This is topic WCE - Writers Chapter Exchange in forum Hatrack Groups at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
This group has a loose organization for critiquing. Currently we are looking, as a group, at one chapter at a time from each member in the group. Depending on the specific draft we are working with each week will delineate the critique procedure we use. For example: The first three or so chapters were initial or early drafts. Those would be looked at with more highlighting of the story content, the character development, and reader interest. While a later draft may receive similar critiquing, we would expect those things to have been addressed; therefore would be practicing more editorial critiquing methods.

Authors here may present their first through final drafts for critiquing. Also, this group should provide a place to discuss issues and resolutions to various chapters, scenes, characters, and plots. These prospective dialogs should give to a much more creativity minded writing environment. As we solidify what we, as a group, want here I will amend this, or create a new group topic outlining our expectations.

Members in current chapter exchange rotation:

MartinV
MikeL
LDWriter2
Smiley
axeminister
History
enigmatiuser
bobbyshane

_________________________________________________________________

Should any feel the need for help addressing issues with any part of their own story please post the question or email the group.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 25, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 27, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited February 02, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited February 09, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited February 12, 2011).]
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
If we are going to break into pairs or small groups then we should probably understand what the other person is writing about. If we share chapters and ideas with the whole group then all the more important to understand each others work.

Let me start by including my genre and a basic background to my storyline:

Science Fiction ~ My story has it's beginning in the year 2933 where advanced technology is suffering from malnourishment and psychic abilities, some powerful, are seen as a dangerous disease that needs to be quarantined or cured.

www.mikelambson.com

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited December 24, 2010).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I have a very typical fantasy setting, a city with lots of races and subspecies. I will include magic, necromancy and all the usual stuff. Doesn't sound very interesting, does it? That's because I took a typical setting and try to make it interesting with the characters and the story. Of course I've tweaked every detail I can think of and gave it my own touch.
 
Posted by Dark Warrior (Member # 8822) on :
 
Is this the same function as the Novel Support Group (NSG)? Or does the NSG provide more than I've been using it for?
 
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
 
I believe the purpose of this group is to function as a chapter exchange similar to the way the WoTF critique groups run by WriterDan.

The novel I'd like to use for this group is Symbiosis and is hard science fiction. It follows a combat surgeon- turned-cruise ship doctor whose cruise ship has been invaded by sentient symbiotic aliens. When he becomes host to one of them, he is given a choice that will shape the genetic future of mankind.

[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited December 24, 2010).]
 


Posted by PB&Jenny (Member # 9200) on :
 
Does it have to be a chapter exchange? I've got nothing in the works as a novel but I'd love to offer crit help.

Well... maybe I could start one?

[This message has been edited by PB&Jenny (edited December 24, 2010).]
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
I think I've explained my novel a couple of times on a couple of threads but it's a Urban Fantasy with a half fey(all of the fairy critters) half human young woman who has a lot of emotional baggage but who in spite of it becomes a hero. She has pointed ears which she has to hide from the humans, can do some light magic, works with other half fey and is just trying to live her life when she is thrust into the lime light and Heroism. She experiences a romance even though she wasn't looking for such. This one is around 56 to 58 thousand words now but still growing.


Or there is a SF novel that is finished and still needs work even though I have revised at least two and a quarter times. This one might be YA or something close to YA. Is there another step before adult? Anyway, it takes place on another planet, one colonize mostly by refugees from a Star Nation ruled by a Dictator. The MC is searching for clues to the original landing when she accidently discovers someone else is searching for Nukes hidden on the planet and is planning on testing a couple of them on two cities for revenge. So it becomes a race to see if she and her helpers can stop the guy before he sets off the Nukes. This one is somewhere between 74 to 78 words long.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited December 24, 2010).]
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
PB&Jenny you would be welcome to crit only if that is what you would like to do. I wanted to start this group to help those of us just starting, or in my case - rewriting, a novel. We would work on chapters, characters, plots, and anything else that can make getting the work off the ground hard.

In a way this is like the WSG, but it differs by letting us start from ground zero. I know I am nearly there.

Here I would like to be able to collaberate whenever we want to, about any possible novel idea we have. Hopefully by doing all of this and working with each other closely, we will get the feedback we need and have the creative juices flowing as we put pen to paper.

This is my idea of this group, call us the CEBN, the BNSG, or some other cool acronym.


------------------------------------------------------

As the holidays can take our attention, I don't expect us to jump in right away. For the next week or so, let's solidify all of those ready to participate.

On monday 12/27/2010, I plan to email everyone listed up top, and anyone else that want's to join us. We can get a general idea of how and when we all want to start sending parts or ideas of our works.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited December 24, 2010).]
 


