius idea and I thought I'd run it by everyone in the group, see what you think.

Apparently he turned his entry in for this quarter early (as in, it's already in despite the fact that the deadline is almost four weeks away). His reasoning is that Kathy probably gets rushed and fatigued with the chaos of all the stories at the very end of each quarter. As such, she would have much less time/patience for those stories that come in at the bitter end.

Thus, I'd suggest shifting our deadlines/mail-in date accordingly. The only way to do this is to either have those in the group go through one very short quarter (two months, instead of three) or skip a month. At least that I can easily see. I'd rather not skip any moths, so what I'd suggest for the next two quarters is this:

-----------------
2008 Q04 details:
-----------------
Now: Begin writing story entries for Q04
July 1st: 2008 Q04 start
July 14th/(21st?): First crit deadline for Q04
August 7th/(14th?): Second crit deadline for Q04
August 30th: Mail in all entries from group for Q04
September 30th: Official mail-in deadline for Q04

-----------------
2009 Q01 details:
-----------------
September 1st: Begin writing story entries for 2009 Q01
October 1st: 2009 Q01 start
October 7th: First crit deadline for Q01
November 7th: Second crit deadline for Q01
November 30th: Mail in all entries for Q01
December 31st: Official mail-in deadline for Q01

Hope this schedule makes sense. In essence, I'm shifting everything up a month. I seriously think that snapper has something here. At this point the new schedule is just a suggestion. I know that this will put pressure on us all next quarter, but I really think that it will give our entries a better chance of getting further in the contest if we make the time shift.

It would also set things up so that we don't have the "final polish and mail-in" deadline right between Christmas and New Year's any more. Just a writing deadline for the following Jan 7th. For me, that point alone makes it worth all the rush for one quarter.

What say ye?
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I'm happy to carry on as we were before. I sent my last entry in, in the last few days before the end of the quarter, and I got an Honerable Mention, so I don't agree with snapper, sorry! In fact, I thought the opposite. I'm sure Kathy is professional enough not to let any lack of time or patience cloud her judgement. I'll probably still send in at the end, even if we had earlier crits, and there's the time factor too for writing and critiquing.

Anyhow, that's my thoughts.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Moving the deadline up a month doesn't really make much of a difference to me. I'll go with whatever the group consensus is. Just let me know!
 
Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
I think the idea has merit and makes sense, incidentally work has me a bit too busy to comply with the schedule.
missing a month or a quarter might be enivitable for me.
 
Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Somehow I double posted.

Anyway, my story is finished, its terible but... I'm in!

---------------------
Double Duty
---------------------
Inarticulate Babbler
WriterDan
darklight
Christopher
Bent Tree
Annepin
KayTi
Snapper
JustInProse
Patrick James

---------------------
Willing to crit
---------------------
Zero
tnwilz

[This message has been edited by Patrick James (edited June 03, 2008).]
 


Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :
 
I'm ok with skipping a month, more set on getting it done than getting it in this quarter.

My piece isn't coming along easily either, so who knows, might help to have a bit extra time...(mostly because I missed the first edit and I'm still new at this)
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Congrats to you darklight and I can understand why you would disagree, but I believe my theory has merit.
Joni said at the beginning of this quarter how they got swamped at the last minute by entries. The HM honors were about half compared to the quarter before. Unfortunately I didn't have time to send my entry off before my boss called and said I needed to leave right away. I hope I am back in time to send it off.

[This message has been edited by snapper (edited June 03, 2008).]
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I can see the logic in the proposed idea. Another element to consider is that if we are regular submiting to the contest, as most of us are, as a group it will reflect on professionalism. Having a crisp, clean, and well-edited manuscript early in the submission period can only reflect positively on the entrant. I'm in even if it ends up being a new WOTF faction
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Looks like I'm the only one that doesn't quite agree with this idea. Not sure I'm gonna have time to finish this quarter's entry and get another ready for critique by July 14th, but I'll try.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited June 04, 2008).]
 


Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
I like the idea of the new schedule, but mainly because I'm itching to get something written for this contest. I'll get started on my WOTF story just in case.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Nice concept, but we'll see. I'm a down to the wire kind of gal.

I don't agree that it likely has influence, though I really don't see any harm in submitting early to a contest like this. I read slush for Flash Fiction Online, and sometimes I read one story, sometimes ten or more in a sitting. There is really no difference in when I find a story to pass along, it's just as often the last in a batch of 10 or the first, or the solo, or none at all, LOL. A good story is a good story and stands out no matter what, IMHO. But, like I said, there's no harm to submitting early if you're able.

