posted
So the American sound of taunting - "nya, nya-nya nya nya" - and the sound of a Japanese cat are identical. Well duh. Cat-speech IS taunting. They know no other language.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: So the American sound of taunting - "nya, nya-nya nya nya" - and the sound of a Japanese cat are identical. Well duh. Cat-speech IS taunting. They know no other language.
That's not true. They're all fluent in whining for attention, too.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm so sorry. I forgot whining. And that's odd, because of course after I kick their arrogant taunting little butts, I hear a LOT of whining.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd actually /like/ to think that it was your work that inspired her.. - Anyone know if she has a forum that we can bring subjects up to her attention? Or is only Scott that cool?
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: I'm so sorry. I forgot whining. And that's odd, because of course after I kick their arrogant taunting little butts, I hear a LOT of whining.
posted
On the subject of Rowling's influences, I think, based on this review, that Jane Yolen's Wizard Hall, is a better place to look. But I haven't read it, so I can't be sure. Perhaps Ursula K. Le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea is another option. But I think that there is a long tradition of stories about people going to study magic, for example the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorcerer's_Apprentice]The Sorcerer's Apprentice[/url]. Back when guilds were common, the story took that form, today it is natural that it takes place in a school.
Edit: Can't seem to get that link to work.
Posts: 285 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe. Or for some reason you're not triggering the "this is a referred link stealing our bandwidth" sensors. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: I kick their arrogant taunting little butts
Kudos to Card! I almost murdered three cats. I mnaged to step on their tails (a pitch-black night), and managed to kick them a bit before they escaped.
In the US, are most street-cats one-eyed, or is it only here?
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jon, the incredible proliferation of mangy street cats is a phenomenon that Jerusalem does not share with most American cities. Not that we have none; merely that we don't usually have them in the ridiculous numbers y'all do.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by kojabu: Oops, I guess the fact that I was tired made me miss a few proper names in there. But who you are... still a question.
Nice post Hitoshi, I'd just add that the further you get in the Speaker series, the more Ender tries to initiate contact with the Buggers. Harry doesn't sit around trying to perform Occulemency on someone whose location is unknown.
Thank you for the compliment, it's one of the few posts I've ever been bothered to get up off my lazy bum and write. =)
And good point; having not read the rest of the Enderverse, I wouldn't have known about Ender trying to contact the Buggers, but you are indeed correct. Harry is, in fact, relieved when he finds out he no longer has to worry about being mentally probed by Voldemort or vice versa.
As for whether JKR has a forum for these issues, I'm afraid she does not. However, she does frequent fan sites dedicated to her book and will sometimes respond to rumors on her site (www.jkrowling.com). Hope that's useful to you. =)
Posts: 208 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had to wait until I finished Half Blood Prince before I could bring myself to read this thread. I am a very big fan of both stories and I am hoping the majority of the posts here are tongue in cheek but just in case I am mistaken, here is my view.
The stories are similar because both main characters follow the hero archetype (based off work by Joseph Campbell). This is something I teach my 7th graders and they tell me I have ruined every movie for them but they still it's pretty cool. My adaptation (for 7th grade minds) consists of ten parts. Plug in Ender and Harry to these to see what I mean (post them and I will come back and grade you... I miss school in the summer).
1. Unusual Birth: The hero has something that sets him apart even at birth. His family is different, the place or order of his birth is significant, or maybe there are strange circumstances surrounding his (or her) birth.
2. Separation: The hero is separated from his family and is raised by others. This is often cause by the villain's actions but not always. Childhood during this separation is sometimes painful.
3. The Call: This is a call to action. It is a significant even in the hero's life that starts him on the journey that will make him a hero although he rarely knows it at the time. He is often reluctant to go and sometimes this is not a happy event. (I teach the word epiphany here)
4. The Quest or Journey: A quest is a journey with a goal. A journey is more undefined and the goal of the quest is hidden from the hero or is never ending (in the case of superheroes). This is the longest part of the story and is a time where the hero faces many trials and tribulations.
5. Strengths: The hero possesses some sort of special power that aids him during the journey. It can be physical or mental or even a special weapon the hero finds along the way.
6. Weaknesses: The hero is hindered by a specific weakness during the journey. It can be internal or external and usually stems from something that happened during the separation. The villain often knows this weakness and plays off of it.
