This is topic Editing Challenge. in forum Writing Challenges at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Is it too soon? If it is too soon I can wait.

This challenge is not anonymous. This is a discussion challenge. The more you discuss, the more I think we can get from it. So here goes.

You have two hours to write a story. These two hours can begin at any point from today to the end of march, but you cannot spend more than two hours total finishing the story. As soon as your hours are up, send your rough drafts to me through email, and then post the first thirteen on the site.

When March ends and the stories are all up, I will send the stories out to everyone in anthology form. We read and make comments (on the site) about everyone's stories.

Then, you have a month to revise the story. Clean up the grammar, flesh out the details, start in the right place, whatever it takes. When the story is clean, send it to me again, and then I will send out first and final drafts to everyone to compare. At which point we vote for best story, and most improved.

Again, discussion is encouraged.

Rough drafts due: last day in March
Final drafts due: last day in April
Trigger: Price of Peace

Newbies and seasoned pros, you want to play?
~Sheena
shimiqua@gmail.com

Edited to make the trigger more noticeable.

[This message has been edited by shimiqua (edited March 09, 2010).]
 


Posted by Rhaythe (Member # 7857) on :
 
Just a thought:

Write a story in two hours. Writers are encouraged to be messy in their prose. Then, when April hits, writers are assigned a random story (not their own) to edit. This way no emotional attachment is generated to the original content. They make the changes and recommendations, and those edits are judged.

Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Rhaythe (edited March 09, 2010).]
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I want to play! OOh me me!

Do we get a trigger?
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
quote:
Do we get a trigger?

Interesting question. This will be tough to be sure a writer really took 2 hours to write.

Would you like each person that wants to play provide a trigger then they can be randomly assigned? That way when a writer is ready they can bug someone (this is teh weak part of this idea) for a trigger.

Edit to add...

oops. Just noticed the trigger in the first post

[This message has been edited by snapper (edited March 09, 2010).]
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Yay for discussion!

Rhaythe's idea is interesting, what do the rest of you think? I personally wonder if that takes away from the authors content. For example, If I wrote a weird story with sloppy prose(been known to happen) and Satate edits it into a nubula finalist, would I get the rights to it?

I think it is best to just edit your own, however if someone wants to, I have no issue if two people swap.

That's the good thing about discussion. Who ever talks gets to mold the challenge into whatever they want it to be.

I personally just want to peek over someones shoulder as they edit, see why they made the choices they made, see the thought process, etc.

 


Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
 
I think Rhaythe's idea would work in a classroom, but I like the idea that I could potentially walk away from any of our challenges with a nearly publishable story. I don't see how that would be manageable if it had two authors.

Either way I'm in. Lately I need motivation to write, for which both the trigger and competitiveness are invaluable.

(And thanks for volunteering, shimiqua)

[This message has been edited by BenM (edited March 09, 2010).]
 


Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
 
And while I hate double-posting, I have to ask: Do we get to plot out our story beforehand, and just spend the 2 hours writing? I assume so, but want to check.
 
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
One of the ways authors collaborate is for one to write the first draft, the other to edit it, then the first one edits it again (and possibly back and forth until they both like the results), though this usually works better with a novel where each author writes a different part of the first draft.

But maybe you would want to try that kind of collaboration in a different challenge.
 


Posted by Rhaythe (Member # 7857) on :
 
Would be interesting to enter a competition like this with a "partner".
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Yep, you can think it out before writing. If you need help with the trigger, a few interesting things have popped out at me. One, is the new essay by OSC where he talks about airport security, and how the need to be politically correct is distracting from security.

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2010-02-28.shtml

I think that concept could be expanded upon for a really interesting story.

And second, is a short story by Ursula K. Leguin, The Ones who walk away from Omelas, which is about a traveler who comes to this perfect place, and the cause for the peace is they torture a disabled boy. It's brilliant. Read it if you can find it.

Research, discussion, outlining, or brain storming does not count in the time. Unless you want it to.
~Sheena
shimiqua@gmail.com

 


Posted by Unwritten (Member # 7960) on :
 
Sigh. I guess I don't have enough writing projects, or maybe they're simply not pressing enough, or who knows what, because this sounds fun. So, anyway, I'm in.
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Start writing people. This is a rough, rough draft we're looking for. The crappier the first version the more chance you will win Most Improved.

Start writing!

When you are ready, send it here; shimiqua@gmail.com
~Sheena
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Is there a word count limit or just the time limit? So if I can write a 20,000 word story in two hours that is all cool?

(Of course I never could)
 


Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
 
Yeah I was thinking that too - I "can" type 90wpm, so I figured if I could rip out 11,000 words of pure nonsensical gibberish I might stand a chance at "most improved" to boot hehe. But more than likely I'll lay off the caffeine and plod along with something short. ;)
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Exactly. There is no limit to how long the stories can go except the time which it will take to finish them.

Happy writing!
~Sheena
 


Posted by billawaboy (Member # 8182) on :
 
I'm still a little vague on the challenge - er...um...what is the challenge? Write a full story in two hours?


 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
You are not alone. Wrote what I could in two hours. Nowhere near finished, but stayed within the rules...
 
Posted by RillSoji (Member # 1920) on :
 
Sounds like fun!
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Okay, I'll be precise. If it squashes your creativity blame those who want rules.

The challenge is to write a first draft of a story in two hours. This story should be inspired or based from the trigger, Price of Peace. It should be spec fiction, or at least that is what tends to play best to this audience. There isn't a length limit, though >2000 words will be the normal.

Only one entry per challenger.

