Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Share World Group

This is topic Share World Group in forum Hatrack Groups at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000068

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Welcome to the Share World Group. This seemed like the place to move now we have some people interested. I think the first thing to discuss before we start our first brainstorm is: genre.

I don't mind if we go with Fantasy or SciFi, but I am not great at Hard SciFi (I think that is the term, where all the sciene is based very strongly in fact) but one of the benefits of this sort of set up is that if one or more of you really is, and wants to tell me the name of the engine my ship will have, that could work well.

Secondly, how intergrated do our stories want to be? I am not sure if I have explained this well on the other thread, I will try to explain it better, or again, or something like that, here.

Shared World - not very intergrated: stories are set against the same geography and with the same history, but no characters from each others stories appear, or possibly are even mentioned.

Shared World - slightly intergrated: character from other stories may appear as guest stars in other people's stories.

Shared World - quite intergrated: one person's main character is possibly married to another person's main character, or possibly two people's main characters go to many of the same events, though as two people at the same event tend to do, they notice different things, or even hear different things, unless talking to each other.

One step from Mosaic Novel - Not only do the characters lives overlap but their stories are intercut throughout the volume.

True Mosaic Novel - the characters lives overlap and their stories are so intercut that more than one writer's work can appear in a single chapter.

And of course being a spectrum our work could fall anywhere in between these catagories I just created based on the two catagorise Martin used (he didn't create the term share world, but I think he did invent the term mosaic novel).

Personally I wouldn't mind doing something one step from Mosaic Novel, but it would be more work on the part of everyone but if done well would probably create the best book. Calls for a smaller group, but that might even work well to.

Would love to hear what you guys think on these two things so we can all start thinking about idea, and then we can start working out the logistics for our first proper brainstorm.

Still happy to accept new people, still not even at the point of cut off for a True Mosaic novel... :-)

EDIT: Getting more into the logistics of brainstorming, but also where do you live so I can start looking at time differences? So far we have Australia, UK and two mysteries.

[This message has been edited by Grant John (edited April 06, 2008).]

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

I guess I'll be the first person to throw in their $.02.

I think a true mosaic novel sounds too difficult to organize. a step down from that, I beleive, would be ideal.

You described it as...
_________________________________________________________________Shared World - slightly intergrated: character from other stories may appear as guest stars in other people's stories
________________________________________________________________

I think something like LOTR(I don't necessarily mean fantasy, though that would be easiest).
We could each write the story of a character who doesn't really interact with the others.
One of us could write the story of a Capatain who his pushing his men hard to reach a stronghold in time to reinforce it.
Another could write the story of the General/King who is holding the fortress.
And another could write the story of the antagonist who is assailing the castle.
And yet another could write the story of a seemingly unimportant character who ends up being the unwilling protagonist of the whole group.
Only in the last chapter would they actually meet. That would be written last, obviously.

Whatever we decide I'm pretty cool with. Superheroes, Martians, Gremlins, comicbook type chapters(But pictureless. each one its own complete story yet reaching a grand climax at season end, or anthology end.), LOTR type, whatever...

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Great. I'm on the opposite side of the world(from Aus.) USA, Ohio. (Eastern time.)

Posted by lscott (Member # 7870) on :

So it doesn't rule out the possibility of superheroes, then?

Just curious as that's what I'm currently working on...I'm in the USA, Central Standard Time.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Thanks for your $0.02. Sounds like our pages aren't far from each other, and Justin seems at a similar page from his comments on the other thread. Just to clarify your thoughts, are you thinking Two Towers, the telling of Aragorn and co for a while, then the telling of what happened to the hobbits at the same time (like two stories) or interspering the stories more chronologically by jumping between the stories as they unfold?

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

I meant the 'meanwhile', simultaneous sort. But I am open to ideas. Chronologically ordering our stories would require us to know who's story is more important/interesting at any given time in the ongoing story. Sounds more difficult, but I would swing my pen at it.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Superheros is possible, might be hard. Though if we did a really original take on it... maybe medieval fantasy superheroes. What if Robin Hobb had superpowers? This may be the craziest idea I have ever come up with but it could be very interesting...

