posted
There was talk in another thread about the movie being produced as an animated or CGI film rather than live action and my thoughts came out like this.
The idea of Ender's Game put into an animated medium is a really exciting idea if done correctly.
I have watched Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence along with several other (what I consider to be) "good" Japanese anime series and movies, and I am always amazed at how high the production values are on these things. The stories throw me for a loop in a few but by and large they're very good.
Every frame is rich in artistic detail from the lighting effects to the actual characters. The sound design ranges from good to high quality and there never seems to be an end to the beautiful music that is also produced. Some of the drawing style can be VERY odd (it's Japanese after all), but that does not hold true across the gamut of anime that is out there.
We even have a few good animation studios here in the states. Pixar, Don Bluth, and maybe Dreamworks (after Shark Tale and the Madagascar preview I don't know...).
You wouldn't have to find people that necessarily looked like the characters they were trying to portray. Zero gravity and other physical effects would have a greater flexibility when it came to timing, directing, and shooting. Touchy sequences like the Stilson beating, Bonzo beating, and others could be more flexible in the way that the action was presented, and could come across to the audience a little easier then they would if they were "living" creatures/actors.
Maybe even the concept of brilliant children would come across better as well. It's not every day that we hear children speaking and presenting themselves in the manner described in the books, but animated it might get people off the "kids don't talk like that" mindset and on with the story.
CG would be nice for the backgrounds, but for the characters themselves, unless it were used to assist in the animation of a drawn character (inbetweens), it would not be a good idea.
The only CG character that has been able to act a fairly wide range of emotions in a believable manner is Gollum from PJ's films. And it wasn't even until the 3rd movie that the technology really made him shine. Multiply that by 20? Ehhh...While animated characters may not move their mouth exactly right etc, from what I've seen so far you can still convey a lot of emotion.
There's also the task of getting inside the characters thoughts and feelings. A narrator might help but what could the animated medium have to offer? What kinds of ways could you visually show characters thoughts? Transitioning from onscreen action to onscreen thought would seem to me as being much more smooth if animated rather than filmed.
If good voice acting was used (not the overused and asinine "talents" we are currently subjected to in anime dubbings) the delivery of a story like Ender's Game through a quality animated production would be excellent.
posted
I agree, and posted a similar thread awhile back. Alot of people are with us, but the ideas been exuasted. Oh well...
Posts: 278 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
It's only good if you're into making a classic fantasy series a depressing, trippy, and poorly done musical.
My point is that it's not really a movie of a book if it's a cartoon. It's just a cartoon of a book. The only exception to the rule is that of children's books (Shrek, for example).
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Of course it doesn't. But that doesn't mean people think that.
And my point is that if you make Ender's Game or LOTR into a cartoon, it becomes exactly that. A silly cartoon.
And besides that, making an EG cartoon is a cop-out. We don't want to take the effort to make a good live-action movie, so let's make a cartoon.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Can't we do both? Make an anime which will be maybe a bit more in-depth (if I can use that word in this situation) and a live action movie for the masses. The movie could be a bit more mainstream and the anime could be for all those geeks (for lack of a better word) out there. Just like Lord of the Ring as well as the Animatrix (even though that wasn't really an anime version of the matrix per se). Since most mainstream movie-goers crave action the live action movie could focus more on the Battle School (and the Buggers could be CGI like Gollum, so they wouldn't look crappy). And since most anime fans don't mind a series without alot of action as long as it has a good storyline (unless your into Dragonball Z) the anime could focus on Val and Peter's Locke and Demosthenes charade. Just a thought
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I must say that seeing as how I like Anime I must say I completely agree with an Anime medium. Just watch Mobilesuit: Gundam Wing and Gundam Seed to understand what we're talking about. (they have kind similar plot lines as well) abunch of commando teenagers piloting mechs and using them as weapons in war. The Animation was superb and the dubbed voices for GW were also amazing (Kirby Marrow anyone?). And it isn't just anime geeks who watch it. ince pretty much 75% of people under the age of 24 does indeed watch it (the good ones at least). And once more it would be ALOT easier on the director/producer because you wouldn't have to worry about child acters.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
That's the problem. You have to like anime. Anyone can like a sci-fi movie, although fans are much more restricted to us geeks. Anime doesn't have wide appeal, it JUST has the geek fanbase.
(note: I'm speaking in general terms).
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
You make a good point about the "only anime geeks watching" portiero (sp?). Would it have to be pumped up somehow for the masses? What would be in need of pumping exactly? Of course WB went with anime inspired live action Matrix films, but we saw how those went.