Posted by coralm (Member # 9274) on :
 
I'd like to take part in this as well. The novel I'd like to use is Elements of Rebellion. I've always considered it fantasy, but I've been told by one reader that the market is more in the romance genre. The relationship is very significant to the story, though I don't feel that the story is a romance. One of the aspects I am looking for input on is how to push it back more towards the fantasy end of the spectrum. There's magic, a rebellion plot, significant violence, adult situations (though nothing graphic) and world specific swearing. Currently 65k words, though I'm contemplating adding two more chapters.

Sindari is a slave embroiled in a scheme to free her people from the empire that subjugated her culture, relying on cunning and a newly discovered ability to control elemental energy.
 


Posted by PB&Jenny (Member # 9200) on :
 
Okay, I think I'll go back to the Time Hunter idea. I sort of hit a wall with that one. I would really like to get that one rolling. I'm toying with the idea of making it Steampunk. *help* Or not.

quote:
Time Hunter Nick Stone is a tracker for hire. He is brought on board by the only authorized time travel agency in the world because, before regulation, it caused too many rifts and paradox problems. Nick brings in unregulated users - criminals, and collects a healthy reward for each. He learns too late that other forces are manipulating events throughout time and more and more 'criminals' are disappearing from their lock-down cells.

He and his friends, Doctor Matisse, who perfected time travel, and the beautiful double agent, Precious McCorison, are being hunted themselves by the very criminals they put behind bars. Running out of time and options to return everything back to 'their' normal, or as close to it as possible, they have to choose between giving up entirely or joining the very people causing the problems in the first place, before their very existence is forever erased.


Or something really, really similar to that.



 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
coralm

without reading the novel or any parts of it yet you might try removing a couple of the "they looked dreamingly into each other's eyes" type of scenes.

The novel I am submitting for this chapter exchange has romance, most UF seems to have some romance even though mine was not planned, but I'm pretty sure it's not the main emphasis so the novel would not be considered Romance UF even though I may need a second opinion on that now that you mentioned your problem and I may not to cut something out if that is the case.

Outside of the paragraph long sentence I had thought about saying it's your book you decide what it is but there's the question of what an agent and/or editor would think it is. That I may not be able to say even if I read the whole book even though I could give it a try.


 


Posted by coralm (Member # 9274) on :
 
I think it's a case of a plot thread that got away from me and I'd like to get it back where I always thought it should be. I didn't even really notice it until the reader pointed it out to me. When I went back through the revision I said to myself, "Ya, that's not where I wanted it to be." I have removed a lot of what was too much, but specifically I'd like advice on what else could be stripped.

The relationship is very important to the overall plot, there's no getting away from that and I wouldn't want it to. I'd just rather have it be a fantasy with romantic elements than a romance with fantasy elements, ya know?
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I wonder if anyone would be willing to do a partial exchange with me? I'm thinking 25 - 50 pages only.

I'm not sure if the intention is to find a partner for their entire book or not. It may be a while before I finish and I'd love to just do a few chapter's swap.

This is for my crime/psychological thriller novel.

Axe

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited December 27, 2010).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
It is called chapter exchange. I am here under the impression that we will be exchanging chapters.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Yeah I think that was the original idea but a couple of us started talking about the whole book anyway. But some of that will be ironed out in single chapters I think.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
coralm
If you have removed some of it than it could be okay. Some romance isn't bad after all. That happens in the best of books by top writers.
 
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
 
My father is a huge sci-fi fan and he is always telling me I should put more romance in my stories lol.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Speaking of chapter exchange, I have the first chapter of my fantasy story prepared. Not the final version, of course, just something that I'm not completely ashamed to show people.

It's seven pages (20 if I use Standard Manuscript Format). Let me know if Times New Roman is OK or if you want me to use SMF.

Also, I posted the query for this story in the query challenge if you want to know the basic layout.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited December 28, 2010).]
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I have no problem with times new roman, I prefer the font myself. I usually use the doc format as well, if anyone can't use it or convert to read please let us know.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited December 30, 2010).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Yes, what particular format should we use? doc, pdf or rtf?

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited December 31, 2010).]
 


Posted by PB&Jenny (Member # 9200) on :
 
Yeah, I can only use the .rtf format. Something wrong with my word program.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I sent the rtf version to your e-mail, PB&Jenny.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I've received all six critiques so far.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 09, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 10, 2011).]
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
Mine is incoming soon.
 
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
 
I'm doing my best to finish today Martin.
 
Posted by PB&Jenny (Member # 9200) on :
 
I'm ready for 'Nightmare'. Ooh, sounds ominous.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Martin you will be receiving mine later tonight, maybe tomorrow. We're taking down Christmas Decorations and that's eating into my writing time. This is the second time some of you will see this.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 

Hmmm, seems like there are different people here compared to those E-mailing. But obviously one question we had has been answered already.
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I think we are all the same here and in the emails, unless I am completely blind...