Email entries when the first draft is finished to me @ shimiqua@gmail.com by the end of the month. I'll send out the stories to everyone's email and we do a brief and helpful crit (keeping in mind it's a first draft) Crits should be posted in the Editing Challenge First Thirteen post within a week or so of receiving the stories.

Then, using the crits, and the time you have from now until the end of April, you clean up the story until it is ready to be submitted, or the best you can possibly make it, and then send it back to me @ shimiqua@gmail.com. I send the clean versions around again, and we then vote on best story overall, and Most Improved. No crits this time, unless you really want to say something, at which case do it here.

You can comment on this post at anytime about your story, about others stories, about the process, about what changes you made...etc. Even why you decided to name your MC what you did,(Frank) or anything that comes to mind.

This challenge is about the process, more than the result. If it works out the way I want you should learn a lot about why people change a word, a structure, or perhaps even a main characters name (Frank).

Does that make sense? Any specific questions, please, feel more than free to ask.
~Sheena

[This message has been edited by shimiqua (edited March 22, 2010).]
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
(Frank)


 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Okay, okay. I'll change the name. Although, I think you might like the character. Truth is, I didn't want to waste all those valuable seconds thinking of one that fit.

Join in the fun, everybody. Feel free to use my name if it helps with your story.
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I was wondering if the story is too long should we include a synopsis? I was just thinking it might help with the crits if we knew where the story was going.

I am planning on entering. I guess I'm a bit of a procrastinator. I keep waiting for a good two hour span when I'm not too tired and when I won't get interrupted.
 


Posted by RillSoji (Member # 1920) on :
 
Oh I didn't know we were supposed to do it in one go. Heh. I got interrupted an hour and 15 minutes in so I 'paused' then came back and finished out my 45 minutes.

>.<
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Hey, it's cool. I don't care if it's broken up, just keep it to two hours total.
 
Posted by BenM (Member # 8329) on :
 
Cool... finding a single 2 hour block of time is next to impossible around this neck of the woods lately.
 
Posted by tngcas (Member # 8018) on :
 
Can I assume it isn't to late to jump in on this challenge?
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Come on in Tngcas, it'll be fun.

I assume we start discussing after the deadline?
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Everyone is welcome to play.
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Last week warning. If you want to play, send me your story by Thursday, and I will be sending the collection out on Friday.

Happy writing!
~Sheena
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
One last day to write. I'm sending out the collection on Friday morning Mountain time.

Remember this is a rough draft, so take and hour or two, and free write. See if you can get a story out of it.

Good luck,
~Sheena


 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Time's up. If you can get me your story in the next few minutes you have time to add it to the challenge, but if not...
Send me an email if you want me to wait for you.
~Sheena
 
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Life and Death by RillSoji
quote:
By the time someone found him he only hours from death itself.

Missing a ‘was’
quote:
Death itself was an experiment and some where not as reserved in their attitudes toward the living as Roland was.

‘where’ should be were.
quote:
It made his nauseous to think that he, who loved his beloved wife more than his own life, had killed his her

his her?
quote:
But he could not allow himself to subcomb to death.

succumb

Major issue for me: The story is one big info-dump. The narration is so distant that it almost reads like an encyclopedia entry. Try making this a more active story. I suggest you write next version in a 1st person POV than see what you got.


[This message has been edited by snapper (edited April 03, 2010).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Blue Light Special by Shimiqua

Funny draft. I am impressed considering you did this in an hour. Lots of potential. Needs lots of work though.
This premise needs a bit of added silliness. Think of ways in which you can exploit the similarities of our world with one involving supreme beings. Hopefully I can give you a few examples that you’ll find useful.

quote:
God stood in his heavens with a shopping list. He was a man (surprise) and he wore long white robes that piled up in lines on his arms as if the robes were made for someone larger. You think God would have a better tailor.

This opening paragraph needs a better mixture of divine superlatives mixed in with not so divine images. Remember, when you are talking about God, using capital letters in your pronouns can highlight the absurdity of the scene. If you want this to be about a deity shopping in a universal department store for a universe, really play it up.

God thumbed through His shopping list as He walked down the isle pushing His heavenly cart. Not the first time I saw Him in the store, but it was the one time when He wasn’t just window-shopping. His Holiness, (Yes, I said ‘his’ not ‘hers’. What else would you expect?) wore the same long white robes that He always wore, triple-thick bleached hooded cowl, layered in lines on His arms. As if they were made in a ‘one size fits all’ and for someone a lot larger than Himself. You would think He would have created a better tailor.

quote:
tinny music playing in the back ground Super-Walmart

Two suggestions for you here. Use emdashes…
tinny-music-playing-in-the-background-Super-Walmart
…and consider changing the name of the store to a more universal one, and how about a competitor? Big Bang Emporium, right across the street from Steady-State Supermarket.

quote:
Elephants came in a wrapping that looked like a sugar taffy, humans one tiny toy doll

Cut ‘a’ in front of the ‘sugar taffy’. Also change to ‘humans were tiny toy dolls’
quote:
When the cart (i.e. the earth)

consider changing ‘the earth’ to ‘planet’
quote:
He's not a bad man, God

change ‘man’ to ‘guy’
quote:
or open a can of you know what on my you know where

Emdashes
or open a can of you-know-what on my you-know-where

I could tweak your whole story I like the idea so much. But it is yours so…\
One thing I would like to see is more interaction between Harvey and God. Just like a kindly shopper would make with a supermarket cashier he meets once a week.

“Lovely nova today,” I say as I scan. “How did those dinosaurs you bought work out for your world?”
He shrugged and grunted. “Some kids threw an asteroid at my world, spoiled the great plan I spent 200 million years working on.”

