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Author Topic: Notes on Shadow of the Giant
IMAEnderFreak
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Mr. Card (and all other readers):

First of all (before I am possible destroyed to bits by fanatical readers who believe that I am ungraciously and unrightiously attacking our beloved author, Mr. Orson Scott Card, by giving my own two cents when it comes to his most current work) I would like to make it clear that I absolutely love the Ender series, as well as anything else (Alvin Maker, Lovelock, etc.) that I have read by Mr. Card. I also enjoyed very much the overly genorous opportunity all Ender fans were given by this author on this Website by being able to read the opening chapters of the long awaited novel, Shadow of the Giant. I read it thoroughly, and just thought that Mr. Card might appreciate my feeble attempts to find things grammatically and perhaps content-wise that didn't quite work for me. I have tried my best to be true to the books I so love when examining this partial manuscript, thinking all the while 'How could this be made better for Ender fans everywhere?'.

I would also like to note that many of my comments might be made from the mere fact that I do not know how this story is going to turn out. Things that seem confusing might be just because they are to be explained later on in the manuscript. My own ignorance from what is going to happen is probably a source of error in these comments, as is my not-perfect memory (I am not at all like Bean in that, or anything I think
[Smile] ).

First of all, it was very interesting to recieve information from the view of Han Tzu (Hot Soup), as we have obviously have had very little from him in any of the Ender books. However, it does seem pretty random, how he so suddenly becomes emporer of China. This is explained in the manuscript, of course, but from little building up of the character in Shadow Puppets, and none at all in Shadow of the Hegemon or (that I really remember) in Ender's Shadow, it seems somewhat lacking. We as the readers (or rather, I as a reader) do not know Han Tzu. I know who he is, of course, and I've seen something of his character when he blows up (to an extent) in Shadow Puppets. But that is not enough to go on when it comes to his actions in Mandate of Heaven (the name of the chapter).

Another thing I noticed, throughout the manuscript, was a little thing that gets on my nerves. It is a pet peeve of mine, I admit, and might mean little in retrospect. But it is there nonetheless. What is grinding on me so heavily throughout this partial manuscript is excessive use of the phrase "so-and-so <insert name here>" or "said <insert name here>". This is, as has been previously stated, throughout these three chapters. Some examples? They seem to be most evident in chapter three, Coup.

quote:
"Petra," said Peter, "you're right. I owe everything to you and Bean. But that doesn't change the fact that whatever you think of me and whatever you think of the office of Hegemon, I hold that office, and I'm trying to use it to avoid another bloody war."

"You're trying to use your office to make your office into 'dictator of the world.' Unless you can figure out a way to extend your reach out to the colonies and become 'dictator of the known universe.'"

"We don't actually have any colonies yet," said Peter. "The ships are all still in transit and will be until we're all dead. But by the time they arrive, I'd like them to send their ansible messages back home to an Earth that is united under a single democratic government."

"It's the democratic part I missed," said Petra. "Who elected you?"

"Since I don't have any actual authority over anybody, Petra, how can it possibly matter if I'm not legitimately authorized?"

"You argue like a debater," she said. "You don't actually have to have an idea, you just have to have a seemingly clever refutation."

"And you argue like a nine-year-old," said Peter. "Sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'La la la' and 'same to you.'"

I know it's probably not that important, but it is one thing I noticed, and it was really, as stated above, grinding on my nerves.

As I am a busy person, I currently do not have the time to complete this going-through of the current manuscript as has been read by myself. I apologize profusely if these ideas have been stated by others and not noticed by myself, as well as if I am being much to nit-picky for my own good. I would also like to thank Mr. Card very much for allowing us, his humble fans, to read through this piece of Shadow of the Giant.

Thank You,

Miss Yerf,
Age 15 [Smile]

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Lyrhawn
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Ironic in there, Mr. Card seems to have broken one of his general rules for character naming, in that main characters shouldn't sound the same, such as Peter and Petra, but it's only a minor annoyance to read that scene and try and figure out who is saying what, usually you can tell from the actual content of the sentence.

Also Mr. Card said in his writing tip things on this site that he generally doesn't like using taglines at the end of sentences. But I DO like how they were used in that particular quote. It broke up the sentence a bit. The pause you have to make in your mind to read "said peter" pauses the flow just enough to make it sound like the people speaking aren't just rattling off dialogue. I like the effect, regardless of whether or not Mr. Card intended for it to sound like that or not.

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mr_porteiro_head
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Check out Uncle Orson's Writing Class, where he talks about why he disagrees with you.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Also, about the character naming:

When he named those two characters, he had no intention of ever writing a story where they would interact.

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IMAEnderFreak
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Thank you very much for pointing that out to me; I've obviously not really done my research properly. Thanks very much.

Miss Yerf

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mr_porteiro_head
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No worries. I just really enjoy reading OSC talk about writing, even though I'm not a writer at all.
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Vid
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I'm really not at all surprised that he used Han Tzu. (Granted, I named my computer after him, so I'm kind of biased) If I had the books in front of me, I'd be able to point out more specifics, but in Ender's Shadow, I remember Bean describing most of Ender's jeesh on the way to Tactical and Command School. I thought there was some passing mention of him in SotH, but I could be hallucinating.