It doesn't have to be "anime" in particular as just being a movie "with cel shaded characters and incredibly computer assisted frametweening and backgrounds". No spiky hair junk
posted
The Gundam Serieses (there were multiple Gundam "Universes") did tend to be rather realistic as in no "spiky hair" which indeed I wouldn't want in an animated version of Ender's Game. In fact just the animation part no anime cliches at all and thus it will appeal to the general audiance because it is A: Ender's Game and thus Ender's Game readers and anime regulars will watch it. As for the general general audiance they'll watch it too on the premise that A: They're kids/siblings will watch it and B: It is inspired by a book series that won arwards so they could watch it based on the premise of good reviews.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
By the simple act of calling it anime you are turning off thousands of potential viewers. Also, it doesn't matter how well it's done, it is still a cartoon.
And it still woulnd't be a movie of Ender's Game to me, and many people around the world. It would just be a cartoon. No matter how well it would be done, it would be no more a movie of EG as the cartoon LOTR.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
OK so I get that you guys like Anime but consider this. what if there never was a movie. what if we never had to complain about how that retard form Phantom Menace was a terrible Ender. I think the story is good but what is it without Speaker, Xeno, and Children? we don't want to see ender as the Xenocyde and never see him save two other ramen species, no wait, make that three other ramen species from obliteration. what I dread is the day I tell my kids about Ender and the series and they are like "yeah that movie was alright." Trying to make a Movie out of Ender's Game is like trying to fit an elephant in a compact car. leave it alone.
Posts: 484 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
NOW that is going too far; I personally would like a movie. I don't care about the medium per say, i just would like it to be a good well made movie.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
why? does every good book have to be turned into a movie so the illiterate can enjoy it? or have we just become so accustomed to Film being viewed as the ultimate expression that the next logical step would be to make a movie?
Posts: 484 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Well, if Ender's Game were made into a movie more people could appreciate it. Even the illiterate. Being a 15 year old kid myself I know that most teenagers would sooner see a movie about a book than actually crack one open. Is this bad? Yes. But also, it creates a chance for a whole new type of crowd to get into the series. I know plenty of people, who after seeing the LoTR movies actually took a chance and read the books. And some who read them before they saw the movies just so they could say how much they liked the book better (yes, people will do that just to be supercillious). Bridging the gap between literature and motion pictures is a great way for people from both crowds to meet and for us to enrich them. Yes, I know the rest of the world is dumber than us Ramdac, but just give them some time to catch up.
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Good post and NO I AM NOT ILLITERATE! I happen to have/own somewhere around 100 books from sci-fi by asimov/card to fantasy by RA Salavatore and plenty of historical, science books as well. To tell I'm one of those people that got into the LOTR's books from first watching the movie. And damnit I'm running out of books.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I've read and reread about 98 of them. The ones that get read the most often are my ender books. And damnit all of the new books aren't coming out for months grr...
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
My point is that in addition to the hundred books you own and the books that have not yet been written, there are other books worth reading already in existence. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have thought quite a bit about this and essentially came to the same conclusion. Anyone who is concerned about it being a cartoon and not a movie needs to see Ghost in the Shell and/or Ghost in the Shell 2. I can think of no better example of an animated masterpiece, movies far better than the vast majority of live action films. And I generally hate anime.
It is true that as a cartoon Ender's Game would not make as much money. At the same time, if the film is marketed well it could enjoy reasonable success and perhaps become a cult classic. I personally would rather it be a deep and powerful indie film than a action packed blockbuster anyway.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Hey guys... I know it's rude to join up and then immediately post something but I have a question along the same lines as this thread. I'm not trying to promote or sell anything. I just wrote an email to the contact email site and was wondering if anyone else had any suggestions for obtaining the following or know if this is even possible:
Copy of Email ->
Deep Breathing Exercises: My name is John Conn and I own dotConn Productions Video & Multimedia, a professional video production company in Alaska. My company is a member of the Wedding and Event Videographers Association, International and also a member of the Alaska Professional Videographers Association. Additionally, several local videographers and I have teamed up to create a new association titled, "Alaska Sceneamatographers Society." We're concentrating on taking the talents and equipment that each of our companies own and combining them to do one short film or dramatic work a year. This year we've decided to work on a thriller/dread piece with a similar feel to the Butterfly Effect. Having been a long time reader of OSC I was familiar with all of his short stories and immediately thought of the short story,” Deep Breathing Exercises." As a producer I can really see the impact that this story could have by using visual cues and audio stingers to draw the viewer into the story line, culminating in the fateful scene in the mental hospital.
Several of us are beginning to pre-plan the shooting schedule and have already begun scouting the locations, so that we can storyboard around them. We will be having our next Association meeting on March 12th and I will present the story to all members at that time.
The reason that I am contacting you (Hatrack and or OSC) is that we obviously would like to have the blessing of the OSC management to work with the intellectual property that is this short story. We do not expect to distribute this piece for sale but rather to use it as a training tool, as well as to showcase our talent of producing a visual interpretation of an excellent piece of fiction. While we could produce this piece for personal enjoyment under the fair use laws, we can not distribute it in any way without permissions, (Such as on IFILM). Therefore, we are interested in securing the permissions of OSC's attorney's and publicists prior to beginning production. As this is a not for profit exercise, we do not intend to receive nor distribute royalties for producing this piece.