Another suggestion for you; when God is putting things back that he can’t afford, make them mythological creatures. Fire breathing dragons, unicorns, centaurs…that kinda of thing.
Keep up the good work. Can’t wait to see the rewrite.




[This message has been edited by snapper (edited April 04, 2010).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Gods and Kings by satate
quote:
His father’s eyes looked down on him.

His father glared at him.

quote:
His father’s voice sounded inside his head and even in death his voice held that hint of cynicism.

got an echo with your ‘voice’. Divide that sentence.

His father said inside his head. Even in death his voice held that hint of cynicism.

quote:
Can’t you send an earthquake to the Empire’s capital, or famine, anything to draw them away.

Question Mark
quote:
Escaped strands of black hair framed her face. Even with dirt on her face she was a beauty and her brown shift couldn’t hide what was underneath. She curtsied.

You have a ‘her face’ echo. Change second sentence to something like…
Her beauty shined through even under the layers of dirt. Her brown shift couldn’t hide what was underneath.
Also, move ‘She curtsied’ to the beginning of the next paragraph.
quote:
If he had been free to choose his own wife he would choose her

Try…
If he had been free to choose his own wife, it would have been her
quote:
“Get out of my head father,” he said inside of his head.

Cut tag. You could axe ‘father’ as well.
quote:
He had no idea how to woe a woman and his own fiancé was supposed to be hear any day.

‘here
quote:
The sound of footsteps rang down the hall and Fenrich looked behind him to see Thane striding toward him with several papers in his arms.

Take out ‘and’ and make two sentences. ‘rang’ doesn’t sound correct. ‘echo’? Change ‘with several papers’ to ‘with a stack of papers’.
quote:
Stopping he waited as his advisor approached

cut
quote:
“You’re not going to let him get away with this?” Thane said.

This question is incomplete.

This draft is a bit overwritten, quite a few redundancies. You are missing several commas as well. You could cut 10 to 20 percent. Not at all sure where you are headed, which is a good thing (still an element of mystery). Keep up the good work.


 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Thanks Snapper.
My first drafts almost always have a lot of redundancies and I usually have to scale things back a bit too. I'm glad you can't yet see where it's going because once you know where a story is going then it can get boring, unless you love the character so much you don't care.

I'm going to get to some of the stories tonight.
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Life and Death by RillSoji

A sad story and I think it has the makings to be epic. I have to agree with Snapper though. The narration is incredibly distant. Everything is told and summarized and nothing is happening live. Perhaps this is how you write your first drafts. It reads a little like how I write my notes. Here are some comments from my reading.

"No one was quite sure if he choose that dreadful school of magic for evil or for power" - Who is no one? His friends, family, fellow school chums, the other death mages? Who else is in his life. Who wonders about this choice, his mother, his sister, his best friend? Be more specific and get more into his life.

"But now, his studies required a living human subject and it was possible they could die from it. That was a risk he was unwilling to take." - Why? The whole intro section talked about how he went into this evil field (without ever saying why)Surely he knew what went into being a death mage before going into it. Why would he choose this subject without being willing to do a little killing? What about this guy makes him want to be a death mage and yet at the same time not kill anyone. This is an interesting contradiction that could make for a good character.

"At first he experimented upon insects, and then animals. There were complications. With each step up the food chain, his experiment adapted" - How did the experiment adapt? What were the experiments? Show me an experiment? Does it involve spells or real knowledge of the body. Try having a scene where he does these experiments so I can see what it means that the experiment adapts.

I'll stop the commentary there. I wasn't expecting the ending and I like that. As I was reading it became obvious real early that Claire goes and saves Roland so I was glad that the story went beyond that. The other death mages seem like dunces though. You might want to put in how advanced Roland and Claire are in the beginning somewhere.

The biggest obstacle right now is the distant narrator. Trying first person like Snapper suggested might help. Also try writing in scenes and get into the head of your character. You have an interesting story with a cool altruistic death mage. He must be conflicted within himself. Show me his thoughts, his desires, his reasoning.
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Blue Light Special - Shimiqua

I just have to say that it was so cute. I loved it and laughed out loud at least once. (It was at the can of you know what you know where part) At first I wasn't sure what to tell you besides that it was good, but I think it missing something. I loved the voice but I think your main character need more. He's mysterious and I want to know more about him. Where does he live and how come he's so special to work at the God store? Right now the story is like a good candy you can pop into your mouth and enjoy but it needs something to go from a yummy quick dessert to something that is more sustaining. Maybe more conflict, maybe more dirt on the cashier. What are his desires? Does he envy the Gods? Where does he go when he's done with work or is he some sort of God creation and he lives at the store and has no outside life?

There is no strong conflict in the piece and perhaps that is what is holding it back. I'm not sure though. Definetly a good fun story.
 


Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
 
I am sending line edits to each author via email.

Here are my overall impressions:

Life & Death by RillSoji
This is a tale with no dialogue and little action as it is a told love story. I thought it a bit dull without real-time interaction. There are some issues with references. The worldbuilding was interesting, though

Blue Light Special by Shimiqua
A little rough in its current form. Part of the problem is calling a god "God" when there are others. The idea is very cute, but the "joining" thing didn't quite to it for me. I think it needs to be worked on for reader understanding.


A Burden of Purity by Snapper
Obviously more to come. The story is fine as far as it goes. The writing was engaging. The voice is enjoyable. Lots of little mistakes (intentional to get a good score? Hmmm)

Gods & Kings by Satate
Not really the end. I felt myself pulled into this tableau, but this story requires a great deal more scope in order to satisfy the reader. A few editing issues but mostly well written.