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Not sure that we could be original about it. Hercules, Thor, etc.
In any event, I would jump at that. Medieval time superheroes.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

If we timelined well and just wrote the story we wanted to write then it shouldn't be too hard to put in chronological order. The only problem might be that if a couple of characters had the same busy day the rest of the characters might seem almost to disappear of the face of the earth for a while... But that could be a hurdle we jumped if we came to it. And we can always change the set up later if we just can't make our chosen set up work.

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Cool. When do we brainstorm?

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

True, Hercules was like a ancient superhero. I guess our orginality could be that ours don't get their powers from Gods. Though the line between superpower and magic only one person possesses might be an interesting one to define, unless Sherwood Forest is overrun with radioactive spiders :-P

[This message has been edited by Grant John (edited April 07, 2008).]

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

I don't mean to be a wet blanket but Beowulf was not sired of a god. I think. Don't qoute me. Anyway, the difference is academic. Does anyone want to write about characters in a medievil setting with pyschic powers, superstrength, the ability to fly, or just good old fashioned magic?

I do.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Ok so far my World Clock has told me that for me it is 10:23 am (something my microwave could tell me) in Ohio it is about 8:23 pm but in York (don't know where in the UK Jason lives) it is 1:23 am. But that is a start.

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

We do have a challenge as far as timezones are concerned. Maybe we won't be able to ALL get together at the same time. We might have to use a go between. someone near Grenwich time might be able to bridge the gap. I dont know.

For this next week any time is good for me. No work, too wet for what I do.

Otherwise, 5 Pm.to 10 pm. my time is good. saturdays, sundays anytime.
However that would be what(I dont have world clock nearby) 10pm. to 3:30 am Jason's time. He better be in bed for work at that time...

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

So on the table is:

- a medieval fantasy?
- Possibly superheroes or people with superhero like powers? (Iscott I would love to hear more about what you are thinking, either here or through e-mail if you would prefer)
- probably Mosaic Novel side of centre on the Share World spectrum
- me using msn to brainstorm in the middle of the night (something I am not actually adverse to, depending on what I have to do in the morning) :-)

[This message has been edited by Grant John (edited April 07, 2008).]

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Well, I think this early in the endeavor Iscott can have a great deal of input on how much like superheroes our characters will be. Me, I loved comic books as a youngster and would not be adverse to having our characters very very close to superheroes. What I have in mind is something closer to Thor, or some such. Whatever we decide when we get togethere is fine by me.

I am no great organizer and do not want the job of picking the time. For the next week or so I am free at anytime. So it doesnt much matter to me.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Ok, I might have something that might work. 7am in Melbourne is 5pm in Ohio and 10pm in York. Depending on if anyone is really far away from any of these times this might work, at least for a first meeting.

I will e-mail the four people on my list of interested parties my Windows Live Messenger/MSN user name, then hopefully at about:

Melbourne - 7am on Tuesday April the 8th
Ohio - 5pm on Monday April the 7th
York - 10pm on Monday April the 7th

at least some of us can meet on Windows Live Messenger/MSN (which I think are capatible, correct me anyone if I am wrong)and start a proper brainstorm.

If anyone else is interested feel free to put a note here or e-mail me and I'll try to get you in. If anyone is far from one of these three time zones if you should be able to check out the time for your area at:

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

If people still pop down genre and structure interests here it can help us all be as prepared as possible for the brainstorm.

Finger are firmly crossed,

Grant

[This message has been edited by Grant John (edited April 06, 2008).]

Posted by lscott (Member # 7870) on :

Well, as far as participating in the "brainstorm" session, I won't be able to, as my time would put me still at work, unfortunately. I will be glad to give feedback here, though, if you guys want me to.

