posted
SPOILER ALERT POST HUMOUSLY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN X2 OR HAVE NOT READ OSC's MAY 12TH ARTICLE ON THIS WEBSITE Read no furthur without risk of wailing and gnashing your teeth at the mercy of your own misery.
(is that better? read below for clarity)
ALSO: apologies to those who I did spoil the plot for, but OSC didn't put a spoiler warning in HIS article and I don't see any tomato throwing at HIM. But then again, he is OSC.
Being a HUGE X-men fan, I found X2 to be quite an enjoyable movie. I read OSC's review and completely understood his frustration with the "death" of Jean Gray, but was still disappointed.
Jean Gray had to leave the ship and repel the raging floodwaters because she knew that the effort required would complete her transformation into "the phoenix". Charles Xavier hinted that Jean continually seemed to hold back when using her extra-sensory powers, and subconciously, she must have known that usage of her full potential would cause this change. However, Jean was finally in a position where she could not contain the change taking place within her.
This is why the scene played over the floodwaters and hinted at a winged, flaming apparition under the water. It is Jean Gray undergoing her metamorphasis.
This takes us into the third movie very nicely, because The Phoenix can completely whoop all the mutants with her Awesome Power.
posted
Maybe so, for folks who know the comic book history.
From the internal logic of the movie, though, the whole scene seemed rather pointlessly added on. There was no established reason Jean Grey couldn't have stopped the flood from within the plane, Storm evaporated it or Iceboy (I forget his name) frozen it. Nor did Grey's death further any of the plot conflicts in the film that I understood.
Other than that scene, however, I enjoyed the movie a great deal.
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posted
Of course, the same might be true for the LOTR films. Since I am a Tolkien fan (although a mere tyro next to some on this forum) I can't judge.
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Did it dawn on you that people may not have seen X2 yet, and you just spoiled something very important?
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Yeah, that was pretty rude...the article just said "a hero" was killed... I knew she died in the comics in order to transform to Phoenix, but (since the timeline's thrown out anyway) I didn't know it was gonna happen in the end of this movie.
Y'know, there's a reason most people put some variation of the word SPOILERS in the title of articles...
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quote:This is why the scene played over the floodwaters and hinted at a winged, flaming apparition under the water. It is Jean Gray undergoing her metamorphasis.
Under the water? I figure that it was a reflection...
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posted
If you haven't figured it out yet: **********SPOILER ALEART***********
As far as i can figure she was under the waterand we saw ripple like when a boat moves over water I may be wrong though.
The reson Iceman couldn't have frozen it is it would have requried a lota control to freez it and keep the rushing water from ripping his ice to shreds plus his power workes best in warm humid places(which most ppl wouldn't know). There was plent of water but it was already cold so he would have had trouble cooling it more.
As for Storm her trying to evaporate that much water would be like her trying to evaperate a lake in seconds(which is what it was).
The reson Jean didn't stay in the plane was proly so she could focus on the water rater then haveing the motion screw up her consintaration(it's better one dies then all )
And finaly the reson it happend the way it did was so they could set up to have the next(or atleast a later) movie to have the Phoenix appare.
On a side qustion did anyone else notice Best(he was hidden)?
Well thats all and sorry for any spellinf errors.
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posted
You took the time to apologize for the spelling errors, but not to fix them? Something seems flawed there, and it smells like Moses!
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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okay, yes it may not make sense to people RIGHT NOW that aren't huge comic fans, but it will all come together during X3. THEN you'll understand the point of that scene. sometimes they do that in trilogies, you know? fill in the blanks, show the twists, add to the story?
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dspeyer: I agree that the plot borrows from elements that may not be understood by the uninitiated moviegoer, a al LOTR. Anyone who has read the LOTR books understands all the nuances of the films. But keep in mind that the X-Men universe has thousands of comics to borrow plots from, and the movie has done a nice job in presenting elements of the best ones.
Alai: sorry. see comments in my new SPOILER WARNING.
Matt: sorry. ditto.
Wendy: sorry. (tatoos the word "spoiler" on his forehead in red ink)
Abyss: could be a reflection. The point of this whole post was that whatever transformation Jean is undergoing, IT CAN'T BE DONE IN THE HULL OF THE BLACKBIRD (the jet they fly in)!