LOL PB&Jenny, I hope it delivers. Your comment really made me smile and get all excited. I feel like the kid ready to show off for his friends. I don't know if I was able to pull all the emotion I intended in one short prologue without going too far, so please let me know.


[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 10, 2011).]
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Well, they have been some questions asked there, that had been already answered here.



 


Posted by PB&Jenny (Member # 9200) on :
 
Just so you guys know, I'm changing my username to Smiley. You'll be seeing me use that name shortly.
 
Posted by Smiley (Member # 9379) on :
 
Okay, I'm officially on as Smiley. Got a change in my work schedule so I have more time than I thought this week. Yay!
 
Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Hi Smiley,
Nice to meet you.
 
Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I have recieved 2 critiques so far.

Very helpful.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 16, 2011).]
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Mike is that for Nightmare? Or am I lost again?

If so you will get mine tomorrow.

Mine should be going out tomorrow too...I'll double check but I think I was listed for next week.
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Yes that was for Nightmare.

BTW I think I am going to make it a part of another chapter early in the book. I have talked with a few people and based on one of the critiques I have already recieved, I see it needful.

My prologue, nightmare, doesn't flow quite right with the rest of the story. It is also extremely rough; I knew it needed a lot of work. Keep in mind, this is my first novel, and with it comes a huge learning curve for me to tackle. Right now I don't know what I don't know, but I know that I don't know a lot.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 16, 2011).]
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
quote:

Right now I don't know what I don't know, but I know that I don't know a lot

That is precisely why it is hard for newbies to revise their own stories.

And it's a lesson I am still learning. I keep thinking I have learned enough to know something, to recognize what I need to know. But so far that hasn't worked out.


But that's one reason for these writing circle sites and why we read books written by pros and why we practice, practice, and practice and of course practice.
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Okay, I sent out my chapter, hopefully everyone will get it and can read it. I also sent Mike my query for his chapter.


Hopefully, I sent everything-including a story to another group- to the right people.



 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I didn't get it, unfortunately. Please send it to me again.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Mike, did you get it now?
 
Posted by Frederick Williams (Member # 9382) on :
 
Hello all.

Am I too late to join this group?

Cheers
 


Posted by Smiley (Member # 9379) on :
 
No, I don't think you're too late at all. You'll just be at the end of the queue. Uhm... right, MikeL? I think you'll even us out.
 
Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Nope, not too late. You just missed the first three chapters since we started. I will send your email out to everyone in the group so that you get the next chapter to critique.

 
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Hello.

I have not participated to date because of the criteria stated in the Original Post for "those of us just starting or in the beginning stages of a novel."

As some of you are aware, I completed my first novel last August during my convalescence after cornoary stenting, and I appreciate the critique by Forum Members of the first 13 lines. I believe the first chapter(s) is (are) the weakest and would benefit from critique, if permissible in this Chapter Exchange Group or, if not, by anyone with interest.

Please see: http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum26/HTML/000929.html

If I have intruded inappropriately into this Group, please accept my apologies in advance and ignore this post.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Things here seem to be going okay, got three crits for my chapter and this week's chapter. Not that all of the crits came today. The next one sounds awfully familiar even though I have never read it. But that's what I get for reading the first 13 lines of some novels and the query for others.
Not that I have been reading the first 13 lines in the last two to four weeks I'm afraid.

Now I have five crits.

But History, since no one has responded I would say it seems like you can hook up at the tail end, someone just did that.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 24, 2011).]

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 24, 2011).]
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I agree, History, please feel free to join us.
 
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Thank you, Mike.
Tell me what I need do to participate?

I do not find exact criteria of conduct in the proceding posts.
What sort of critique is desired?
1) Proofreading only
2) Personal feedback on story flow and if the author maintains my interest; identifying any points of confusion.
3) Editorial critique (word/sentence/paragraph structure).
Etc.

Thread members who wish me to critique their chapter(s) [is there a page limit?] can email me. I have some time next week to do so. Tell me what sort of critique you desire.

If anyone wishes to read and critique a chapter(s) of mine, just let me know. Here's a forschbise (appetizer):

The Kabblist: The Foundation of the Kingdom is an urban fantasy novel set in the narrow streets, alley bars, mansions, and subway tunnels of Boston and incorporates the mystical traditions and folklore of Judaism, Christianity, and Germanic paganism. It is also a Kabbalistic mystery, and liberally seasoned with Judaic themes, aphorisms, and angst.

There is a demon loose in Boston, and Rabbi Cane has to stop him. As the body count rises, his friends, his enemies, and the police are saying it's his fault.