Darklight - we'll be late sub buddies if it happens. Truthfully with the #s of us submitting from here, it would not be a bad thing to have more than one group, and for those groups to have different timing.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Maybe that would be a good way to split the group once on a large scale, KayTi. Have two separate schedules: one that turns in manuscripts to the contest a month early, and a second that goes right to the end. We can pull a practice run this next quarter. Have two "group discussions" for Q04 inside of Hatrack: "WotF 2008 Q04 Early Submission" & "WotF 2008 Q04 On-Time Submission", or something to that effect. I'll make the new post for the early submission group of next quarter now and get things started. See how this all turns out. Can't hurt to try.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
It seems as if we're right on the cusp of splitting into three groups. Ten people with stories, two more willing to critique only. So, I think our best option would be to do two groups of six each (five stories per group with five crits for each story) and have crits due back in no more than ten days. That's four critiques for double-dutys (five for only-critting), and still leaves almost two weeks afterwards for final edits. If anyone thinks that this is a bad idea and that we should go to three groups, now is the time to speak up. I'm more prone to just move on things because I get so frustrated with decision-by-committee delays.

Here's my suggestion for splitting the group:

Group 1
IB
Christopher
Darklight
Snapper
WriterDan
Zero(crit only)

Group 2
Annepin
Patrick James
Bent Tree
KayTi
JustInProse
Tnwilz(crit only)

I just went down our list for first round crit groups and alternated people as their name came up. JustInProse was added to the end as he wasn't part of the first round.

Just as a thought, I think that next quarter it would be a good idea for us to not only have a participation list like this, but to also have a reasonably accurate accounting of how long each story is (eg: 6k words). That way we can try to split up the groups to spread the workload as well.

I also understand that four/five critiques might be a bit much for some people to handle. To spread the crits out as best they can, I'd suggest that you critique in the order that you're listed, working your way down. So, for me (WriterDan, Group 1) I'd do critiques in this order:
IB
Christopher
Darklight
Snapper
That way, if I don't get to Snapper (which I will Snapper, I promise ), there's less of a chance that someone else will miss him too. Then again, I could just be over-analyzing this bit (I tend to do that quite often) and you'll all tell me to go jump in a lake. Ah well.

Happy send-offs everyone. Another quarter is coming quickly to a close.

Edited: Group lists were screwey the first time. Now fixed.

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited June 06, 2008).]
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
The groups suit me. I'm in, and ready to accept stories for critting.
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
The plan sounds good to me, Dan.

I'll send my story out to my group sometime tonight.

You guys send me your stories whenever...

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited June 07, 2008).]
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I've received, critiqued and returned Christopher's story, and sent him mine. Will send out mine to other members of my group later. Waiting for more stories to arrive.

Edited to add: I will critique on a first come, first served basis. Whoever sends me a story next, will get a critique next. It's a lovely rainy Saturday morning here, so got lots of time now and until Wednesday, so get sending those stories!

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited June 07, 2008).]
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Sent mine out to the group. Hope all the email addresses that Hatrack has are current. At home, and I don't have Outlook set up here. Hope to hear from the rest of you soon. Later.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
No one's sending stuff in my group? Got only one, from Patrick James. I'm thinking I won't send my out for a crit again--quite frankly, I'm sick of it and just want to hurry it out the door and let it do as it will. But I'm ready and willing to read other people's!
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Hey Annepin,

I got a few swaps in my group. Haven't heard anything from Zero though, and IB's been off the map for a while now. Have you heard from him? If you're looking for something to read, I'll send you mine. Always love the input I get from you. Need to do some good editing on it soon though. Deadline is coming quickly. I'd be interested in reading your entry even if you don't want a crit. Later.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I am set to recieve, but I am at a point where I don't want to look at mine again.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Okay, WriterDan, got your story and will aim for a quick turnaround!
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
All my crits are finished and sent out. I haven't heard from a few of you...hope you got 'em. Good stories, guys. Thanks for letting me read them. Any needed qualifications/questions, get back to me.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Christopher, yes, I recieved your critique, thank you very much Also have critiqued and got critiuqes from WriterDan and Snapper. Thanks to all you guys, you're great. IB, still here if you want a critique when you're ready.

Been avoiding my piece this week, but I know I'll have to get to it soon to make those final changes, else I'll be sending it in next quarter!


 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Five days left! Hope everyone is either close or finished! Looking forward to seeing lots of awards announcements here over the coming weeks.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Mine finally went in the post this afternoon. Thank God it's gone!

Onto the next one...
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I'm so close! But I now have technical problems--my printer died! I'm trying to figure out other options. Another reason not to wait to the last minute, I guess.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
And mine's off! Yay, my first submission!
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Congrats you two.

Just got through my third draft late last night (this morning?). I think I probably have another line edit or two in me before it goes out. Man, it's crunch time. And for some reason, I'm just not feeling the pressure that I have in quarters past. Finally getting used to this submission thing, I guess.
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
when do they start announcing?
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
quote:
when do they start announcing?

As I understand it, Kathy Wentworth has already got a stack to send back but I haven't heard that anyone has received their ms back.

I suspect if she hasn't sent the first batch back yet then she will be soon.

Then again this is my first submission so I'm not really an expert on the flow just yet.