Posted by Bent Tree (Member # 7777) on :

Hot thread. Good luck guys! Can't wait to see the outcome.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Had wrong Ohio time on above post, but now corrected it. Should be 5pm not 10pm as it is not the same time in York and Ohio. *blushing*

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Not sure if it is the timezone difference or the fact you finish work at 5, but I will still send you my MSN details and feel free to check when you get home if we are still going (not sure how long we will brainstorm for.) Also feel free to do your own little brainstorm and send it to me so I can put forward your ideas too.

[This message has been edited by Grant John (edited April 07, 2008).]

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

Ok! Here I go!

First off, I was so busy writing tonight I forgot to check the forums...

Second, I live in Wisconsin, so I'm central as well.

Third, I'm busy until central 730ish. Mondays are bad days for me, but I don't need to be there, and you will understand why later in the post.

Fourth, I think the mosaic (But just short of one since we are all knew to this and can't communicate perfectly) would be the most fun/challenging/exciting/and stuffs.

Fifth! I almost don't want to say this...
I'm not a super hero fan or a comic book fan. I'm not adverse to them, I just have never gotten into them. For instance, my favorite super hero, batman. Why? He didn't need powers. He was a normal guy was was freaking awesome, although somewhat bat like.

Do NOT let this stop you from having the genre fantasy medieval. I'm a HUGE fan of fantasy, so I'll be fine. I can also write about someone without powers, because lets face it...everyone can't have powers.

I need to learn how to write a character who isn't macho...this will be a good chance.

Also, I would love to be the editor/organize/planner for the plot and story. Putting them together like a puzzle, even if I have to cut my own little loopy ends to the pieces, is what really excites me.

Another note, if most of you are going to be busy creating your characters, (I'm assuming this is going to be character driven for each individual writer), I wouldn't mind working a bit extra on the world.

Anyway, I'm busy most of monday, but I will try and jump on inbetween classes to check up on it.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Justin don't feel bad about saying you are not that into superheroes, I think you are very right with the idea that not everyone has powers and therefore not everyone we show should have powers. If we use the LotR as an example, Gandalf had powers, but he was only in one POV, if we all play to our individual strengths it will make the mosaic all the better looking when put together.

Sorry you won't be able to make it to our first brainstorm, (finger crossed for three people) If like Iscott you have any ideas you want to throw on the table feel free to e-mail me or both Patrick and me and we will throw them on the table along with our ideas and hopefully Iscott's so that everyone at least has some level of say early on, especially if you have a Jungian Archetype or character type you would like to write (same for Iscott if you read this, though I will assume someone of supernatural power):

e.g. Classic Hero,
Squashbuckler,
Dark Hero
Damsel-in-Distress, Dude-in-Distress (possibly a beseiged general, Queen or King, basically I won't let it be a Virginal Princess in a tower, unless there is a really good twist on it)
Rival
Side-kick
Turn-Coat
All-knowing oracle
Princess
Born-to-Die (there was a brilliant one in Wild Cards who I won't mention because I still hold hope that someone other than me will one day read them, or - if the gods are kind - they will be re-re-printed.)
Or even Villian, though anyone who read my Dogen story now they know who wrote it can probably realise that I do love my baddies.) :-)

As I have heard no vote for SciFi you can probably assume our world will be at least vaguely medieval fantasy.

Still open to any new members, even if you can't make the brainstorming.

[This message has been edited by Grant John (edited April 07, 2008).]

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

I guess I don't have an archtype in mind for my character. I guess the greatest reason that none of those sound appealing is because I want a non-hero character, if you get that.

I will also probably decide on his (good/bad-strong/weak) thing once I see what everyone else has. I'm flexible with this idea, so I don't mind taking the last choice, per se. (Even though it isn't really LAST, but more like...'cant pick these four'...")

I just realized I may be coming off as difficult when this entire time I've been trying to NOT be difficult...oh irony.

To sum it up, I'm happy. Nothing so far at all is bothering me.

Posted by lscott (Member # 7870) on :

Grant John,
I've emailed you with my "brainstorming" ideas...let me know how it all goes and what you think later, will you?

Thanks!