In the Fullness of Time by Brendan
The flashback strategy is a very ambitious plan. The character issue is very important as the alien/human confrontation is very well traveled ground. I think flashbacks in a short story are often problematic and are difficult to interleave well with the current story.


[This message has been edited by Owasm (edited April 06, 2010).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
In the Fullness of Time by Brendan

quote:
said President said

This will need to be fixed.
quote:
What affect would it have on my daughter?

‘effect’, I believe
quote:
I didn’t know I was so tense, he thought.

I’d cut. It would be unusual if he were relaxed. Tense is what any normal person would be going through, considering the extraordinary circumstances.

quote:
“We’ve learned more about their power in that last hour than we did since we were contacted, six months ago.”

consider changing ‘their power’ to ‘them’. It would encompass more.
On your notes
If you want to improve on the character development of this piece may I suggest you start at an earlier point of the story. A time before the aliens chose his daughter as their advocate.
Other things…
We need to know more about the mysterious vistors, a description of them and/or vessel?
You will need an antagonist, one of the president’s men that is opposed to it all. The negotiations, your MC’s conflict of interest, where the negotiations are held, what should and shouldn’t be said in your MC’s presence; just a general pessimistic prick. He/she could be the one that challenges your MC’s loyality.
Build on milieu, characters, settings… Your story may end up twice the size you are intending to pull what you want off.


 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
A Burden of Purity by Snapper

A fun story and I was drawn into it. The beginning though was hard to get into, too much of an infodump/summary. I was a little confused as to why she doesn't just, well, you know, do it and get it over with. It makes her character seem a little silly, unless she had a good reason, or has she never had the opportunity. I'm interested in seeing where this story goes.
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Owasm, what do you mean by the story needs more scope?
 
Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
 
More scope in this case means more beginning and more ending.

I felt the relationship with the servant girl could benefit from an earlier start to the story. As it is she is sort of thrown into it, doing her servant work in proximity to the young king.

But bear in mind, I was drawn into the story so that I wanted more of it.

As it is the story at this point ends as a hook. Will he enlist the old and the young? Will he defy convention and follow his heart? Will something happen in the war to turn everything on its head?

I think you need to answer those questions to satisfy the reader. As it stands, it meets the trigger, but now that you've done that you can complete your vision, whatever that is.
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Yes, it's unfinished. I'm about halfway through the story...I think. I like what Brendan did at the end of his story. I probably should have done something like that, adding a little summary and eventual goal.
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
In the Fullenss of Time by Brendan

I think the flashbacks are definetly risky but could be cool if you can pull it off.

I agree with Snapper about starting before the negotiations to show some prealien father/daughter relationship stuff. I'd like to know how the father and daughter stand before he's thrown in there with her. Were they close or distant. Did he even know she was consorting with the aliens? Did they ever argue about the aliens? Does she still live at home? Is she away at college? Is she married with five kids? All of these factors would create a different kind of relationship and dynamic with her father.

I also want to know more about these aliens. I was frustrated when the negotiations went from meeting his daughter and bascially saying hi to discussing what they don't know with the other guys.
 


Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
Life & Death by RillSoji

This reads like a synopsis for a novel, or perhaps a novelette. Fleshing this out to make a story that conforms to the current expectation of readers will probably make a longer story than this challenge is aiming at (although maybe not). So, are you doing a nano in April?

Plot-wise, have you considered a cute-meet at the start? This will get us tuned to the potential that this is a romance. Also, the key character draw-card is why does a death-mage have an issue with experimenting on people. So why does he have this qualm? Also, why do they continue to experiment after nearly dying? There needs to be a purpose behind it, or else I feel the mages are simply stupid since they do not learn from their mistakes.

Blue Light Special by Shimiqua

Well, where do you want to go from here? Do you want to keep it as flash (which works for me)? If so, it may need a trim, possibly cutting the paragraph focused entirely on the cashier (which is a complication rather than the main idea). If you want to explore the idea further, as satate said, it needs a stronger conflict – the idea alone won’t sustain a longer story. Perhaps some conflict between the cashier and God. Also, I wonder, does the invisible bunny have horns?

There are a couple of places where you imply that you aren’t allowed to say certain things. They are great, funny lines, but they do draw the attention to the material that preceded them. You probably need to show us why those pieces of information were so important that you couldn’t help but tell us. Otherwise we could be holding them in memory as important pieces of the plot, only to feel they are unresolved at the end.

A Burden of Purity by Snapper

Some really funny bits in this one. I loved the GPS. And the broom – I initially thought that he was implying that Sheena was a witch.

Obviously the story isn’t finished yet, so I can’t really comment about the plot. However, I am still somewhat confused as to why virginity is so useful yet not – for the other people, not for Sheena. The reasons for the “inability to capitalize on Sheena’s purity” (and perhaps the “disappointment” after rescue) seemed withheld from the reader. This was a key driver to the story, and withholding this may turn readers off.

Gods and Kings by satate

I did enjoy this. It has some good ideas and enough familiarity too. I am not sure about the romance side of it – if a king is distracted by romance at the key time of dealing with a major calamity such as war, then is he really fit to be king? And to me, the main focus was the war. If he is outnumbered 5 to 1, doubling the size of the army, particularly with sub-standard troops, isn’t going to do much. I may have missed it, but I don’t have any sense of why the war was started or why they don’t attempt to surrender and the king simply escape. These are important points to help understand why the allies don’t automatically join and why they believe they can negotiate their way out of this threat to them.