Equipment: Each of the Videography companies and individuals come to the project with incredible production value and many years of experience in the professional Videography field. Most of the companies utilize equipment that is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and the video will be edited direct from digital. Additionally, this spring, my company will be stepping into the High Definition market and are anticipating shooting this piece on high def or 1080i HDV. We will be incorporating steadicam units, jib-boom units, track dollies and professional lighting design. Post production will be accomplished using state of the art editing, motion graphics and compositing systems to produce the final film. The reason I explain our equipment is to state that we intend to do this project correctly and hope that when it is completed it will be something we can be proud of.
Contact Information: Please take a look at my company's website to find out a little about me and my production company and to see samples of our corporate and visual effects work (Located in the Flash section of the website only).
Please give me a call at ***-***-**** or you may email me at dotconnproductions@yahoo.com
While I am not a regular contributor to the Hatrack Community but am aware of its efforts and do pop in occasionally to see the goings on and announcements of new OSC books. Thank you for your consideration, and if for some reason I did not submit this to the correct location, please direct me to the correct email address or contact information.
posted
hmm I never read Scotts short stories, I should try to read them some time in the future when I have money.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Just get "maps in a mirror" its worth it I guarentee it, if you don't like it I'll let you hunt me down and shoot me, I have that much faith in it. Guestimated price like $30 max.
Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Hey, Dot, this is Scott Card's son, Geoffrey.
I think the contact thing should work pretty well for you. It has for friends of mine who have tried to contact me through the website, though it may take a few days. I'll warn you, though, in advance ... this is an author who takes his copyright very seriously Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Thanks for the heads up. I totally understand the copyright issue involved here. I'm a huge fan of your dad's work (Not too freaky, but we did name our turtles Ender and Valentine… We drew the line at naming our children after book characters) and know that an artist's intellectual property is the only commodity that people are interested in buying.
I believe that it's pretty obvious that we are actually doing the appropriate thing by contacting the owner and requesting permission to produce this piece. The one question that I have is whether or not Orson Scott owns the piece outright or whether it is controlled by the publisher of Maps in a Mirror. Obviously, this is the wrong venue to begin a discussion of such sort, but I have no clue as how to contact either Card or the publisher of the piece.
What leads me to believe that this production might be possible is a) lack of royalties for the project in either direction, b) the fact that your dad has spent a good portion of his career writing stage plays that often were adaptations of other works such as Scripture and portions of the Book of Mormon, and c) a short, low budget film produced several years ago in which members of your family acted out scenes written by OSC that I saw on the internet.
In the case of the first item (Lack of royalties paid), I believe the story by OSC to be absolutely fascinating. The story is written in such a manner that it could be filmed in much the same vein as M. Night Shyamalan's work. That story, combined with our team's combined production value obviously has the chance to be picked up as a short film at any of the minor/major film festivals. Modern cinema is being revolutionized by the advent of digital production teams with far less experience and equipment than we have available. While I'm not promising Hollywood capabilities, I am rather offering the combined talent of a diverse team with years of experience in the corporate Videography field. In relation to any possible future monies distributed, I would obviously be interested in working out an agreement in advance whereby all parties would benefit in that event.
Secondly, I believe that it was your dad who stated in the forewords to one of his books that the only way that knowledge is increased is by building upon that which has been done before. When you have an incredible story that was first published in 1979 and reprinted a few times since, I believe sometimes it is time to switch mediums to continue to build upon the story. Rather than try to invent a new story in this style, we would like to adapt an already great story to a new genre.
I'm always fascinated by modifications to established stories and have really enjoyed Card's adaptations; specifically in relation to the Biblical narratives concerning the early women of the Bible (I have a BS in Theology from Western Baptist College and a BA in History from University of Alaska, Anchorage... Therefore I love the modification of documents in a historical and theological vein).
Thirdly, the icing on the cake would be if Card himself was willing to join us in this project and pen the screen play himself. That would be an honor to say the least and a pretty easy method of skirting the issue of copyright infringement and would ensure him involvement in the quality and value of the finished piece. As an owner of a business and product, I am freakishly controlling about any products with my name on them and would prefer to have nothing out in public view that might devalue my name and I expect Orson Scott may feel the same way. Therefore, a true collaboration would help ensure the quality of this project.
Basically all we're asking is the chance to present our ideas and gain the blessing of Orson Scott for this project. Geoffrey, we'd love to have you aid us by bringing this production idea to your dad's attention. Once again, you can contact me directly via my website at www.dotconnproductions.com.Posts: 2 | Registered: Feb 2005
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