Anthony
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
that would be the "thanks, but don't quit your day job" pile?
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
quote:
that would be the "thanks, but don't quit your day job" pile?

Hehe... well... I don't want to speak for anyone but I believe we are all capable of writing garbage. Fortunately, we here at Hatrack are lucky enough to have a support group to tell us when it's garbage.

It certainly doesn't bode well for the particular story if it is in that pile.

Anthony
 


Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Another waitin' till the last moment tale:

Today, Sunday, the power went out in my neighborhood. Too many people running their air-conditioners or something. A transformer blew and caused circuits to blow all over the place. And I hadn't printed my story yet! This is bad because I work a twelve hour shift tomorrow, starting at seven a.m, and I can't print it there. So, I went to my father-in-law's b-day party, as planned, and crossed my fingers. Got back home, power was on. Thank you. Just printed it off and wife will mail it in the morning. You know what? I think I like waiting until the last moment. It gets my blood flowing.

Good luck to everyone. I'm looking forward to reading your new stories next quarter.

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited June 30, 2008).]
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
And it's off! I was still a freak about it. Got all jittery as I was checking off the list of things I had to do to make it "right". Maybe I'm not as used to submitting as I thought. Anyhow, I hope that everyone else that gets their submissions mailed off today (on-time) will post here and let us know. It seems like a lot of people dropped out at the last minute. Hope that's not the case, but that they only stayed in their closets to the bitter end to get their stories done. Congratulations everyone! Time to start the next story! Later.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Reading the last few posts in this thread, I'm glad I got mine printed off when I did. My printer started acting oddly on Saturday, and hence, could not have gotten anything printed! In fact, both my entries into this competition have now gone off on the 26th - odd coincidence.

WriterDan, I'm right there with you with the list of things to make it right. I have an odd feeling though, I might have edited the life out of mine!

Good luck to all that have managed to get a story in the post on time
 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
My name isn't "down to the wire girl" for nothing. The story is printed (a second time, curse those 1.25" margins my word processor defaults to!) and in an envelope, waiting for my next errand outing so I can hit the post office. Nothing like getting it stamped just before 5 PM. It's a big ol pile of ... you know, but hey - it's going, it's fine, I'm happy.

Meanwhile, best wishes to everyone who ended up entering. I apologize for not being able to critique. I will be in better shape for the next quarter (though still down to the wire) when my kiddos are back in school.
 


Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
I sent mine out... twice, in fact. The first time was this morning before work. At about three today I got to thinking and realized I probably didn't have enough postage to send it cross country... only had two stamps. So, I printed out a second copy, did another SASE and took it to the post office myself. $4.80 later and the version that'll get there was off!

Good luck to everyone else.

[This message has been edited by cklabyrinth (edited June 30, 2008).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
I am so disappointed. My story has been ready for a month. I came home a few days ago and got it ready for the mail. Just needed a stop at the post office to put some stamps on. My little lady said she would take care of it for me.
it was still sitting on my desk when I came home from work.
 
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Oh, no! Sorry to hear that Snapper. Try sending it to a Pro Market. Since you have it in an envelope already... well, you know what I mean. Turn lemons into lemonaide. Your piece seemed to be the style Analog goes for. Try them...really.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Email Joni, snapper. I once asked her about late submissions and she told me that I could send it in late with special instructions. See what she says. It can't hurt.
 
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I'm out. But, Good Luck to all who made it.

 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
What do you mean, IAB? You didn't send one or you got notified already? email or by writing?
 
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I didn't get the rewrite done--in fact, ot grew on me, so that now I think it's heading for novel-length. I'm still chasing the end.

 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
LOL, IB - that's what my other supposed short story project is doing to me right now. These darn stories just torture me! Ah, well, it's all part of the writer's mystique. I get it so much better now.
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
anybody hear anything yet? I see the forum is back up.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
I haven't even had my e-mail confirming they got my submission yet. It took over two weeks last quater so expecting it some time around the weekend.
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
It's been well over a month since I submitted mine and I still haven't received a confirmation. I hope it made it through properly.

I know the sad passing of Algis Burdrys threw the schedule into disorder. I suspect that things are just running a bit behind.

Have they even chosen a winner from last quarter yet? I haven't heard.

Anthony



 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
No confirmation for me either.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Yep, no confirmation yet for me, either. I thought I remember reading it could take them up to 4 weeks to send confirmation, but now I can't find that information so maybe it was for another contest. Or someone's speculation. Or empirical evidence.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Here to echo the consensus. I sent mine in on the last possible day. So, I'll probably get my confirmation last. If anyone gets one, post something so that we'll all know to look for our own. I haven't seen anything recently on the WotF blog, about winners or anything else. So, everything's kind of up in the air right now. Hope everyone is working on their next entry. Later.
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
Kathy Wentworth sent back a couple boxes of manuscripts today. I think she sends them back to Joni Labaqui who then mails them back to us (if you included a SASE that is.)

I hope none of us were in that box.

