Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Song of Ice and Fire

This is topic Song of Ice and Fire in forum Discussing Published Hooks & Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :

Okay. Two of the books found on my bookshelves when I did my inventory were the first two volumes of G.R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire. I started A Game of Thrones. So far I like it. But I'm a little worried about what I'm getting into.

There are already a lot of characters and the story skips around a lot. I'm far enough in to be reasonably certain that there isn't a real conclusion at the end of the first book. I checked his website, and it looks like he hasn't finished writing the series.

What am I getting myself into? I am not up for another Wheel-of-Time-esque epic with a cast of thousands that goes on forever and ever without ever resolving anything and leaves me hanging in mid air. Not.

Just how long is this series?

I'm already waiting for the next installment of Rothfuss' Chronicles of the King Killer. There's a limit to how much suspense I can stand.

[This message has been edited by Meredith (edited October 06, 2009).]

Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :

So far, there are 5 installments:
A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons. The original plan was for the story to span seven books, But the last two titles were one, divided roughly in half. He (George R. R. Martin)has brought in another author to help complete the commitment--as he's working on the new Wild Card series. It's worth the read. And HBO has the film rights, and an actor already picked for Tyrion.

Posted by Corky (Member # 2714) on :

After waiting years (or so it seemed) for the next Nine Princes in Amber book to come out (from Roger Zelazny), and having to reread the ones I'd already read when the next one did come out because it had taken so long (this was ages ago), I swore I was never going to read a series while the books were still coming out.

I haven't kept that (I read the Harry Potter books as they came out, for example), but it has kept me from reading some series, like this one and Jordan's Wheel of Time series. There are just too many other books out there to read.

Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :

quote:
After waiting years (or so it seemed) for the next Nine Princes in Amber book to come out (from Roger Zelazny), and having to reread the ones I'd already read when the next one did come out because it had taken so long (this was ages ago), I swore I was never going to read a series while the books were still coming out.
I haven't kept that (I read the Harry Potter books as they came out, for example), but it has kept me from reading some series, like this one and Jordan's Wheel of Time series. There are just too many other books out there to read.

See, this is mostly how I feel. I've already got two series hanging--Chronicles of the King Killer (Rothfuss) and Karavans (Roberson). I gave up on Wheel of Time because it just seemed to go on forever and nothing ever got resolved. In the end (about volume seven or eight), I just stopped caring about any of the characters anymore. I'm reluctant to get involved in another series that's going to do the same thing.

Frankly, if G.R.R. Martin isn't even enthusiastic enough about it to want to finish the series himself, that just makes me even more leery of it. As far as I've read, it's interesting. But there are a lot of interesting books out there.

Harry Potter was different. Oh, I waited for that last book and the resolution of the series. But each book did have it's own resolution (with the possible exception of Half-Blood Prince). It didn't just keep spinning into more characters and more complexity without even a small resolution here and there. So it wasn't so bad.

Posted by dee_boncci (Member # 2733) on :

All along, Martin has discussed the Fire and Ice in terms of a definite length/ending. Originally I belive he envisioned 5 books, but revised it to 6 (or 6 to 7). I think there are two remaining.

Now whether he'll ever get the next book done might be in doubt, as it's two-plus years in work, and he seems to spend a lot of time on his other projects, but I don't think there will be an endless saga like WoT.

Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :

This gets to one of my primary frustrations with the fantasy genre right now (and to a limited degree, sci-fi as well.) When I go to the library to check out the new shelf for fantasy/sci-fi, everything is "book 4 in a series..." and when reading the end papers it's clear that the forth book is far from the end.

Honestly, is nobody able to write a standalone novel anymore? Has everyone gotten greedy with the notion that once you build a following, you can ride a cash cow with sequels to sequels to sequels?

Just seems silly to me. I'd like to see more authors figure out a way to write a complete story in 100k words (another side vent: Honestly, 700 pages? Who has time for that kind of commitment? One of many reasons i prefer to read in the YA/mid-grade genre - I can finish 2 books/week!)

Just me, though.

Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :

I don't actually have a problem with a true sequel that stands alone. It's the series, which this one unfortunately appears to be, that leave you hanging at the end of a book with nothing resolved. It's alright if there's a larger story arc that isn't finished as long as there was an actual story--beginning, middle, and end--in this book. That's what I don't want to get involved in again and why I probably will put this book down and find somehting else.

If enough of us vote with our feet (wallets) and refuse to buy these endless series, maybe we'll see more novels that actually fit in one book. Or even three. Three, I can handle, as long as they're not strung out forever.

I don't care if it's long, as long as it's good. But I do care if it isn't actually a whole story.

I think I'll pass on this one for the time being. Maybe if the final books are actually written, I'll take another look. Not now.

Posted by monstewer (Member # 5883) on :

Read them. Even if he never finishes the series, just read the books anyway. Since reading these books, I've found it difficult to read any other fantasy book out there, there's just nothing that can come even close to the genius of this series.

With Jordan, I got the feeling that there was a lot of padding going on; this book feels like proper living, breathing history. So much so that the ending of each book feels complete in its own way and leaving you satisfied that you haven't been left on some contrived cliffhanger.

So, yeah, they're not bad.

Posted by Grant John (Member # 5993) on :

To compare three authors: Jordan, Martin and Hobb (who I read within the same period) I think that Martin is doing his saga in the least painful way possible. Wheel of Time was a book about a character Rand, which then seemed to want to become a book about the world, but every character (with a few exceptions) have to hang around for a final battle so their stories just become more and more separate but still included, it is telling when a book starts with three friends and actually has two volumes where one of the three never appears (happened at different stages to both Mat and Perrin for those who gave up early.)

Hobb did a trilogy of trilogies, so did have ends, but the ends never seemed complete (thus a forth trilogy now having begun.)

Martin is writing about a world (like someone said) it feels like history, and also characters stories start and end in very natural ways, they don't all hang around forever waiting to do 'their part' in a final battle against evil, so while the whole thing is still short of resolving (but shouldn't hit double digits) peoples stories do resolve, or evolve, they acheive things and if interesting enough go on to a new objective. The only reason waiting is painful is that it is so good.

Posted by guess (Member # 9085) on :

GRRM does not have the flowery prose that Robert Jordan has. He is also better at keeping up the plot. You won't see whole books where nothing happens. In a sense he is like Jordan, but less flowery and much darker.

Some of your favorite POV characters get whacked. He also adds new POV charcters in book 3 that add a new twist.

So in a sense it is like RJ with all the POVs, but he doesn't bog down. That being said, RJ didn't bog down in the first 4 books either and that is all that GRRM has written.

If you are worried about what you are getting into, these books are extremely violent and it has alot of explicit adult content. I like them, but it is not for everyone. The working title of the HBO series is "Sopranos in Middle Earth"