A thread on the other side lead me to your "The Children of Divorce" article. My husband is leaving me, and made it clear there is nothing I can do to stop him. He will not read the article, nor the book.
BUT many parts of the article really struck home. They hurt but they were almost liberating.
I felt like I must be crazy because I think he is wrong to throw all of this away in his pursuit of happiness, which is for him has been and remains elusive. He doesn't seem to care how it is tearing our son apart.
He is angry at me because I won't tell him that he is right and it is OK.
But especially near the end, many of your statements were reassuring. I am not the only one who thinks marriage isn't supposed to be disposable, and that you have to WORK at it, not just say, "Oops, I'm not happy, see ya." So I've been crying most of the night, but somehow I feel less horrible. If it had been about happiness I could have left 3 years ago. But it was about commitment, promises, and my son. I stuck it out. I would have stuck it out. I can't control him or make him do what is right, all I can do is try to make it batter for my son.
posted
Mimsies, I think marriage serves alot of different purposes (easy to say having never been married). My mother was divorced long ago because her first husband decided he was gay and needed to live that lifestyle, which he couldn't do married. She met my father, and they are married now 25 years.
The first marriage didn't work and served only to cause them both suffering and ill-will. My mother went on to be happy, and have happy kids.
My point is that though I think marriage should not be 100% about what YOU want to be happy, it can also make your kids miserable if it is a bad marriage. I think people often forget that while YES, marriage is good for the kids, a bad marriage can also take a phycological toll. IF the kids pick up on the angst involved, which they are bound to do, what is the benefit? Rather I would suggest moving on, and providing another stable environment for your kids.
IMO people often say, well studies show kids with married parents are happier. That is true, because marriages provide stability. But if you can provide a better stability in a different marriage or on your own, then this might be good better for them and you both. Good luck with your situation! I hope you make it through alright.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I know you have the best intentions and offer your remarks in the nicest way. BUT I want to point out that you don't know the situation I and my husband are in. The marriage is not what is making him unhappy. I meant it that happiness is and has been elusive for him. His whole life. He's always looking for the change that will make him happy, and doesn't look within himself for the solution.
Our marriage COULD have been fine. People HAVE to learn to love each other for who they are, not obssess over what they think the other person SHOULD be. He does it to our son too.
If one approaches a marriage with the attitude of "if it's hard, or doesn't work out, I can always get a divorce." If they even start thinking that way, marriage won't work out. Divorce is for when poeple have really worked at it, and there is just no other way. Because, marriage is going to be hard. That is how it is.
I didn't realize that he thought it was disposable, I wouldn't have married him.
OSC and I have VERY different opinions on MANY issues ranging from religion, to politics, to homosexuality. One place we seem to agree is marriage.
Do I think that people should never divorce? NO. Do I think that there are no good reasons to divorce? NO. Do I think that people give up on their marriages too easily? YES. Do I think that marriage or divorce are matters to be considered lightly? NO. Do I think that divorce is a real solution to minor annoyances, and the path to happiness for people who just don't seem to be capable of being happy? NO.
I absolutely agree that intact marriage is not what makes kids happy nor always the best for every family. But unwillingness to make the sacrifices and put in the work to make a marriage that should and could be good work, is not beneficial to kids. It teaches them to quit. It teaches them that sacrifice isn't necessary. It teaches them that their happiness and security isn't worth their parents' sacrifice and hard work.
My son will be less economically secure. He will now have to negotiate between two homes, and will see his father much less often. He now has an idea how easy it is for someone who says they are there for you to just leave on a whim.
I am glad things wrked out for you and your family and parents. But you don't know us, and I can say that OSC and his long successful marriage has much more relevant input to MY situation than someone who has never been married.
It is not my intention to be mean, offensive, or disrespectful. I understand you have the best intentions. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings.
posted
((mimsies)) You have said it all very well. If only more people realized that marriage is hard work, but worth the work (with exceptions for abuse and other extreme cases, of course) there wouldn't be so many broken families.
My sympathies for your difficult situation.
Posts: 120 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I think people often forget that while YES, marriage is good for the kids, a bad marriage can also take a phycological toll.
I don't think that OSC is forgetting that for a second. Whenever he makes a comment or goes further and composes an Op/Ed piece about homosexual marriage for example, people seem to assume that he is exculsively blaming this practice for the widespread marital problems in this country. Writing about divorce seems to have created some similar results.
I wouldn't assume that OSC is not concerned with the many forms of spousal and child abuse, the fighting over finances, etc. However, these things are generally recognized by society as being destructive. Many of the topics he chooses to write about seem to be focused on issues that society has come to approve of, but through his reading and research, faith, and personal experience he has come to know are destructive.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Oh and ((mimsies)). I can't imagine what you're going through and have to words of comfort to offer. I just wish I could give you a hug though.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I don't come to this side of the site very often, but it's Saturday morning and I'm not doing anything yet, I was bored.