By the way, was this a Freudian slip? “He had no idea how to woe a woman”

The Fugitive Princess by Owasm

Ok, got back to this. The writing style of this was quite fine - clear and well paced. However, there were some key story elements which I thought severely weakened the story. I found the Brull's history as a great warrior/hunter was quite inconsistent with his actions of getting drunk just before attacking the camp. His character, as demonstrated by his early sleuthing and strong reputation, would be much more careful. His blundering therefore just didn't ring true. Furthermore, when he was invisible, why didn't he simply kill Porto? It would have been much easier than revealing himself to be attacked.

Secondly, the kidnapping party did a number of plain silly things - left Brull alive (given his reputation), didn't find his horse (just 50 yards away) or take it, attacked with a lightning attack, instead of the originally effective air wall spell. Nor did any of the men attack Brull from behind, rather they wasted time listening to conversation, letting Porto face Brull alone.

Finally, the last section about the price of peace seemed tacked on. While it is a good (although well covered) concept, it needs significantly more focus right throughout the story. Otherwise, it won't produce any real payload at the end. As it is, the focus is on explaining the dual magic systems, with little about peace, war or politics.

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited April 08, 2010).]
 


Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
In the Fullness of Time

Snapper - Thanks. The antagonistic president aide is a great thought. I am wondering whether I have too many people in the group (realistic size but too many for a story). Having a single antagonist, an information giver and a leader is perhaps all I need, apart from Henry. What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Starting earlier is something I am considering, at least at the point where she is chosen as a advocate rather than already being one. FYI, the aliens have only made contact, they are not there is any physical form, although they certainly have the ability to manipulate matter in the solar system. They are still very much a mystery.

Satate - some great character questions that I will have to interleave into the story. FYI, Anna is early career and single, therefore in the most free to choose stage in her life.


[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited April 07, 2010).]
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I am going to send everyone a kind of synopsis, like what Brendan did, so that I can more easily discuss the story.
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
"By the way, was this a Freudian slip? “He had no idea how to woe a woman”

Lol, no, a typo, well at least I think it was.
 


Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
Satate

A couple of questions. What is the Empire General's role in the Empire? Is it as supreme ruler, or just a general? What are his ambitions? How do these differ to the Empire's ambitions?

If the general is to be such a pivotal element to the resolution of the story, it needs direct contact with him at a much earlier stage in the story. We need to know what we are up against. A scene from his point of view, or an early scene where negotiations are made that tries to avert the war before it becomes obvious who is winning, could work.

Also, for an invading force, being able to protect the supply is the real issue. What is Fenrick trying to do to upset the supply of the army from the Empire? Why is he trying to pit poorly equipped soldiers in pitch battle, rather than fight a guerrilla style war?
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Thanks Brendan those are some good points.

The General is the man who is directing the Empire's war in that part of the region. He is simply the one who accepts Fenrich's surrender because the empress is not present.

A little backstory I did not put in simply because I didn't think the story needed it, but I see the Empire similar to the Roman Empire. They attack because of two reasons, 1 - they want to extend their influence and borders as far as possible, and 2 - because they see Fenrich and his God/King family as a threat and something they'd like to control. The Empire is massive and has more than one front. Fenrich's little kingdom is just one of many they are trying to gobble up. The Empress isn't present because there's a lot going on and she trusts her generals to carry out most of the war. So it is to the general that he surrenders.

I'm not sure that he is a very important character. He doesn't really need to be there. I could just end it with Fenrich walking toward the opposing army.

Disrupting the supply lines is a good idea though. My idea bank was running dry when I was thinking of ways Fenrich is fighting back. I will incorporate more guerilla style warfare and have him try to disrupt supply lines. Maybe he'll try some surprise tactic. He loses though.
 


Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
Just a little expansion on guerrilla tactics to give you some ideas, and then some questions.

The value of guerrilla tactics in the current situation is the following (and Fenrick's father would know this). You attack weak points that cause high damage. You go in, attack and run away, having planned an escape. You can get temporary number superiority at the locations of attack, increasing your odds of winning the skirmish. You have home ground advantage, knowing the terraine. Very importantly, you can blood (and teach) new recruits, getting them to learn to trust their team members and leaders despite injuries etc, making them battle hardened very quickly. The opposition needs to protect their supply lines, which means dispersing troops along that line, thus reducing them from the frontal attack. The fear caused by days and weeks of potential attacks can cause bad decisions to be made during main battles. Despite this, it is a rare war that is won by guerilla tactics, although some spectacular examples do exist. The reason is usually there is some jugular that the enemy can attack that changes it from a guerilla war to a mopping up operation, where the enemy can establish a self sustaining base.

Now for the questions. I am fascinated in how the godlike powers could be used in battle. Do they work best on concentrated troops (thus making value for pitched battles)? How can they be integrated into guerilla tactics? What is it about them that the Empire sees as such a threat? And how do they plan to make use of them/capture the ability? Or do they simply want to eliminate it?

How does Fenrick's surrender give a sense of accomplishment to the story? Why wouldn't he just escape? Why wouldn't the generals of his army do all they can for him to escape (even if he wants to do the noble thing)? They would, even more than the Empire, know the value of his abilities and have schemes in place to keep him away from the enemy. Can Fenrick have many children that all share the powers?
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Yes the Godlike powers would work best in concentrated troops. They mostly include power of weather and some earthquake type things. Though the crops in Fenrich's kingdom grow exceedingly well and there are no disease breakouts. Also the Godkings can see everything that goes on in the kingdom and so there are no surprise attacks or secret groups that the Godking isn't aware of. They are limited in how much lightning they can do though and they can't just do a huge earthquake since that would devastate not just the army but the entire surrounding countryside. What they have employed is a constant heavy thunderstorm with strong winds over the enemy with intermittent lightning strikes and occasional earth rumbles usually at key points of the battle.