Cane fears they may be right.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob



 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I've had the flu for nearly a week... Now I've got strep throat. I'm pretty miserable.
I'll get your crit over to you LD, it's just gonna be a little late. =(

Axe
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
This group has a loose organization for critiquing. Currently we are looking, as a group, at one chapter at a time from each member in the group. Depending on the specific draft we are working with each week will delineate the critique procedure we use. For example: The first three or so chapters were initial or early drafts. Those would be looked at with more highlighting of the story content, the character development, and reader interest. While a later draft may receive similar critiquing, we would expect those things to have been addressed; therefore would be practicing more editorial critiquing methods.

Authors here may present their first through final drafts for critiquing. Also, this group should provide a place to discuss issues and resolutions to various chapters, scenes, characters, and plots. These prospective dialogs should give to a much more creativity minded writing environment. As we solidify what we, as a group, want here I will amend this, or create a new group topic outlining our expectations.

Currently there is no limit imposed restricting chapter length. I would suggest that if a chapter is over 25 pages long it may need divided into separate chapters.

P.S. I like the term Writers Chapter Exchange or W.C.E for this group. Would any be opposed to renaming?

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited January 25, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Fine by me, as long as we keep doing what we're doing.
 
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Thanks for the details.
I'll await the next email of chapter(s) to be read.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 


Posted by Frederick Williams (Member # 9382) on :
 
Due to pressure of work at the moment, and other matters, I'm afraid I need to withdraw from the group.


 


Posted by Smiley (Member # 9379) on :
 
Nooooo.... It starts.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Oops.

I just figured out that I sent out an incomplete chapter one. Anyone want to crit the rest of it? The new section is 1850 words long. My mistake so I will understand if you are all busy.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited January 27, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
quote:
I just figured out that I sent out an incomplete chapter one.

It felt whole to me.

No offense, LDWriter2, but it seems to me like you need some serious improvement in management. I saw at least two similar 'oopses' last week. If you sent your queries or partials the same way, no agent or editor will take you seriously. Just trying to help.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 27, 2011).]
 


Posted by Smiley (Member # 9379) on :
 
Hmm... W.C.E. I like it.

I'm good with that.
 


Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
As I'm the latecomer, I haven't received anything yet, LD.
Feel free to email me what you desire to have critiqued.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I am reposting this topic with the proper name WCE, please feel free to continue posting there.


 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Hmmm. Mike. Pardon a "duh" moment but did you mean the whole thread or just this one topic within the thread?



 


Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
MikeL, I can change the title of this topic, so it can all stay in the same topic.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 

Not sure if this is still the place for this but yeah, I do at times forget things I want to include but in this case there's a reason. I did this novel with NaNoWrMo. I worked on it at work and at home. So I had to transfer the stuff done at work to my main computer. I ended up with a bunch of chapter parts... chapter one A, chapter one B, chapter three A and so on. I have twenty plus parts. At the end I put all the parts together and evidently skipped one for chapter one. I found that out when I started on redoing chapter two. Good thing I saved the parts.


Yeah, I know parts are parts.
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Wow KDW, really? Please, if you would change the tpoic title to:

WCE - Writers Chapter Exchange

Also, since I did create the new topic would you please delete it?

Thanks,
Mike
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I sent my first chapter to you, History.
 
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
Done and done.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Another duh,

Someone said something about doing more than one chapter, so are we going to do the next chapters..two, three so on? Or is that another version of the one we sent in.

And I assume that is after everyone is done with their first chapter.
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Well, I figured that we could send whatever part we needed help on next. I don't sugges jumping to the final chapter before allowing us to read the rest, but if you need the first or other chapters re-evaluated then by all means send it again.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
When my turn is up again, I was planning to send the second chapter of my upcoming novel, then the third and so on.
 
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Hi.

May I suggest something I learned from Forum Member Matt Leo?

Matt instructed me on the way he critiques a manuscript, and I have found this very enlightening:

"I look at manuscripts on three scales: the micro (basic high school composition: word choices, grammar, usage, paragraph flow); the macro (plot, characterization and theme, world); and finally the meso-scale (atmosphere and mood; setting; pacing; story flow; rhythm)."

I find that these need be mastered sequentially; that is, unless the "micro" is near perfect, the reader/editor will not be able to appreciate or as effectively critique the "macro" or the "meso."

I would not presume to send anyone a chapter I have not spell-checked or re-read for grammatical errors and poorly worded sentences, etc.

I very much would welcome suggestions in improving the structure of a sentence; however, my hope would be that the majority of my manuscript would be free of "micro"-errors, and you could focus on story flow and characterization improvements.

I'm only on my second of two critiques for our WCE Group, but would it be inappropriate to suggest that the participating authors perform a first revision of their chapter for "micro" errors (spelling, etc.) before submitting it for critique? This will allow more time to focus on the substantive aspects of the story and story flow.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

[This message has been edited by History (edited January 30, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
That bad, huh?