Reading your reply to Orincoro, mimsies, makes me think that your husband is a very foolish man indeed. It sounds to me, based on that reply, that you are quite a woman. I knew you were getting divorced, I believe you posted it on the other side, but I don't think I've ever spoken to you, so I didn't say anything there. I think that total strangers offering sympathy for deeply personal things can be a bit weird.
But I'll do it here, stranger or not. I'm sorry for what you're going through. I wish your husband were a wiser and more responsible man, and although obviously things could be much better, I cannot help but think you will with your son weather things successfully.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
It breaks my heart, Mimsies, when people go through things like this. I've known so many couples where one member detaches and the other can't prevent it, and it's for relatively superficial reasons. Grass-is-always-greener reasons.
At the same time, as I acknowledged in my essay (and as the authors of the book I was reviewing repeatedly acknowledged) there are marriages that are truly dangerous and destructive and must be ended. I was not presuming to judge ANY particular marriage. I was, however, urging people to remember, before divorcing, that while divorce for the safety of parent or child (for instance) is necessary and desirable, divorce for the "happiness" of a parent, whether it's good for the child or not, is a selfish act, in principle. And I've also known couples where one of the spouses was unhappy and thought he or she found the answer outside the marriage - but then stopped short, thought of the children, stayed and made the best of it.
Making the best of it - that's the thing so many people seem to despise. Yet it IS, in many or perhaps most cases, the nobler course. The admirable, worthy choice. Mimsies, your husband is choosing himself over the children and over the woman he promised himself to. What is he now? Can he be happy as an oathbreaker? As a disappointer of his own children? Maybe he can; but my point is simply that our society does no one a favor by treating HIS choice as the noble one ("You have to love yourself first; you have to pursue happiness; if love is gone, who would want you to stay?") and yours as the dull, demanding, selfish one. THEY are wrong. YOU are right. I think people in your situation need to hear that. None of this no-fault business. You did what you promised; you are blameless. Not "perfect," probably (though you may be, for all I know! <grin>), but innocent of any action that would break your family.
and yet it is being broken. Now all you can do is make the best of it; and at least you can know what your children are going through, and understand some of their lostness ...
Once a divorce happens, then you do your best with what's left. I also honor the parents who do THAT. Who remain conscientious parents even when the family is broken.
Because any society that doesn't put the interests of children foremost has decided to die, as a society ...
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I am sorry that I have not responded to anyone before this.
First the internet was cut off when My husband (soon to be ex) moved out f the apartment. I spet the next several weeks packing for myself and my son. We took some time off to celebrte the holidays, and I finished moving out on Dec 31st. I promply came downwit something much like the flu, but the flu test was negative. It turned to bronchitis, but I managed to avoid pneumonia this time. My Mom caught it after me, and now my son has it, but is having a hard time getting it out of his lungs.
This is really just my first cance to get on in over a month beyond checking e-mail to check for mediation appointents and answer e-mails from my husband.
Thanks for the hugs and support everyone. It really helps. Rakeesh, thanks <grin> compliments from people , ebven people I don't really know feel pretty good about now.
My son is with his father this weekend. Those are hard weekends for me. Especially this one when he is still sick. I dropped him of with his fever still at 100.7, which is at least lower than earlier this week. I had to teach his father how to work the inhaler, and I worry that he didn't quite get it, nor does he quite understand when he needs to have our son use it.
Uncle Orson, your response means so much to me. Not just because you are one of my favorite authors time, but becaue of WHAT you wrote. I'm past feeling self righteous for being "in the right" but just knowing that people whm I resect and whose opinion I value (and who aren't my Mom and Dad) seem to be able to see where I'm coming from feels reassuring. I feel more capable of being the good person and parent that I know I need to be right now. SO again, thanks.
By the way, I just finished the Worthing Saga (and am currently working on Hot Sleep). I really liked it. The part win the desert with Hoom when his children die, and he dies trying to save his son made me cry. In a good way. Thanks for that too.
I was about 5 when my father left for greener grass. I remember a lot of soar throats. I always got those instead of crying. But it passed and my Mother, though she cried and was worried a lot, always seemed very strong to me, and it only made me love and respect her more as I grew up.
Sorry you and and your son are getting a bad deal from a shnook. But your outlook seems really good. I bet it will all work out all right. Hang in there. Best wishes from out here in computerland.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
My father left me and my five brothers, too. We saw him, but weekend or monthly visits were never enough to make up for the fact that he left. My mother wasn't perfect, but she tried her best to attend to us, love us, and teach us well. I still have sadness, anger, and weird little complexes - but i also learned empathy, compassion, and sacrifice. I think i turned out okay, I pray things turn well for you and your son, as well.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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