I had to borrow my dad's truck this weekend and the radio was tuned to the local country music station. I left it on that station for a while.
After a while I realized that several country songs do an incredible job of establishing setting in just a couple of lines. Examples:
Sold (The Grundy County Auction Incident) popularized by John Michael Montgomery
The Devil Went Down to Georgia popularized by The Charlie Daniels Band
Country Boys And Girls Gettin Down On The Farm popularized by Tim McGraw
An example not in the Country genre would be Hotel California popularized by The Eagles. But I'm having trouble thinking of examples outside of Country.
[ October 07, 2013, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: RyanB ]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
RyanB, do you have permission to quote these lyrics?
If not, this topic is terribly illegal.
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
No, I do not. But it looks like textbook Fair Use to me.
P.S. In case it's not clear, there are four different songs in the first group.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I understand that, but fair use doesn't apply to lyrics. And lyric copyright owners are absolute barracudas when it comes to quoting even one line of a song.
I'm sorry, but I am going to have to delete the lyrics.
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
*quickly searches Google*
I had no idea ...
Actually it's not correct to say "fair use doesn't apply to lyrics." It does. There is no exemption in the Fair Use doctrine for lyrics/poetry. But it was still probably wise to edit my post. I'll open a new topic to discuss.
P.S. I'll edit my post and just add some Titles as examples.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Thank you, RyanB. I appreciate your help with this.
There are stories of authors getting in lots of trouble when they quoted lyrics, and there are also stories of how much lyric owners have asked authors to pay for permission to quote lyrics--three-figure amounts at least.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
And you are correct, technically, that fair use does apply to lyrics, but as you pointed out elsewhere, almost any quote of lyrics would be such a relatively large percentage of the total work, that it would be a challenge to make a quote fit into the fair use conditions.
So, what I suppose I should have said was something more like "fair use doesn't help with lyrics."
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Licensing of lyrics use for commentary, in this circumstance method, intent, and meaning commentary about writing craft for no overt profit or personal gain might not cost a dime. The red tape is more tedius and complicated for lyrics licensing than for prose though. Though fair use does apply to lyrics use, it is by no means a blanket protection.
About the only way I know of that a writer can rely on fair use of lyrics without express consent is for scholarly purposes, Even that is not an absolute. In every case when I studied music lyrics in college, the course packs of lyrics were licensed copies. Citing from them in my response papers, though, didn't require consent. If I'd published them to any audience other than classmates and professors, I'd have needed prior consent.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
On the original subject---lyrics and copyrights and the dangers of quoting them having spilled out over several other topics elsewhere on the board---I'd say that the songwriters intend to tell a story, that they have a limited space and limited time to do so, and therefore must be concise, precise, and effective.
I can't, offhand, think of examples outside country, or its ancestor / cousin, folk music. Storytelling in a song being a time-honored practice in both fields, it's not surprising to find examples of it all over the place. But I'm sure some outside these fields are out there...somewhere...I just can't think of them.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Took me a few posts to catch on what had happened but even though not on purpose, this is a nice reminder of copyright.
But one question evidently you can play a very short segment of a song without permission--15 seconds or so--would you be able to quote what would be 15 seconds of the lyrics? Of course that wouldn't say much and probably not be worth it in most cases but the idea made me go hmm.
As to the subject, I think that is one of the things Country is known for and maybe why so many like it.
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
Thinking this over some more, I think southern/classic rock has a lot examples:
Give me three steps and What's your name by Lynyrd Skynyrd
Previously I mentioned Hotel California.
There's also several examples from traditional Christmas hymns: Silent Night, The First Noel and We Three Kings. But I wouldn't say there a significant percentage of regular Christian hymns that attempt to establish setting.
Posted by legolasgalactica (Member # 10087) on :
Several musicals have multiple songs, but again that's their job--to take you there via music and lyric. Les Miserables and Prince of Egypt slave songs are good examples.
Posted by legolasgalactica (Member # 10087) on :
I, for one, think its brilliant to look at the powerful shortcuts lyrics use to bring people into the music immediately. Not just setting, but POV, conflict, connecting with and pulling in the "reader" emotionally/intellectually, etc..
[ October 12, 2013, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: legolasgalactica ]
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
A song in a musical is (theoretically) there to advance the story it is in, rather than be a story in itself, as, say, the country single you just heard on the radio would be.
A Christmas carol would serve either one of two purposes. (1) To illuminate an aspect of a story already know to its audience, i. e. the Nativity or Birth of Christ. And (2) to celebrate the season of Christmas and the events thereof. (Possibly a third category, comedy songs about Christmas, might be considered, but far as I can see they fall into Categories One or Two.)
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
quote:Originally posted by legolasgalactica: I, for one, think its brilliant to look at the powerful shortcuts lyrics use to bring people into the music immediately. Not just setting, but POV, conflict, connecting with and pulling in the "reader" emotionally/intellectually, etc..
I agree. Another example, He Stopped Loving Her Today, is extremely powerful, a wonderful example of efficient conflict construction.
But Sold and Country Boys and Girls Gettin Down the Farm are merely silly ... if you're being generous. And yet they're wonderful examples of efficient setting construction.
I think songs that build conflict, emotion, connection, etc. will tend to get recognized as "great." But a silly song that builds setting will get overlooked. At least, that was the case for me.