I believe my texts have few spelling errors since I am rather perfectionist. What I lack is experience with English grammar. A sentence might sound sane to me but given to an English-speaking person they would find it completely ridiculous. This considered, I am not above being told what grammar mistakes I'm making. I imagine that in this particular piece my primary mistakes are tense and clause. I am still experimenting with English, trying things out, using the old trial and error way of learning. So if you find a mistake that is constantly appearing, do mark it and tell what I'm doing wrong.
 


Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Not at all, Martin.

I am just sharing Matt Leo's method of manuscript critique for WCE participants to consider.

My suggestion regarding doing the best each of us can on the "micro" (spelling, etc.) before we forward a chapter for critique will permit a more efficient and effective use of each reviewer's time--allow us to get to the macro/meso meat of the manuscript.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

P.S. I just finished your chapter and sent it back to you. Thank you for the opportunity to read and comment upon it.
 


Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
quote:
Someone said something about doing more than one chapter, so are we going to do the next chapters..two, three so on?

I thought I'd pointed you all at the novel critique suggestions topic in the Ways to Critique area, but maybe I haven't.

Anyway, I offer it now, in case you'd be interested in trying one or more of the suggested arrangements in how you approach each others' chapters.
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I am editting the third chapter of my novel now. If we go any faster, we might catch up and I wouldn't have anything to send to you.

Speaking of which, didn't we say new chapters will be send on Sundays? It's Monday evening now and I see nothing in my e-mail bin.
 


Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Isn't coralm's chapter next?
 
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
Smiley is next.
 
Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
I apologize for not getting your critique back to you Coral, I had a major computer issue and had to restore my hard drive from back up. It took two days to restore 1.5 TB and I ended up losing the critique I had for you - it was done after the back up processed. I will try to get it done again and back to you soon.

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited February 01, 2011).]
 


Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
Thanks for adding me, I am the latest member I think. Or newest, so I'm ready...when should I expect a chapter to crit, and what's the order?

Thanks, can't wait!
 


Posted by coralm (Member # 9274) on :
 
My chapter went out last week, but I'd be happy to sent it out to you individually, Dr. Bob. Let me know if you want to see it. We haven't got this week's chapter yet...

[This message has been edited by coralm (edited February 03, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Considering that this week in nearly over, I propose this week a chance to catch up our reading and continue with the next in line as originally intended. I'm sure Smiley has his reasons but it would be pointless to haggle about that.
 
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
I signed up to participate, coralm.
Please send it along.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
OK, I'll send mine out on Super Bowl Sunday. (note the caps).

Go Packers!

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
How many more people on the list?


And are we going to start over again or have we started over again?

I think I'm getting some of the groups mixed up with the Challenges
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
Mike's been doing a good job of keeping the first post organized with the drops and adds.
Check out the OP.

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Okay after axeminister, there should be two more, Then do we start over or end it?
I won't mind continuing.


But This, and the other groups and/ or challenges will be all I will be doing on hatrack for the next one to four weeks. I need to sacrifice something to get the chapters revised I want redone and the story for Q2 of WotF done... not to mention the inhuman challenge.
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I'm cool with continuing if Mike wants to keep his watchful eye over us.

10 - 15 pages a week to crit is good. Actually, it's really good because it keeps the crit muscles going at all times. Along with a deadline. (Practice for later on )

Besides, I want to see where these stories are going.

The only thing I'd like to request of the group is to please include your original chapter when you send chapter two. After a two month loop, I'd like to scan the previous before reading on.

And if you've edited the original based on feedback - even better.

Axe
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I have the second chapter ready to be looked at.
 
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
enigmaticuser, can you send me your e-mail address?
I don't believe you're currently on the group roster.

My chapter(s) just went out. If anyone didn't receive, let me know.

Axe

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited February 06, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I sent the critique to Smiley.

Are there any late comers who didn't get my first chapter and would want to read it (Arena)? Because when it's my turn I will send chapter 2 and it won't make much sense if you havent' read chapter 1.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited February 06, 2011).]
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
What do you think about including the previous chapter(s) and maybe put a blank page or something where the old one stopped and the new one takes over?

This way we can get reminded and check out any changes that may have been done.

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
I would be okay with the previous chapter being included again but I don't think we need a a whole blank page. Just make sure there's like a quarter to half a page skip and the new chapter says Chapter two.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I didn't improve my first chapter. I read all the critiques but I'm continuing editing the rest of the novel. I will return to revise chapter 1 when the rest are done.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
I haven't worked on my first chapter either since we got the crits since I have been doing chapter two. And another story plus new writing.

Maybe I can do some on that holiday coming up.
 


Posted by bobbyshane (Member # 9394) on :
 
I'm interested in joining the group... would that be possible?