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Sometimes, the most interesting character is the one in the group that doesn't have everything the others have--the one without the superpowers, for example. How is that person going to feel about being "left out"? What will that person do to make up for the difference? And so on.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Well, more than half our group have ended up spending close to 12 hours brainstorming, much to our surprise and delight. If anyone is still waiting in the wings, thinking about putting their hand up let me know and I can e-mail you a summary of our discussion so you can see if it sparks your interest.

No contract, no minimum to buy :-P

And I would like to publically thank Patrick and JustInProse for putting in a staggering amount of hours to get the ball rolling. And Iscott and Jason for the support they have given us so far, hopefully next time I can get all five of us together.

Now I can sleep,

Grant John

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Sleep. Grant. You definitely earned it.
Now, when is the next meeting? Can we get Jason or Iscott this time?

haha. Okay so I'm ready for more...

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

I know, I'm tired from last night...so much that I almost couldn't make it to class today, but I'm ready for more!

My character is far too alive for me to just sit around lol

I too am interested in when the next meeting is!

Grant...this was an awesome idea, kudos to you.

Btw, the names are freaking amazing...
If this wasn't going to be serious, I wouldn't let you change them. Makes me thing of The Pilgrims Progess meets Animal Farm.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Ok, hopefully after everyone has had a chance to read the summary of the last brainstorm we can have another brainstorm. The next time that comes to mind would be the same times on Australia's Friday morning and the UK and US's Thursday afternoon/night. However, I am fine with a brainstorm that doesn't actually involve me if that is the way to give everyone a chance to give input. And you don't have to commit to being there for the whole thing, the trick will just be that someone (I think) has to act as a sort of hub.

If Friday morning/Thursday night (same times per location as last brainstorm) is not going to be good, then plan B would be sometime over the weekend when people might be freer. If it is the weekend, my contribution might be limited, but as I said above I am fine with that.

Please let me know what you think when you can,

Grant

Posted by lscott (Member # 7870) on :

Wow! you guys did a lot of work there!

I might be able to join a session on Thursday at that time IF I can figure out how to get on Windows Messenger...I typically use a different chat system.

I'll see what I can do.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

According to Windows Messenger (haven't tested the theory) it can communicate with MSN, Windows Live Messenger and Yahoo something or other, at the very least. Jason seemed able to communicate with me using webmess, but couldn't accept an invite to join the main convo. Don't know what you are using but no harm in trying.

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

Ahhhh, we need to meet again. I'm dying to continue our story! Thursday is good for me as well.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Not long now Justin, and if you are dying for the meeting then I obviously haven't buried you under too many tasks, I will have to think of some more.

Now I will attempt to be on my computer an hour before our official starting time as mentioned above (if the following isn't in line with what you would assume from above, trust above) 6am Melbourne, 4pm Ohio, 3pm Wisconsin, 9pm York. Then everyone can join at the time that suits them. And if I am sitting on my computer from 6am to 7am with no one else on, that is fine as it will give me a chance to check all my internet haunts as I will have just got up.

Only issue that might arise is if the brainstorm takes me past 12 noon Oz time there might have to be a change of hub person, though I could probably leave my computer online, as long as it doesn't do anything strange like reset itself. That would be hurdle to jump at the time, but might make things easier for Jason, while giving the US writers the ability to join when they return from their days activities, or between their days activities.

Hope this message makes sense, and I hope to talk with all of you for at least some time in the next 24 hours.

Grant

PS Even if someone meets me at 6am Oz time I will still check my e-mails and our two boards here early on so if you want to throw something in the mix early, or aren't sure if you are going to make it, feel free to send it as our last brainstorm was gotten off to a start by Patrick and I discussing someone else's idea. I have also set up share folders through MSN with the three contacts who I have so far, the stuff in there is pretty much what I e-mailed you but might be useful.

PPS That is probably enough blabbing for me for the moment.