Anthony
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
Anthony, how do you find out this stuff? There's nothing on the forum or the blog about it.

[This message has been edited by debhoag (edited July 10, 2008).]
 


Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
Kathy posts semi-regular updates in the newsgroup on SFF.

The group name is sff.writing.writersofthefuture, I think you can read it via most news servers but I think you can only post if you are a member of SFF.

Anthony
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
thanks, I'll check it out!
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
I finally received my entry confirmation at 3AM this morning.

Woot!

Anthony
 


Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Sent mine out the last possible day(like others, lol) and just recieved confirmation that it arrived(and didnt receive a "sorry your story sucks" on its heels).
(actually I dont know if they send those sort of letters this is only the second time I have entered. Still happy i didnt get one.)

Anyway, good luck all!
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Hm... It seems they are responding in reverse chronology. That is, if you sent it early, it's on the bottom of the stack. I sent mine in a five days before the deadline and still have received no word.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I sent mine on the very last day and have not received confirmation, anne - so I think it's just truly random depending on how the envelopes are opened and when they have to start making a new stack and all that jazz. I'll post when I hear confirmation.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I'm just a pessimist!
 
Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :
 

Got my confirmation email this morning. I'm officially in!!!

S!
S!...C!


 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
still nothing...
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
are you guys getting your confirmations via snail mail or email?
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Sent mine on the 26th, still no confirmation. And they're sent via email, deb.
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
I sent mine in a good week or so prior. Haven't heard a thing.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Assuming, of course, you gave them your email! I sent mine on the 27, no reply yet. I also sent them an SASE, so I wonder which one they will use? Don't remember if i actually put a stamp on the SASE, though.
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
I could be wrong but I think that the SASE is not for confirmation of receipt but rather an indication of your place in the contest (honorable mention, finalist, etc).

If you included your email on the cover sheet, Joni strives to send out an email to you when she processes your manuscript but its not a guarantee. If you didn't include your email then you won't receive anything until your manuscript is judged.

That's how I interpreted the rules that is.

Anthony
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Still no confirmation...
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
I'm right there with ya, man. Don't give up yet. I still need the encouragement.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Finally, I got my confirmation. It took twenty three days from sending the entry off.

Anyone been waiting longer than that?
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
I sent mine 6/24.

any minute, now . . .

[This message has been edited by debhoag (edited July 19, 2008).]
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
Sorry I haven’t been around much in the last few weeks but I’ve had a busy summer with work and family and even now we’re getting ready to go to Yosemite for two weeks. I just wanted to tell you I got a call from Joni about an hour ago. She said they are about half-way through reading but I am currently a finalist. Essentially there would have to be 8 other stories better than mine out of the remaining boxes to bump me to Semi because I am currently tagged as number 1 in the finalist list. That is to say Kathy has my story marked as the best of the first half of the quarters entries. I just about fell off my chair. Joni was pretty excited for me too, nice woman.

I'm not getting too excited yet as this is like leading in a marathon at the 13-mile mark... anything could happen. Still I will allow myself a little excitement.

Tracy

I should note that this doesn't mean my story is ahead of any of your entries because you all seem to enter late and your stories would not have been read yet. I sent this one in on 15th of April.

[This message has been edited by tnwilz (edited July 20, 2008).]
 


Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
How exciting, Tracy!

Grats on the phone call. I didn't know they made those sort of calls before all the stories were judged, but then this is my first quarter so I'm learning more and more everyday.

Congratulations!

Anthony
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
I didn’t know either. Apparently Kathy sends them back ranked so Joni knows which to bump to Semi and HM as more ranked winners come in. In theory I could get bumped all the way to HM. But yeah, I was a little surprised she told me that, it was however the sole purpose of her call.

Tracy
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Way to go Tracy.

I Still have yet to even get my confirmation that my story made it.
 


Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
I think Joni reads this. I just got mine two minutes after I posted
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
LOL BT!

Anthony
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Sent mine on 6/30. Still waiting... Am I the only one left? Sheesh.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Wow, congrats Tracy! That's awesome!

WriterDan, I sent mine 6/27 and still no response, so don't feel like you're the only one!

Since others have estimated 3-4 weeks, I'd say we still have a week yet before our situation becomes aberrant. And based on the experiences here, after posting our comments, we'll hear in the next few minutes!
 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
I haven't received a confirmation note either.

I know I received a confirmation the first quarter I entered, but I don't recall receiving a confirmation the second or third (I think this is my fourth entry, LOL, you'd think I'd keep better records!) I hypothesized that they create an email database and send confirmations to those who are new submitters. But this is highly unlikely, much more likely is the case that my overly-aggressive junkmail filter got it, or that my submission was received and considered but just not email confirmed-received.

ANYWAY - sent on 6/30 (at 4 pm, no less, LOL) and no confirmation yet. Hiya Joni! My email addy starts with this same handle.
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
I haven't heard anything yet, either. Although I did get a spam-block notice the other day. If that was it, I don't have any way I can figure out to go back and see what got blocked.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Deb, then you should probably adjust your spam settings! (you can do this by going to your internet service provider's webpage, most often.)