Also have you guys thought about maybe using google docs and sharing documents instead of emailing back and forth... that would probably help with needing to go back and look at old chapters, etc. Plus you can edit on there... I'm not sure if you can add notes but you might be able to.
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I'm down, but only if you send Shining in Crimson.

And since you showed up during my week, you get to start with my chapter(s). Bwa ha ha!

Can we add BobbyShane to the group?

Googledocs huh?
Gonna go check that out.

Axe
 


Posted by bobbyshane (Member # 9394) on :
 
Well, if I can join that's exactly what I was going to send considering it's my only novel, it's not like I have a lot of choice, hehe.

And Google docs does have the typical "Insert->Comment" and it actually put's the person's name of who's commenting with the comment and etc. It seems like it would be pretty sweet for exchanging work and etc. Only thing is you have to have a google account though. But its free and very useful. Here's a list of the features available in google docs: http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
You are welcome to join.

I am sorry, but I won't be able to critique anything for a bit. I will still keep this forum up to date and keep an eye on the emails, but I can't participate as much for a few weeks. I have some family issues including serious illness, which must take precedence for the next few weeks.

Again, I will still keep the forum up to date with any changes in membership etc...

Thanks for your support,
Mike
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 


Pardon me for putting this here but for all those who read my First chapter for Bright Lights. I am thinking of changing the first name of my MC. Now it's Kerry Bedrosian. but I have thought about giving it some type of uniqueness. So I thought of Sierra like the mountains or Mauve like the color. I choose the color because it's close to her mother's real name.


I not only like the uniqueness of either name but the Character I sort of, kinda, in a way based her on is called October Daye. So the new name would kinda of go along with that type of name and it would sort of, kinda of, in a way be a tribute to the Daye.
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
In the Big Lebowski, there was a character named Maude. I had to go check to see if it was Mauve.

I prefer Sierra to Mauve tho. One sounds like a name, one sounds like a color.

Just my opinion, and you know the common phrase about opinions.

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Maude is a name. There was a sitcom with that name a while back.

But Mauve is a color. If Seanan McGuire can name her character after a month I can name mine after a color. Of course to really adopt the same type of name I would need a different last name. Something that goes with the color. But that would be true for Sierra too but the last name would have to do with mountains. Sierra Lake maybe or Trail or something with an old fashion spelling.

But I still haven't made up my mind. I do want something more unique than I have though.
 


Posted by Smiley (Member # 9379) on :
 
Have you thought of the name Sienna? I have a friend who named her daughter that. I thought it was a cool name.
 
Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
I could see it going either way, though I've not had a chance to read your work yet, but women's names often (fittingly so) have feminine quality which is usually linked to ideas like grace, beauty, etc...and often to subcatagories like color. So I don't see why Mauve would be too unusual. I mean Jade is a name. Lily. Rose. Summer? Honeysuckle =)

Mauve sounds good to me. I think of a person with a sobriety about them, it feels a bit weightier than Sierra which sounds slightly flighty to me (which is odd because the Sierra mountains are not flighty).
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Is it my turn already or is someone left?
 
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I believe we have Bobbyshane next, then we'll start over with you, Martin.

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
quote:

Mauve sounds good to me. I think of a person with a sobriety about them, it feels a bit weightier than Sierra which sounds slightly flighty to me (which is odd because the Sierra mountains are not flighty).

Took me a while to respond but thanks for the comments everyone.

The other day I thought of a completely different name that seemed to fit better but forgot it already.

How about Lightning??? That wasn't it but it would almost fit her.

And the Sierras aren't very flighty even though they are not as weighty as the Rockies

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited February 27, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Not to be a pain but it's Monday evening and we are suppose to send our chapters on Sundays. Bobbyshane, please post your first chapter.
 
Posted by Smiley (Member # 9379) on :
 
Hi

not well this mnth. will comeback later

Smiley
 


Posted by Montag (Member # 9421) on :
 
I'd like to jump in this if I can.

Fantasy setting. My own little world > . Only two species: Dragons and humans. Dragons aren't introduced early though.

1st Chapter is 2275 words.
2nd Chapter is 3788 words.

I will work hard on getting the next few chapters done. I already have them in mind just need to type it out.
 


Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
Where did everybody go?
 
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
Martin's chapter 2 should have been back to him this past Sunday.

(Martin, I'll have for you soon.)

Louis is up next. Bright Lights & Chaos - chapter 2.

Axe
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I was wondering the same thing. So far I haven't received a single review. I assumed people were busy so I waited.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 

Is my turn now or next Sunday?
 
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
Your turn 2 days ago.

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 

Martin, I must have misplaced it because now that you mention it I remember receiving something but when I went through my stories Saturday I didn't see it. How I can misplace a file I don't know.