Using the powers in guerilla tactics would be difficult since these powers aren't good at locating specific spots and are more broad. They could be used though as a distraction, such as sudden heavy lightning or earthquake while the army goes for an important supply line.

The Empire is scared of what they don't know and can't control. They want either to have the power or eliminate it. They don't realize they wouldn't be able to control it until they had at least one heir dead who was loyal to their cause. Fenrich wouldn't use the powers on behalf of the Empire.

Fenrich's surrender is the price of peace. It's how he saves his people from death and constant warfare. He can't just escape because the Empire will continue the war until he is captured. It says it in the surrender treaty they give him. They want Fenrich preferably alive because the Empress wants a child by him though I don't get into that in this story. The powers are controlled by the most recently deceased King. So right now it is controlled by Fenrich's father. When Fenrich dies he will control the power and be able watch and communicate with any children that he has. He can have many children but only the dead control the power. If there are no heirs then the powers die.

Thanks for your questions Brendan.

[This message has been edited by satate (edited April 08, 2010).]
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
The Fugitive Princess by Owasm

I thought this was a fun story. I liked how Brull didn't do to well on his first attempt and was overconfident. The description of how the sword of spells worked was good too. I didn't love any of the characters though. Brull seemed to be a bit of a brute with his drinking and arrogance. The princess seemed like a ditz and the wizard was just evil. I do like how they lose a bit of their soul with each spell. I feel like this story needs more, maybe something driving it more. I actually think the princess's POV might be more interesting. She's the one with the most to lose and goes through the most change. Her story is the one packed with the most drama. Brull is just out doing his job, an exciting job, but still, just another day on the job, where as the princess is coming to terms with her life and her role in it.
 


Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
Satate

That is an impressive array of powers. It would work well for defeating an army like that, even one with overwhealming odds. Perhaps you could have them win the battle, defeat the invading army by using the ragtag new recruits (having now changed battle plan to that of guerilla tactics and finally a decisive battle against a demoralised enemy at the place of your choosing) only to have a bigger army pour over the border. That way you could have your feel good, protagonist grow to take control of the situation, storyline, but still have him have to surrender at the end.

Some tactics could include induced mudslides at passes through hills (have the army dig weak points into the hills), lightning induced bushfires and grass fires, constant energy-sapping slogging through mud, flash floods when part way across a river ford (followed by a skirmish with the forward enemy troops). Perhaps the entire army could cross the river, only for their food wagons to be halted by the flood. And then there is the psychological warfare, sending the odd incendairy pig into their ranks (poisoned, off course), bamboo growth that creates a maze - making them think its a trap, and the sudden growing in size of venus fly traps to mansized monsters. (Sorry, I'm getting too way out with that last one.)
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Brendan,

I think cutting supply lines are not as effective in a medeivel society as they would be now. Most armies at the time lived off the land and ammunition isn't as important. A war liek the one Satate describes would be more of a beating the enemy into submission. For the Empire to win they need to severer the head of the beast (so to speak).
If the MC's kingdom has magic it would be logical the other kingdom would as well. Your tactics are sound but I could visualize teh Empire using wizards to counteract much of whta you suggested.
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
The Fugitive Princess by Owasm
quote:
The sun began to smudge the horizon as Brull pulled up at a clearing that had obviously been used as a campsite before.

Not sure about the smudging horizon. In any case, the sentence needs simplified.
The fading sunlight smudged the horizon in orange when Brull found the abandoned campsite.
quote:
Thank the Gods, he thought, I didn't bust my butt all night following the princess and those who took her from the King for nothing. I can't wait to catch up with them.

This sounds like the people that took the princess bought her in a blue-light special. This needs commas at the very least. I suggest rewording it.
quote:
Brull gave himself a crooked grin

try…
Brull smiled a crooked grin
quote:
He pulled out his sword and put his helmet on. It was polished to a mirror-like finish and had a long blond tail attached to the top, the hair of a former bounty catch.

The sword has a blond pony tail?
quote:
Well, I use a different kind of magic that Porto.

Did you mean ‘than’?

Liked the ideas you have for this magical world -- souls used as fuel for magic, a sword that is a defense against spells, aeromancers -- good stuff. The dialog needs work. Not one person in this story comes off as bright. I think you could do without Proto’s men. They add nothing.
I think you could fix most of the problems with this piece if you rewrote this in a 1st person POV. The one you have now is too distant and lends to a tendency for you to tell what is happening instead of showing it.



 


Posted by Owasm (Member # 8501) on :
 
Thanks for the comments, snapper. I've written seven Brull stories. The bit of drunkeness was to take off some of the edge so he could get captured.

The box of air that Brull found himself in would be a death sentence for just about anyone else. I'll have to make that more clear.

The idea that the henchmen can go is a great one. I also need to spend more words to get more character into the piece. 2,000 words just wasn't enough to get the arc complete and spend enough time with the characters.

I'll give a first person POV a try and see how it goes. If it's the princess, getting the worldbuilding explained will be more difficult, but she really is the focal character.

Lots to think about. Thanks.
 


Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
Sheena, when are you going to enter the fray?
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Sorry. Last Monday I went to the library and returned with way too many books that took over my life. I get in these reading kicks and I can't do much of anything else. I'm really sorry.

Okay.