Meanwhile, I got my confirmation this morning.

I'm sure they're just processing hundreds, thousands of these entries - it takes a while.
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
maybe even millions! . And my spam block is set low, Kayti. It's just posessed by a demon determined to thwart my writing career. That's all.
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Got my confirmation today, too.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
CONFIRMED FOR Q03!!! Ha, ha, ha! Man, it feels good to finally have that. Luck, everyone!
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Got a second confirmation, so I guess they paid a couple bucks postage for the first package I sent with only two stamps, instead of sending it back. If I email someone at the contest and explain what happened, is there any chance I won't be disqualified?
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
I would say that without question, if you email Joni and let her know what happened, you will not be DQ'd.

I believe this is here email address, at least according to the WotF Blog.

contests@authorservicesinc.com

Cheers,

Anthony
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
Finally got notified. Seven times in a row, as a matter of fact. I think whoever hit the send button must have been drinking A LOT of coffee!
 
Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :
 
Congrats Tracy on your current placement in the WOTF. (I haven't been on this site in a while and just heard.)

Hoping you win (mostly so you will get published and then I will be able to read a story that is so good it can be placed at the top of the list well before reading is over, but also, so that I won't have to compete with you anymore in these amatuer contests. LOL.).

Good luck and congratulations again.
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Hey Tracy, could I read your story?
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
well I'm on holiday right now and am replying using my phone while sitting in front of the yosemite gift shop. When I get back home on the 8th I'll send you a copy. Sorry if text is choppy... This is tricky from a phone. Thanks for the support guys. Go hatrack. Let's dominate this comp and take it away from Wordos. Tired of them placing every quarter.

[This message has been edited by tnwilz (edited July 28, 2008).]
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Oh thanks, and take your time. I'll send you back some crits if you want them.
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
Now I know that many of you are deeply troubled by the possibility of my untimely demise due to the fire that has been raging 12 miles west of Yosemite NP. Lose no more sleep, apart from some smoke that invades the valley for a few hours in the early evenings we're fine. My pants give no indication of imminently bursting into flames. Getting lots of writing done in the trailer and had a burst of creative brilliance over eggs benedict in the Yosemite hotel resturant this morning. Gina struggled to see the vision I related like someone trying to verbally recount a movie they had seen the night before. Her eyes involunterally glazed slightly as she offered encouraging hums whilst spreading perfectly whipped butter on a still warm scone. Hmmph she'll see... one day

Tracy from his phone.
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
So after a long chat with Kathy last night she revealed that she still has only read half of Q3 because she hasn’t been able to get home since early July with everything that’s been on her plate for the last five weeks. Two workshops, Budry's death and of course the awards.

She warned me not to tell her anything about my story so she wouldn’t know which was mine but explained that what Joni meant was that my story has been held back at her house in the finalists pile. When she’s done reading Q3 she will then sort them into Semi-finalist and Finalist. If she ends up with more than 16 she will have to bump the extras to HM. 99% of the HMs apparently get read and go straight into an HM box and sent back to Joni. The very late listed HMs probably had actually been in the finalist pile at one point. That's straight from Kathy.

So when Joni called me and said I was first, she must have meant that my story was the first to go into the finalist pile. Makes sense because I sent it on APR 15th (very early).

So expect the Q3 results to be slow in coming, she just headed home today.


Tracy
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
So i should send it in early for better odds at feeling great about my piece.
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
thanks for the update, Tracy!
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Thanks for the info, Tracy. I appreciate your frankness.

I'm reminded of something a mentor of mine said a while back about applying for jobs: Be the first, best candidate they have. I think that applies here, too. I think it's harder to get knocked down once you've been selected as a top contender. Similarly, it's harder to knock an already choses piece down. You have to be good enough to make the editor (or KDW in this case) reassess her previous choice.
 


Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Does anyone know when more resutls from this quarter will be announced?
 
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
 
KD Wentworth said she should be done in the next two weeks, so I suspect mid to late September the results will start rolling in.
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
Yeah, she sent out a few more boxes at the end of the week after the ceremonies. I suspect that the HMs and Finalists from that bunch will be getting calls any day now.

I'm hoping they haven't yet, because if they haven't I should be receiving my rejection notice any day now.

KDW did mention that she wasn't done yet then so it's possible I'm in the last bunch although not likely.

le sigh...

Anthony


 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I had a dream I received an email from Joni. It either said I had insulted the judges with my story, or that I had won. The problem was, in my dream, I couldn't tell which they meant in the email!
 
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
 
Hmmm. That sounds like a dream I would normally have...
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
Oh yeah, I had that dream about you too. It was that you had insulted the judges. If I remember the dream right you called the story 'Why I think the judges are dummies.'