What really set him up for a major role in SotG in my mind was the way Card used some of his emails in the beginning of a few chapters in Shadow Puppets. His frustration at the Chinese government and way of life, I thought, set up very well his place in SotG.

Or at least the place I think he's going to have [Smile]

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Lyrhawn
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My bad about the taglines, I remembered it wrong. And yeah, I realize he never meant to use Petra and Peter in the same story, or at least not to have them intereact on such an intense level.

And either way, I never said it was bad.

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IMAEnderFreak
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quote:
What really set him up for a major role in SotG in my mind was the way Card used some of his emails in the beginning of a few chapters in Shadow Puppets.
I hadn't even thought of those. That's a good point. Obviously Han Tzu was mentioned in passing in SotH because of Achilles kidnapping Ender's jeesh; I can't remember if there was anything else, but I am thinking not.

Miss Yerf

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jjmelberg
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quote:
First of all, it was very interesting to recieve information from the view of Han Tzu (Hot Soup), as we have obviously have had very little from him in any of the Ender books.
Don't most of the books in the entire series start off like that though? He introduces a new character and we dont really find out how it ties into the rest of the story till later. I love how he always brings new characters into the story and makes us fall in love with them just as much as the "classic" characters.
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IMAEnderFreak
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quote:
I love how he always brings new characters into the story and makes us fall in love with them just as much as the "classic" characters.
I like that too. I makes the story that much more interesting, both to the reader and I'm guessing probably to the writer. I'm looking forward to possibly hearing more about Han Tzu, since we know very little about him right now. My point though was that we know so little about him at the present time that his take over of China is almost random. At least to me. But hey, I'm just a 15 year old kid; what do I know? [Big Grin]

Miss Yerf

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jjmelberg
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the end will justify the means
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PSI Teleport
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I always considered Hot Soup to be one of the more prominent Battle School kids, even from early on. Wasn't he in an army with Ender way back...either Salamander or Rat? I wasn't surprised to see him come to the forefront like he has.
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IMAEnderFreak
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I don't think Ender was ever in an army with any of his toon leaders or soldiers. Remember in Ender's Shadow, when Bean made a point to not include any of the soldiers Ender knew well?

I also thought (and this is my opinion) that Crazy Tom was the most developed (or perhaps just best developed) of the toon leaders besides the obvious exception of Bean in the books, and so I've been surprised we haven't seen him. I liked his history and his character, and wish we could have (or might, in future chapters) seen more of him.

Miss Yerf

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NinjaBirdman
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I agree, Crazy Tom was one of my favorites. I hope he finds a way into one of these books. [Smile]
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gingerjam
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Yeah Crazy Tom and Dink Meeker are two members of Enders jeesh that get a lot of mention so i hope they make it into SotG in a biggish way, but as for Han Tzu, having SotG start with him was good cos before it didn't feel like there was closure on that character...

-he was leader of D toon in Dragon Army and gets some mention in EG (probably shows that EG gives background info assumed in the Shadow books)
-he is a member of the Jeesh for the final battle (though doesn't seem to get mentioned when they all get kidnapped)
-Peter thinks his info coming out of China is reliable as he thinks it's from Han Tzu
-it is his email in Shadow puppets that alerts Bean and Petra to the fact that the info leading to Achilles "rescue" by hegemon forces wasn't reliable
-chapter 17 in Shadow Puppets is pretty much all about Han Tzu and leads up to the start of SotG that we've read

(i'm a unemployed student housewife...uni hasn't started and i've read the books too many times)

I like the fact that his character is being made more important, especially because he's had quite a bit of a mention but is not a prominent character.

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Sid Meier
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Indeed, good show.
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IMAEnderFreak
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I do hope, as has been pretty much stated here, that we go beyond just Han Tzu, Alai, Petra and Bean when it comes to Ender's Jeesh. I'd even like to hear from Ambul a bit more; I liked him in the last book, small though his role was.
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Trisha the Severe Hottie
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I do think there is some possibility that a different way of referring to either Petra or Peter could come up. Like if he is the point of view character in a scene, as I believe he is, he could think of her as Mrs. ... uh, what's Bean's last name? To kind of help along the tension there.

And when Petra is the point of view character, she could think of him as "The Hegemon" as she is obviously irritated that he is in power.

Crud, I really can't remember Bean's last name.

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Vid
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Delphiki... but does Bean go by it now that they're married?
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Pythian
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he goes by bean.

I really want to see something happen with Nikolia. I mean since ES they actually dont even mention him, you would think that there would some mention of beans closest freind and only brother(excluding the ones that died). What ever happened to that bond they had?

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sarcasticmuppet
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the word "said" is never inappropriate because it disappears into the script. Now, get someone like, say, JK Rowling, who never just writes "said" but adds lots and lots of -ly adverbs and it tends to annoy a few readers who can get bogged down.

I like both writing styles (Rowling and Card) pretty equally, but I'd have to say that the more "correct" form just uses "said".

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