Snapper - a burden of purity. Because you gave the character my name I had a stronger immersion than I expected to, and because if this I had some thoughts on her character. First off, what is the whole burden of purity thing all about. I don't think that was explained well enough. I want there to be a reason she has a gift of purity. Did a fairy give it to her when she was born? Also when the girl calls her a B**** she should get more offended.
What is the cost to her if she was to lose her purity? What makes her more pure than any other maiden girl?
Your line, "Sheena bristled by his compliment but wasn’t..." made me think she was physically punished magically whenever she thought about taking a step closer to losing her purity. I think that is an interesting idea you might want to explore. I really like the story, though the beginning seems to be more telly than I usually like, and do think it has promise. Just add more weight to the cost.

RillSoji-Life and Death. I like this concept a lot. It feels to me though to be a synopsis of a novel more than a story. I agree with the others, dig in deeper. Show us more. What does the line, "She longed to learn more and become more adept at her chosen school of magic.", look like? How do they dress? What does the land smell like? I suggest beginning when they first meet each other and Clair heals Roland. You can always add their motivations, and longings through their actions, and though how others treat them. Just a suggestion, good luck with it.

Satate - Gods and Kings I think this one is my favorite. I love Fenrich. He is such a sympathetic character, this king who has to lead his army to defeat, and can't think of a way to stop it. I love how his father can talk to him and the subtle way you told us that. I do think the relationship between Fenrich and Elizabeth could be developed more. If she could just talk once, and show she is a match for him, then I would believe that relationship better. I suggest giving them some word play before Thane interrupts them. I think the stronger you make the relationship, the more powerful the ending will be, because it's not just a child and an heir that he would leave behind, but a family. Also I would suggest at the end adding a scene where the child enters into the temple room, and Fenrich has a chance to talk with him.

Brendan- In the Fullness of Time. I really like the concept on this one and look forward to reading it when you finish. Some things you want to think about when writing the relationship with the daughter is about their history. What kind of a dad was he? What is the mother like? Are the parents still together, and if not, what influence would that have on the daughter, and how the father treats his daughter? What does Henry feel guilty about in relationship to his daughter? What need does the aliens fulfill for Anna? What is something that only Anna and Henry know, and she could keep from the aliens to make sure she is still human? Is Anna afraid? If you show these things in the flashbacks, then the need for characterization will be met. Maybe you could use the flashbacks in a more clear way, like maybe the aliens could read his thoughts through Anna. If you make the flashbacks come in a violent way then there will be no confusing the story. And what if every time the Aliens suck a memory from Henry, Anna loses a bit of her functioning. Oh that's an interesting idea.

Owasm - The fugitive princess. It doesn't surprise me that you have the highest word count, Mr Speed Demon. Are you planning on trying to publish all the Brull stories in like a novel as a collection? I find Brull really interesting, what with his drinking and his loss of power, and loyalty. In this story I think you need to add more descriptions, more visual clues to what people are thinking to explain their actions. The story has promise, but it seems open ended, and a bit muddy. I think some clarification would help. Also it made me wonder if the princess would fall for him on the way back to the kingdom. I think Brull could shut that idea down with one sentence, and it might help, if that is where you are going, to end the story.

~Sheena
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Thanks Sheena,
I think your right about Elizabeth. Her character actually bothered me for days after I wrote it. Your post made me think more about her though and I think I know who she is now.
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Aach! Only eleven days left to finish and edit my story. I feel like there's still so much to do.
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
I'm really hating my story right now. I added a lot of really funny jokes, but now it is not making sense, so the jokes aren't even funny.

Oh death to this story. Second drafts suck.

~Sheena
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Sheena,

If you have a really funny joke, do all you can to make your story fit around it. Your piece is a fantasy humor. It does need to make sense but a laugh is worth a 1000 words
 


Posted by RillSoji (Member # 1920) on :
 
My humblest apologies to all the participants. I'm going to have to withdraw from this challenge. I'm sure you know how life goes. >.< Good luck to everyone!
 
Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Bummer, RillSoji. Good luck on the story.

On my story, I think I've added all the humor that it needs, and now need to work on clarifying, clarifying, and clarifying.

But it is still making me laugh. I'm excited for you all to read some of the new stuff. Thank you all for your comments. I've used something from each of your comments.

Happy revising!
~Sheena


 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
How's it going for everyone?? Still working on mine.
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I'm still finishing mine and I'm getting nervous because I still want to go back over it and edit it too. I was feeling rather uninspired and only got in a hundred words yesterday but today I had to drive 45 minutes to a reception and now I am feeling better about the whole thing.

How about everyone else?
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Just reached the end of mine. I need to give it a day or two and read it again, editing and reworking.

Do we repost the new 13 lines? Are we voting for our favorites again? Will I win by default or are the rest of you still in the game?
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Yes, repost the new thirteen under the old thirteen.

Running this has given me a new appreciation for skadder and every one else who runs these things. It is a lot harder than I thought. Sorry everyone for my lack of clarity in running this. I've learned that, just like I am in my writing, I'm good at idea's, and bad at execution.

Anyway edit your original thirteen post and add you new thirteen. We can comment on the thirteen, but we're not voting. As soon as you are finished with your edit send your story to me through email, and when I've got everyones, I'll send the new versions around. Just vote for your favorite not top three.

My story is finished, Owasm already sent me his new version, and Frank and Sara look like they are about finished. The deadline is the thirtieth, but if you need an extension, Frank or Sara, email me, and I am happy to oblige.

Thanks for your patience with me.
~Sheena

 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Thanks for doing this Sheena. It's been a lot of fun. I like the whole discussion aspect.