Or wait, did that really happen........(theme from twilight zone)
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
Hey, new list of honorable mentions is up at WOTF. Didn't recognize any names.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Holy cow that's a lot of names! I recognize Alethea Kontis, but no one else.
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
Wow... that is quite a list.

I wonder when those people sent their manuscripts. I've not received my rejection back yet but I'm guessing with that list, a lot of rejection slips went out. Maybe in the next few days, or better yet, it hasn't been read yet and I still have a chance.

Congratulations all!

~Anthony
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Such little faith, Anthony! Or are you trying not to jinx yourself?
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
You know... I can't decide if I care to be honest.

The way I see it, every rejection letter is a testament to my own courage. When I got my first one, only a month ago or so, I read it with delight.

I'd love to do well in the contest; an HM would be fantastic, and anything higher seems unthinkable. In the end I'll accept what I get and just write something else.

I don't like to wait however which is why I sent out my Q4 story last week. I figure, the earlier I get it in, the earlier I hear back.

~Anthony
 


Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
 
I regonize Andy Spackman and Brenta Blevins--both were finalists back in Q407. Brenta has had a pro sale since then, and placed third in the Return to Luna contest.

Edited to add: And Laurie Gailunas was finalist last quarter. I should've regonized her name. She's on my Livejournal friendlist.

[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited September 02, 2008).]
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Was happy to see that Utah is representing as usual. Seven HM's in this bunch for us funny Utahans. Crazy bunches of us in this state.
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
I think Rick Novy is active at Liberty Hall. Mike, is he one of yours?
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Rod Santos is an LH'er - and the name Rick Novy looks familiar too. Maybe that's why.

Congratulations everyone!
 


Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
Rick Novy is known in these parts as "Spaceman."
 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Kathleen *sets hands on hips and glares sternly*

Did you just reveal a hatrackers secret identity? No wonder why Bruce Wayne dumped you.
 


Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :
 

I made the HM list. Not bad...

S!
S!...C!


 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Sorry, I've been remiss in congratulating all of you. So, congratulations!
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Congrats guys.
 
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
You guys can now see one of the perils of posting under a User Name other than your own. If you get anywhere, how will the rest of us realize it's you?
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
You're right, Robert. Okay, guys, I'm gonna come clean. My real name is . . . Deb Hoag. What's yours?

[This message has been edited by debhoag (edited September 06, 2008).]
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Dan
 
Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
Congrats to all the HM'S. I would just like to say that my real name is Stinkywhizzleteets... so you can see why I prefer to go by Tracy.
 
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
 
Robert Nowall is my real name.
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
Sure, that's what you say . . .
 
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
 
Got my first straight reject from WOTF. I've often said I'd a creative meltdown--this proves the point...
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
Got mine too ChrisOwens. It was my first entry though so I'm batting .000 so far.

~Anthony
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
Haven't gotten one yet - I live in the sticks, though, and it sometimes takes an extra day or two. I thought I got my reject yesterday when I opened up my email and saw something from Galaxy Press, but it turned out to just be a promo on the reading they had at Author Services. The suspense continues . . .
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
I hope I remembered to put in a SASE! I can't remember anymore... It seems like just the sort of thing I'd forget.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Join the club, Anthony. I think I've had six entries so far (five returned to me, one in for Q03) and we pretty much have the exact same average. In fact, I've only gotten two "no-win" letters. The other three have been straight turnarounds. So, I think that your zero is even better than mine. You're like 1E-10, and I'm more in the realm of 1E-50. lol Have to love the contest though.
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Do they send an email in addition to sending your SASE back?
 
Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
I just got the MS back in the SASE I sent.

WriterDan: What do you mean straight turn arounds?

Anthony
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
You just get your manuscript sent back to you. No letter, or anything. This typically happens when the speculative element doesn't come in early enough, from what I understand. Took me a while to learn that lesson. If Kathy recognizes it as a speculative story, but not good enough to place, then you end up getting a "sorry you didn't win this quarter, but please try again" letter. At least, that's been my experience so far. And like I said, I'm sitting at a whopping six entries now so far. So, I don't know how comprehensive my experience is. Still trying to learn how this all works.

ck: I don't think I've ever gotten an email back from WotF about how my story did for a give quarter. But I know that Joni has been calling people for HM's and up. So, I'm waiting for either a call (yeah right...) or my MS back in the mail, with or without a letter.


 


Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Ah, ok. I was checking my email periodically so I guess I'll just have to keep an eye out for something in the mail. Next time I'll have to include an envelope big enough for my manuscript, too, since I just sent a letter sized SASE.
 
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
 
Since I live in the UK, and it costs enough just to send the story in the first place, I don't send an SAE with my entry. I can't afford return postage too. So I guess if I don't get placed, I won't hear anything back from them.

So, for all I know, my story is already out of the running.
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
It seems tough to come up with brilliant short stories and perfect them four times a year. Do any of you ever end up sending shoddy stuff that you have mixed feelings about, just to make sure you're always in the running?