Wiggin: Your efforts to explain to other Hatrackers why their suggestions to the plot would not work was admirable, but futile. Comic book fans understand the little nuances of the plot. Those looking for logic to play out within the plot of a single movie are not taking into account the other thousand plots that have been written. This is case of Jean Gray transforming into The Phoenix.
Primal Curve: While I am ranting, your post adds nothing to an already off-topic thread. I'm just glad someone is thinking in the spirit of the thread. Whether they can spell or not is not relevant to get a point across.
Finally like an angel, Porcelain Girl anwsers my call for some support and describes very nicely what I am ranting about. Thank You!
So summarize, Ebert of the Sun Times did a wonderful review of Matrix: Reloaded. He confessed to loving the movie, quirks and all and knew that the plot delved deeper than he cared to know about. But he was OK with that and simply judged the movie at face value with the understanding that MEGAFANS of the series would undoubtably gain more from this installment than he would. He did not JUDGE the movie on the information presented on that film alone. He gave creative license where it was due. That was commendable!
posted
I think this is the one time I'll say it's unfortunate that OSC went ahead and made that judgment on Jean Grey's death. I'm sure he probably didn't know that it was necessary for her transformation to the Phoenix. Every X-Men fan undoubtedly knew what was coming, and was certainly assured when the phoenix image appeared in the water. Not just the second movie, but from the first movie one of my questions had always been, "So, at what point is Jean Grey going to die?"
You are so right that fans of X-Men knew what was coming as soon as Jean Grey's eyes started flaring orange. I got a lump in my throat personally.
But the gist of what I have learned from whining in this thread is that I was disappointed that OSC was not a bigger X-Men fan. I do not blame him and I mean no malice towards him either.
I now realize that OSC was not alone in trying to rationalize why Jean Grey performed a PERCEIVED unneccessary act of self-sacrifice. All the X-maniacs were sitting in their seats squirming in anticipation of X3, because The Phoenix saga is such a GREAT storyline.
Unbelievers beware and rejoice. With the dawning of X3 you will become aware. And you will truly quake at the site of The Phoenix.
P.S. I apologize for the whining. Hatrackers are probably the coolest group on the planet, next to the ficticious posse from Buckaroo Banzai. Thanks for being tolerant. I am buying a house and my wife is driving me crazy(er).
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posted
The thing about the spelling is I was tired and didn't feel like fixing it then and now i'm to lazy to and don't want to so to bad.(not trying to be mean..... or atleast not very) Posts: 397 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Actually, there was a non-Phoenix reason for her to leave the plane. It was set up in the movie, but not sufficiently emphasized at the end.
***********SPOILERS****************
At the beginning of the movie, when her power goes out of control in the food courts, it clearly upsets all the elctronics in the room. The TVs go haywire, the speaker system squawks, etc.
At the end, when she starts to use her powers, the electronics of the Blackbird start sparking and acting up, and it isn't until she leaves the jet that they start working. I'm guessing she realized this, and left the jet so they could get out in case she couldn't stop the water after all. This seemed obvious to me in the theater, but after talking to friends and others it looks as though the director didn't show it clearly enough.
Movies based on comics have to be careful of this sort of thing. It isn't enough that comics fans know that she "had" to make the sacrifice. It has to make sense to the non-fan as well, or it looks fake and tacked on. Events can't happen simply because the future plots requires them, they have to be natural outgrowths of the past and present events.
[ May 26, 2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
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wow, that is what we called my friend chris a.k.a. Ninja Vanish after he grew out a full mustache and goatee.
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posted
*****spoiler***** another non-phoenix reson is that it may have been hard even for her to lift something else with her in it like why she dosen't stop the blackbird when it's hit and magneto does
Posts: 397 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I saw the Beast! He's not Beast yet, though, He's Hank McCoy.. he's on the TV at the bar, talking about mutants, you know, when Mystique goes after that prison guard..
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Wow im not the only one who noticed. ihad to point it out to my freinds none of them noticed. *The Wiggin is impresed*
Posts: 397 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
i pointed it out to my friends to and one of em was like "are you sure it was him, he wasnt blue"
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Excellent piece of info! You are absolutely right. I think the majority of use are lulled into being spoon-fed at a movie. This was subtle, maybe too subtle for most of us, including me. It took your comments to refresh my memory and helped me make the connection.
Yes I noticed Hank on the TV also. I am waiting for X1 and X2 to be put out as a DVD set. I hope something is in the works.
Thanks for all the comments!
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