I'm still furiously trying to finish mine and I'll try to have it done by the thirtieth even if I have to stay up all night.
 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
Brendan, how is your story coming?
~Sheena
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I finished my story.
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Are we waiting for anyone? You got mine right Sheena?
 
Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :
 
Sorry, work has gotten in the way, and I am a long way from finishing. It looks like I will have to withdraw (although if any wants an extra pair of eyes to look over theirs...)

Still, I am really enjoyed this challenge, and received a lot of great help throughout. And I will finish the story when work gets back to normal.


 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
I'm sending out the collection for everyone to read right now. There are four completed stories for voting. Critiquing and voting info is in the email, which will come around shortly.

Thanks guys for playing with me.
~Sheena
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I guess I get to be first.

Most improved story - A Burden of Purity by Snapper
I really like the changes you made in it and having it completed helps a lot too. I thought it was funny. I love how you made unicorns dumb. The main character was good too. I just really liked it overall and any issues that I had with the first one were resolved and it ended up a really strong story. I envy your ability to edit. Oh, and no fair using my screen name.

I would publish - A Burden of Purity by Snapper
Mostly for the reasons stated above and I thought it was the best overall.


Blue Light Special by Shimiqua
I liked the first draft of this story and I still like it. I liked the anger management joke and I like that you took out the invisible bunny joke. I think the story is smoother and better, but just in small ways. I didn't vote for it in most improved because it doesn't seem that different, but then maybe it didn't need a big overhaul.

Princess on the Lam
I like the princess point of view but I don't think you took full advantage of it. Her character was still a little weak. I think delving more into her thoughts really protraying the story through her unique attitude would help. I may help to write a scene in first person as an exercise just to flesh out her voice personality. The dialog didn't always sound natural either. I think the story arc works better with the princess as the POV but I think you are more comfortable writing in Brull's POV.
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Gods and Kings by satate Most Improved

Liked the idea you have here. I think this still needs some trimming and reworking but I do like the story. I suggest you really sell to the reader that Fenrich's army is going to defeat the empire in teh battle. That may require a deeper plan.
The shock of seeing Fenrich's forces defeated just might be the thing that will make that twist to work.


Princess on the Lam by Owasm Biggest Change

Quite a shift in tactics, completely change the MC of the story. I agree with Satate on this one, especially the first person POV. I really like the Sword of Spells in the story.


Blue Light Special by Shimiqua My choice

How could I not pick this one? Of course, I am partial to humor and this one was funny. Loved the story. Congrats, you have earned a spot in the pages of Speculative Snapper. It pays 1/1000th of a cent a word.

A Burden of Purity

Can't this guy think of his own names to use? And why did he leave Owasm out? Poor guy.


 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
God's and Kings - most improved. I really liked this story, the fantasy concept felt original, and I just ached for Fenrick. The relationship with Elizabeth seemed much better, but felt a bit too informal at the beginning. Overall, the story felt satisfying, however, I wonder if this is a prologue to a great novel. Fenrick's child would grow up outside of the kingdom, with a sibling, in an evil empire. He (or she, make it a she!) wouldn't know that they were royalty, or that they could hear voices, or have the help of their father (who just happens to be a god and could make lightning and earthquakes to help them overthrow the evil Empire, and bring justice and closer to Fenricks death.)Just add a love interest and you got a winner. There is just to much coolness to stop here. But that is just my opinion. Great job!

Burden of Purity. my choice. I would pick this one because I'm a vain person and I like to see my name in print. I noticed, Frank, you too have the same weakness. Actually I just really liked this one, I like the relationship of the heroine and the eye slit dude. And Munchum is so obnoxious, that she took the turn into likable. (although I don't mind at all she gets her come-up-ance.) It's just all around good.

Princess on the Lamb- I think you need to change the princess's name. Princess Jasmine, doesn't work for me, I think I was raised on Disney video's. Also I thought that Brull won too quickly and easily. He seems a bit too powerful for me to root for, but then again I like an underdog. I do really like how you showed the aramancors love spell over Jasmine, but I think I actually liked the story in Brull's perspective better.

Good Job everyone, Most of you sent me crits for everyones stories, and I will email them around to you today.
~Sheena


 


Posted by shimiqua (Member # 7760) on :
 
(sent through email)
Owasm's Vote:

Most Improved Story: I can't vote for snapper's because he didn't really have much of one top start. I think the one that was most improved was God & Kings. She had to changed the story arc to make the relationship with the peasant girl weave better in the story. It gained a bit of weight, but I think it the most improved.

The Story I Would Publish Vote: I liked the voice and humor of A Burden of Purity. It had a good story arc, although the ending is perhaps prematurely drawn. I wasn't a fan of the Michael Jackson part (peace be upon him), it was a bit too close, but I'm a sucker for satire.


Final tally of Votes.

Most Improved Story
Burden of Purity one vote
God's and Kings three votes.

Most Improved Story- God's and Kings by satate

Story I'd publish
Burden of Purity three votes
Blue light special one vote

story that would be published - Burden of Purity by snapper

This was fun, congrats to the winners, and thank you everyone who played.
~Sheena

[This message has been edited by shimiqua (edited May 10, 2010).]
 


Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
 
Thanks everyone. Great stories by everyone. I am honored that you would pick mine the best. So encouraged was I that I submitted it to 'Swords and Sorceress'. Got a rejection in less than a day, Harumph!
 
Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
Thanks everyone, this was fun and I liked all the stories.

Sheena, I do want to expand the story into a novel, after I get the short story a little cleaner. I'm going to try and do what Snapper said and cut 500 words and I like the idea of letting there be a greater chance that they will win the battle.
 




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