On that note, do you suppose the screener recognizes your name and makes accidentally prejudiced assumptions before she even reads your work?
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Also, when do they announce the finalists? Or have they already?
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
"Do any of you ever end up sending shoddy stuff that you have mixed feelings about, just to make sure you're always in the running?"


I'm probably going to this next time around, simply because I haven't written anything in about a month and a half. I'm poor at revising, anyway.

On the finalists, I think that'll come in about a month or so. You might google "writers of the future blog" and look in those archives to see when the finalists were posted there in relation to the last quarter's deadline.
 


Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
 
Bookmark these links:

http://wotfblog.galaxypress.com/
http://webnews.sff.net/read?cmd=xover&group=sff.writing.writersofthefuture

Kathy Wentworth is still reading, she said she'll be done next week. After that, she'll select the finalists.
 


Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
quote:
On that note, do you suppose the screener recognizes your name and makes accidentally prejudiced assumptions before she even reads your work?

Hey Zero,

The contest is blind. By that I mean, Joni takes the MS when it arrives and removes the title page. Then the MS is sent to Kathy Wentworth who then actually reads the MS. There is no way for her to know who sent what manuscripts. In fact, after each quarter is judged you can generally catch her fishing for who wrote what story so she can get an idea who wrote which finalists.

Anthony
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
quote:
"Do any of you ever end up sending shoddy stuff that you have mixed feelings about, just to make sure you're always in the running?"

No. I'm not sure what the logic of this strategy is. if it's shoddy I wouldn't send it out anywhere. What's the point? I'd rather focus my energies and hopes elsewhere.

Now I have sent out stuff that I wasn't sure about. Not that I thought was shoddy, but I hoped was good but wasn't really sure. These I cross my fingers on and send.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
So, I guess I made my comments based on the fact that I send a SASE large enough for my manuscript to get sent back to me. If your story is a "non-winner" then I guess you'd get nothing back. Regular-sized envelopes would probably get the "thank you for entering, but..." letters. And if you're a non-SASE like our darklight, then you just have to keep-on keepin-on and hope that someone gets back to you if you win. That is one plus about living in the US. Cheap postage for this contest. Looking forward to seeing some names next week.
 
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Kathy finished her first read-through last night. Moving in to sort out Finalists and Semi-finalists now. Closer! Looks like it's definitely going to be next week that we'll get some announcements.
 
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
quote:
I think Rick Novy is active at Liberty Hall. Mike, is he one of yours?

I only visit Liberty Hall occasionally anymore.

quote:
Rick Novy is known in these parts as "Spaceman."

Correct. Alas, I don't get here much anymore either.

quote:
Did you just reveal a hatrackers secret identity?

I outed myself after I sold a story to IGMS.

For the record, this was my 7th HM/QF finish. Always the bridesmaid.


 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Well congrats, Spaceman. Being a bridesmaid means you get to wear a frilly dress at least once. Ain't all bad. LOL
 
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
When can we find the latest results?
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Any minute now, me thinks. KDW reported she's finished sorting semi and finalists.

Let the nail biting commence!

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited September 15, 2008).]
 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
good luck, everyone
 
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Also: where does it get posted? The link its just a forum. Is it posted in there?

[This message has been edited by Zero (edited September 15, 2008).]
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
The top link is for the WotF blog. That's the one that you want to watch. The bottom link is for a site that Kathy posts on to let us know where in the process she is and such.

Now I'm all jittery. Dumb, dumb. Thought I was past the nervousness of wondering what will happen with my story. Just goes to show how slowly I learn.

Good luck this week, everyone.

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited September 15, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited September 15, 2008).]
 


Posted by AWSullivan (Member # 8059) on :
 
It's only been twenty minutes but I haven't gotten it yet WD.

Anthony
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
No, I haven't got it yet, WD.
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Looks like Anne and Tracy are semi-finalists. Congrats, Anne, and it's unfortunate yours isn't a finalist, Tracy, but the critique will be helpful, no?

Wonder when they'll post the last honorable mentions. Not sure why my hopes were so high
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Crap--I'm floored! I'd be happy to share my story, and crit, when I get it. Just let me know.
 
Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
 
Congratulations, Anne! I'm not surprised in the least that you made it that far, even if I haven't read that particular story.
 
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
 
Congrats. With this much success, Hatrack will show up Wordos yet!

Edited to add: Welcome to the club! Let me serve as a warning example--don't end up like me...

[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited September 15, 2008).]
 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
I still haven't heard a thing.

[This message has been edited by debhoag (edited September 15, 2008).]
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
Well, Hi-Five Anne - we're representin for Hatrack and Cali.

Tracy
 


Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Holy, Cow! Our little crit group here is....awesome. I knew something cool was going to happen soon. I'm a semi-finalist and so are Tracy and Annie. I'm sure Annie and Tracy feel the same: thanks to everyone who did crits, I (we) couldn't have done it without you. Now, in the upcoming quarters, someone here, from our group, has got to win this thing. All of us gotta hang tough and keep plugging along. It's time to break out the James Baldwin quote:

"Beyond talent lie all the usual words discipline, love, luck -- but, most of all, endurance."