7. The Advisor: This is a person who helps the hero along the journey. This is NOT a peer or comic relief; it is someone older and wiser than the hero. The hero often ignores the help of the advisor, thinking he knows best and that sometimes leads to more trials during the journey. The advisor may be a supernatural or other non-human being and may be just the memory of someone.
8. The Villain: This person is often connected in some way to the hero's family and may have to be defeated many times. Other times, the villain may be hidden or disguised and part of the quest is that the hero must determine who he is. He often takes many forms, including that of the hero's friend (thus deceiving him and delaying the journey). Other times the villain is a stranger or a large outside force. (This is where I teach the 6 types of conflict)
9. The Atonement: This is where the hero makes everything right in the end. The villain is defeated or at least squelched for the moment. He comes to terms with the loss of his family (and is sometimes returned to them) and this is sort of a rebirth of the hero himself; an acceptance of who he is and his place in the world.
10. The reward: The world acknowledges the hero's accomplishments and he is sometimes able to return to everyday life although he has been greatly changed by his experiences.
I teach this concept using fictional (Harry Potter, Superman, Batman, and Luke Skywalker) and non-fictional heroes (Jesus, Abraham Lincoln, Mahata Gandhi, and Mother Theresa). I do NOT use Ender to teach it since I encourage my kids to read it and I don't want to spoil it for them. We apply this to Stanley from the book Holes that every 7th grader on my campus reads and with the mythology and independent reading we do throughout the year. It is one of my favorite lessons.
Sorry for the loooooooong post but I thought some people might find it interesting. Mandy
P.S. I hate cats too!
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Am I just a thread killer or what? I was checking out my recent posts link on my profile and all the posts I have written are at the end or close to the end of the threads. Either I am getting in on the thread late after everyone else has exhausted all avenues of discussion or I am the n00b with cooties. Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mandy, I'm sure you don't have cooties! You really did come to this thread late. Try and get involved in a thread earlier, and you'll affect those posting after you.
Welcome to Hatrack!
EDIT: the other side of the forum - "books, film and culture" - is more mature, I'm sure you'll find it a fun place to hang out in.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, I thought that was a very interesting and concise explanation of the hero's story. And although I was too young at the time I first read Ender's Game to make the connection, it now makes perfect sense.
I wonder if EG was constructed that way purposefully or if it was just, you know, subconsciously archetypal.
How many of OSC's other novels would fit within the same mould?
Magic Street, for example.
Ender's Shadow, for another. (Interesting.)
Hart's Hope? Oh, my heavens -- The Alvinmaker.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have one... Harry Potter books have been made into blockbuster movies and Ender's Game... oh, nevermind.
Though it seems like I was told by my mom that Ender's Game could have been made into a movie decades ago if OSC had been willing to make the kids older so they could have more romantic interests taking place or something. But it was important for the hero to be a kid because it was key for him to be young and malleable or something.
[back to reality] I think the take on battle school that has developed in the Shadow series is very interesting, that it is not the children's innocence that is the key to how things run but the necessity of occupying the ambition that has been bred into them. I wonder which view will come through in the film.
P.S. Forgot to turn the page before replying Now I'm all off topic. On the subject of cats, I don't know about Jerusalem but in Greece it was not so much the volume of cats but the default assumption that no one owned a given cat that contributed to the seeming wildness of them. Of course, I haven't experienced true inner city catness in America either. There were a few feral cat bands in SLC's city center, but there was generally an underlying assumption that a cat was owned by someone.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Beanny, I was kidding really. But thanks for the heads up about the "other" side. I'll check it out.
TL you'll find that LOTS of stories, even ones with unlikely heroes follow this pattern. The Alvin series does too I think.
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
THANK YOU, MandyM ! I've been asking my library to send me a copy of Joseph Campbell's "The Hero's Journey" for a YEAR without success. This is exactly what I've been looking for, as I'm trying to write a YA novel for my teen.
Some day I'm actually going to find that book and buy it... .
Posts: 68 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
Jon, Jon, Jon...![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Now I'm all off topic. On the subject of cats, I don't know about Jerusalem but in Greece it was not so much the volume of cats but the default assumption that no one owned a given cat that contributed to the seeming wildness of them. Of course, I haven't experienced true inner city catness in America either. There were a few feral cat bands in SLC's city center, but there was generally an underlying assumption that a cat was owned by someone.