Posted by JasonVaughn (Member # 4358) on :

Hey guys. I'm having major trouble getting messenger working on my laptop and I won't be back on my computer until next week. I'll keep trying though and I'd appreciate being kept up to date with the brainstorming I miss.

So far everything sounds good. I was wondering how fast everyone was hoping to get moving on this (Just so I know how much overtime I can do at work.)

Hopefully I'll speak to you all soonon messenger

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

Hey guys,

Right now my internet isn't working on my compueter for some reason. I'm on my little brother's account posting this, so I should be able to get on soon.

As far as my tasks...I have plenty lol! I just want to talk about them!

Justin Armstrong

Posted by lscott (Member # 7870) on :

About three hours past the appointed time, I am STILL trying to get online with you guys....if I can't get it to work, I'll just look for another email...please...

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Well, another meeting held... More ideas added or tossed out.

I think we should hold our next when our first chapters are complete(first drafts). then we can read them and talk about how they don't fit with what everyone else is doing or alternatively(and really wishful thinking on my part) how well they DO fit.

I should have my first chapter done on wednesday(thursday for Aussies.). I believe Grant is on about the same pace.
I am pretty much open to any time for the meeting, I believe Grant and Justin are equally open.
I would like to hear objections or revisions of the time from anybody else, we would really like to make it conveneint for all the members:

5pm wednesday Ohio
3pm wed.Wisconsin
7 am Thursday Australia
10 pm wed York

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

Thankyou for the summary of the convo from yesterday Patrick, you did a very good job.

I second this plan for trying to get together with first chapters done (you'll probably realise why this doesn't faze me :-P)BUT chapter length is important.

I have been doing some math, but feel free to correct me if you have better figures, I just searched for 'novel length'.

If novels are meant to be under 110,000 words:

5 story lines means each storyline gets 22,000 words.

My first 5 page chapter is just over 2,200, if this were the average each person would have 10 chapters for their story.

Patrick's first three pages come in around the 1,200 mark so I imagine that in five pages he would be around 2,200 as well.

Therefore I am proposing the first chapters be 5 A4 pages long and appox. 2,200 words, which probably seems short but I think is necessary, unless anyone has come across higher starting figures. We have discussed shorter chapters around major events, which might mean that there will be more chapters, but some of the chapters will only be a few pages long.

Hopefully if we have the five first drafts by our next brainstorm (if you can't make it feel free to e-mail, I already have parts of three out of five, including my own) then we can check if they all mesh, discuss where we are going next and then write our second chapters.

Talk to some or all of you Weds/Thurs,

Grant

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

I am open on wednesday, so I'm up for it. I'm also ok with everything you have said about chapter lengths.

The map is being worked on, so it will be present at the next meeting. It will be pretty rough since the places haven't been put in stone, and it may very well need to be changed.

I'm hoping to be into my second chapter by then, seeing as Patrick and I already have 1 and 2 mapped out (somewhat).

Patrick, I'm going to have Sarah meet Barren when she leaves the interview, making Barren the last to go in. That would mean Barren could be used in yours, although she would be needed at the Interview eventually.

Anyway, good luck to all! See you on Wednesday (Thursday).

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Posting to say that this group is alive and well, we have just been doing all of our communication on another medium.
(For those who sent their best wishes to the success of this group, like Bent Tree.)

Posted by JustInProse (Member # 7872) on :

Giving an update to other members!

I'm still alive, and I'm still here. I've been swamped with end of the year stuff for school, but the good news is, ONLY ONE WEEK LEFT!!!

Looking forward to getting away from school, and back to writing.

Justin Armstrong

Posted by Patrick James (Member # 7847) on :

Share World is alive and well(I don't want to anyone to think we are failures.).
This group of writers is comprised of some of the most extraordinary people you are ever likely to meet, we are on pace to finish our share world novel within a foreseeable future. Don't be surprised if you see it on bookshelves within the next... well, publishers will take there time, won't they? (okay a bit optimistic, but just posting this for well-wishers in Hatrack. All of the people here are incredibly nice and I'm sure you that you are wishing us the very best.)