I can feel it in my bones. The upcoming writing year is going to be amazing.

*Edited for Typos Writing is Rewriting.

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited September 15, 2008).]
 


Posted by tnwilz (Member # 4080) on :
 
Congrats Chris, didn't know the last name. So 3 semi's - really not bad for an online group. Two weeks left to get into the 25th anniversary edition.

Tracy
 


Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Congratulations you guys! Fantastic news! I'm excited for you.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Christopher! Congrats! I didn't recognize your name, either.

And yes, thanks to all you guys who helped crit my story. The support I've gotten here is so awesome.
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Holy crap. We rock! Three of eight semi-finalists. This is what's called movin on up, peoples. I'm expecting no less than two finalists next quarter. You got me? TWO FINALISTS!!! Ha, ha! We're going to take over the world. Well...you know what I mean.

Congrats to Anne, Tracy, and Christopher!! Can't say it enough, but I won't repeat myself. Dang, I'm excited for you three. You know, I think that we're going to have to gloat. lol. Running count of honors lauded upon the members of this group, and awards from the previous quarter are to be posted in the first post of the group discussion for each new WotF quarter. Which means I need stats people! We'll show those wordos a thing or two. Need a current listing of awards that people won for this quarter (3rd, in 2008). To make things easy, we'll just start this this quarter, and start adding em up from here on out. We'll run the list like the sign-up one. So, here we are:

QUARTERLY AWARDS:
F: 0
SF: 3
annepin
tnwilz
Christopher
HM: 0

I know that there have been at least one or two HM awarded for the group this quarter, but I don't remember who they are. If that's you, add you name to our list of winners. And as you are each notified of how your entries have done, let's put em up here. When we've collected them all, I'll transfer the totals to the first posting for this upcoming quarter. Maybe that'll attract a few more people looking to win.

Again, congrats to everyone. Glad to see that this critique group is doing so well.

 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Last batch of Honorable Mentions are up on the WotF blog. I recognized a few names.

Mine's up there.

A first glimmer of recognition. Now to figure out how to move from HM to semi-finalist... Back to the drawing board.
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Whoo hoo! Dan, Scott, Sara, Deb... those are the names i recognize. Congratulations, you guys!
 
Posted by cklabyrinth (Member # 2454) on :
 
Grats to the last of the HMs.
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
It's not up there now! Deb as in Deb Hoag?
 
Posted by BoredCrow (Member # 5675) on :
 
Yup, I saw your name myself, Deb. Congrats to you!
(and to everyone else too!)
 
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
coolness! Thanks, BC, I was ready to chew someone's leg off. Probably Chuck's. And he has old legs.
 
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
 
Congratulations guys! wtg!


 


Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Good job guys. WriterDan, good job. I was beginning to think the contest was rigged against you.
 
Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
QUARTERLY AWARDS:
F: 0

SF: 3
annepin
tnwilz
Christopher

HM: 5
Dan
Scott
Sara
Deb
Steve (the Crankster)

Man, our crit group rocks. And, like I said before, those who made SF and HM couldn't have done it without the help of everyone who did crits. Everyone in our crit group should feel proud.

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited September 23, 2008).]
 


Posted by Crank (Member # 7354) on :
 

Don't mind me wanting to have my name added to the list, but I'm fairly proud of my HM placing! My first HM in three tries, in fact. Not bad...

Thanx to my fellow Hatrackers bigdawgpoet, Igwiz, WouldBe, halogen, skadder, and annepin for their First 13 crits way back when.

S!
Steve from Virginia!...aka Crank!


 


Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
 
Which makes me wonder how many of those stories were critted by Wouldbe. He's an extraordinarily helpful fellow, and he's read for a lot of folks around here. Did I mention what a great reader he is to have on your team? Thanks for all your help, Wouldbe. It wouldn't be nearly as much fun without you.
 
Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :
 
Hatrack is taking over! Way to go all! I am both proud and sorry that my participation fell off towards the end, but it was unavoidable I am afraid.

Let's get three Hatrackers into the Twenty-fifth Anthology. Q4 watch out!
 


Posted by Christopher (Member # 6336) on :
 
Crank, good job. ADDED above.
 
Posted by Icared (Member # 8091) on :
 
I know I wasn't a member then, but my name is on the list,too. This was the first story I have ever written, so it was really nice to wake up and see my name up there.

I have spent the last twenty minutes jumping around

Grats to all of you. You guys rock!
 


Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
 
Can't say the thought hadn't passed through my mind, Christopher. Think I need to work more on my beginnings, which is very much what I'm currently doing for my Q04 entry.

And congrats to everyone! I've updated our award count on the Q01 2009 post. Looking forward to watching it rise over the upcoming quarters. We rock! Ha, ha, ha, ha! (But of course, I say that in the most humble of tones...)
 




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