And my chapter is going out tonight, hopefully between 7:30 and 8:15 Pacific Time.
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Martin, I sent you a short crit. As I said it's short but I really don't know if I can say more. I will go back over it again to make sure but it seems to be coming along fine. More about that in my Crit. And some hatrackers might find things I didn't see and won't see.



 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
And I sent out my Chapter two. If anyone didn't get it I will try again.
 
Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
Sweet, I missed you guys! Don't you know how desperate some of us are for fellow writers just rub electronic elbows?

Anyway, looking forward to it LD.

Has Montag been injected into the list? And it seems like it would be helpful to have a full list posted every week. I mean, if we're paying attention to our emails we'll know who just went, look at the list and say "ok, I'm up next."

 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I didn't get the story LD.

Also, I didn't know to add Montag to the list. Somehow I missed the post...

LD, send your chapter to the firebat and we'll absorb he into the fold.

Axe
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I've received 1.25 review so far (Louis made a rough review and said he would get back with more.)
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 

From my point of view it's probably closer to .50 of a review. I don't think I will find a lot to be critical of. We shall see of course when I take a closer look.


But I think this is the fourth story and chapter that I didn't find much I could say. Except with what was done right that is. Either most of you here are improving significantly or I'm slipping in my reading habits.



 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
You can say what you liked too. Or what you failed to understand.
 
Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
It's true, LD, a review/crit doesn't have to be bad. Finding the positive is good too, but in either case for myself, I find I have to lower my squelch if you will.

Like, I'm a pretty tolerant reader. I'll find something that in a story that is the equivalent of a guy in the theater next to me saying something during the movie. The movie is fine, but the guy just reminded me it's just a movie. Or on the flipside, seeing a scene that was just so amazing that I stop to look around like "did anyone else see that?"

So when I review someone else's work, every time I find a speed bump or one of those "wow" moments I stop and write a comment whether good or bad. It's just a matter of training yourself not to ignore those subtley different sounds coming from under the hood. "What was that throbbing sound? Is my engine out of tune? Is the wheel pulling...oh it's not too bad..." then you get used to it and ignore it.

"This writer uses unnecessary prose...well I don't like it, but someone else might" I think that's the most tempting. We don't want to be hard on a writer when it's just our opinion, but the thing is all of their readers will have opinions. He/She can't write for the opinionless writer, and each opinion will come back from a different perspective, we need to help them see what others might see in their writing by being ourselves. Not by giving them the non-opinions of a hypothetical third person.

That's how I approach it anyway, and anyone is free to let me know they'd like less feedback then I give.
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
axeminister, The second chapter I sent came back twice. You been busy with E-mail?
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 

As for reviews and crits. I know that you can say positive or good things about a story. I usually do but with most stories that doesn't take long to type out, even when I point out scenes with good techniques.
 


Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
Hotmail isn't working for me write now, so I may be delayed in reviewing. LD, I was going to ask you by email if you had another formatted file for chapter two, I don't have anything that can open a cwk.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
I received one e-mail with that comment about the format. Was that you?

I sent another file with .rtf . If you are having problems you may not have received it


For some reason I attached the wrong file originally, too much of a hurry probably.

Anyone else get the wrong file?
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Well, I got my first crit for my late second chapter but it looks like I'm still having problems getting it sent out to one person, at least one.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited March 20, 2011).]
 


Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
 
Martin,
LD replied he got my critique.
Did you get the one of yours I did?

Dr. Bob
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I received four reviews from: Jesse, Louis, Dustin and dr. Bob. Since I don't know which Hatrack name goes to which name, I hope you can recognize yourself. :P
 
Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
bump.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Martin I was going to ask if you got my second more full crit. Even though there wasn't much more in it.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited April 03, 2011).]
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I got both reviews from you, Louis.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
My computer's broke so I don't know how I will fare with the reading.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
My computer is fixed. I caught up on my reading so I'm ready to receive new chapters.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Ok, I feel like I'm talking to myself.

Who's next on the list? I know we didn't get around to me yet.
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
You are talking to yourself. =)

There seems to be a few folks who have vanished, but still a few folks who are digging the exchange.

I'll send an e-mail with the active names on it and the order.

If you find yourself missing from the list and want to be back on it, say something in here.

Axe
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
quote:

Ok, I feel like I'm talking to myself.

Two things here:
Hey, you're a writer, you sit around all day making up stuff: wonderful, fantastic, sometimes life encouraging, you tell lies for a living and get away with it. Of course you talk to yourself.


And if you are like most people here, um, some people here- well, a small handful of people here you do talk to yourself.



 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
But I be here and am active. So let's party. With chapters that is.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
I'll send chapter 3 of the Arena today.

Edit: Ok, I've sent chapter 3 to Dustin, rfinegold, Jesse and ldwriter2. If anyone's missing, let me know.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited April 17, 2011).]
 


Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
I've spent my whole life wanting to be praised by people who ignored me and wanted me to change who I was to be in someway useful to their lives that required the world to revolve around them...but finally...finally I am part of the in-crowd.

Jk, none of us are like that. I mean none of us spend our time reimagining...the world...as...hmmm...dang maybe I am one of those people.
 


Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
Just wanted to let all the newer Hatrackers know we are still here. We have a group of about five here now, and we exchange a chapter (more or less, of whatever work the writer chooses) each week rotating through the group, then over the week the others in the group perform ritual mutilation to it so that you can take your baby back home to bandage it up.

It is worth it, it forces you to face the flaws in your own work which might put off a potential reader if you're going e-publishing or an editor or agent when they see it.

We're open to more people, but it would really be great if that someone could consistently review other people's work in the week, and on their turn in rotation post promptly on Sundays or near about. So if you'd like to join, contact myself (enigmaticuser/Jesse) or one of the other regulars: MartinV, LDWriter2, axeminister, History.
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
So far I received two reviews for Arena chapter 3. It went out to five people so... put your back to it!
 
Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Please forgive me everyone. My life has been turmoil and I have been staggering through it. I must have some important lessons to learn otherwise I doubt it would been quite as difficult. The old saying "stuck between a rock and a hard place" seems very appropriate. I won't bore you with the details, but suffice it to say it has been hard and my writing has suffered to near nonexistence of late. I hope this group hasn't suffered too much in my absence, and I hope it will continue without much support from me.

Please continue to include me on the email list as I won't intrude and may find a moment to critique some of your work from time to time.
 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Mike, Life can get that way at times. Whatever is going on, my sympathies on being in that spot. I know it's hard. But coming out the other side many times is better. Not does you know what happens but Grace happens too.

The rock and hard place makes a nice title for a UF book though.
 


Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Take your time. We all have hard moments.
 
Posted by Wonderbus (Member # 9494) on :
 
Hi people,

Wow, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for! I see you're open to new members and I'd be really keen to join--the only problem I see is I'd hate to start critting someone's novel half way through the thing so I think if I can join that I'll be playing catch up for a little while though I reckon I'd soon be able to catch up with the crits.

As for my own novel; it's dark fantasy and I'm currently into chapter 7 (22 thousand words)
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I sent out my 3rd round yesterday. Let me know if it wasn't received.

Mike, it's no problem. Hopefully you can get the roller coaster to slow down a bit for a while.

Wonderbus. Maybe what you can do is simply read the first few chapters to get caught up, then crit only the newest chapter? That way you don't have a mountain of crits to climb. If that sounds OK we can throw you in the mix.

We're trying to max out at around 5k words on chapter exchange, so if you have 7 into 22 then that sounds OK.

Axe

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited May 02, 2011).]
 


Posted by Wonderbus (Member # 9494) on :
 
Thanks axeminster, sounds good. Everybody can feel free to send me their stuff whenever they like.

And if anybody does want some comments on earlier chapters that'll be no problem at all; just let me know when you send the chapters over.
 


Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
I'm up this week so I'll send over mine.
There's one tweak I want to put in, so it will be tomorrow.

I'll send out a global e-mail now to get everyone back in the loop.

Axe
 


Posted by MikeL (Member # 9138) on :
 
Thanks everyone,

LDWriter2, R&HP will not a title for another novel, but a title for a part of my story. My main character will be stuck in a mining prison...when he tries to escape he finds the prison is...in space. "Rock and a very hard place", any takers?

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited May 02, 2011).]
 


Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
MikeL, that actually sounds like an interesting story. Maybe the prison guards didn't even know they were inside a rock? Maybe it was like City of Ember and that was all they knew? So he's not just a free man, he's the only free man.
 
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
 
Fourth circle begins, it seems. I've already send the fourth chapter of Arena to you. If I forgot anyone, let me know.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
A good circle this one will be, even though we lost one member-hopefully temporally-we also gained one. I think each novel is a different species now... well, two fantasies but each one is a different type, I think.
 
Posted by enigmaticuser (Member # 9398) on :
 
Definitely different. All different, but all with growing depth. It's amazing how diverse imaginations can be.
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Most with "growing depth" but I want to make sure everyone knows I think this variety is a good thing... It is interesting.



 


Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Okay, it's been a while but I saw an interesting article that fitted with one of the novels in the ex novel exchange.

Sorry I can't recall who had which novel-- except for me and Dr. Bob-- I looked but either I skimmed too quickly or it isn't in here.

Saturday NIght Murders?

More than likely it's all figured out and finished but as I said this article fits. New York Times I think it was.

http://tinyurl.com/DNAbite
 
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
 
Louis,

Are you referring to my *Sunday Killer*?

Axe
 
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
 
Yes, that's the one.

Boy my memory is lousy on that one... Except for the parts I read.
 


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