posted
I though Mormons were not allowed caffeine, was I wrong or did OSC just admit to a past transgression which he has now given up?
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Lots and lots of Mormons drink caffinated sodas. I for instance drink a whole lotta diet coke. Some mormons don't think much of it, but it hasn't gotten me in trouble lately!
Posts: 234 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
The rule in Mormon scripture is "No Hot Drinks" which has been interpreted (given the usage of that phrase at the time it was written) to mean "No Tea or Coffee". In recent years, since caffeine is the strongest active ingredient in tea and coffee, many Mormons have extended the rule to include any drink that contains significant amounts of caffeine. This is a personal and cultural opinion, however, and is not binding upon the Church as a whole.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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He's a democrat, too, and Mormons aren't allowed to be that either.
Seriously, some LDS interpret the prohibition on tea & coffee to be based on the caffeine in them, and so they avoid caffeine. Or they avoid caffeine just because it's not a great idea to take an unneeded drug on an everyday basis as part of your beverage. But it's not specifically prohibited.
Edit: Whoops! ditto what Puppy said.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I drink Dr. Pepper or Coke-- occasionally. Because I sometimes need caffeine for dangerously low blood pressure, I limit myself in my non-medicinal drinkage so the small amound in one caffienated soda will still work on me when I need it. And also, because I tend to try to avoid being addicted to things other than internet forums. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
"And also, because I tend to try to avoid being addicted to things other than internet forums."
You got me there! I avoid addictive substances - but addictive habits I'm not too good on. Apparently I'm pretty easy to get addicted to any given behavior. I guess it's a good thing I do avoid caffeine!
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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My husband got me some coca cola after a particularly bad bout of indigestion over the holidays. But in general I'm anti-cola. My husband will use it on roadtrips. While I know many fine upstanding Mormons who don't eschew cola, I have known a couple whose ruined health could be chiefly connected to it.
Hmm. I give up playing Halo and all of the sudden I start posting here again. It's the addiction amoeba.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Cripes, Pelegius, does your Palm Pilot have "Be a jackass" scheduled for today? One thread accusing Card (in the title) of not having thought through his beliefs, and another one acusing him of sinning? Can you be more tacky?
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Is all that you got out of this article that OSC doesn't live up to your preconcieved stereotypes of Mormon values systems? First, you should really look at what the article was about, there may be something actually worth discussing. Second, you should really look into what the values of a particular group really are before accusing someone from that group of not living up to them. You are making yourself look both ignorant and petty at the same time.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Yeah i think im beomcoming totally addicted to this and World Of Warcraft. I mean I get on hatrack everyday during second period, when i should be doing the work thats assigned. Yay im a rebel....kind-of Posts: 110 | Registered: Jan 2006
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What's the reason for this rule of Mormonism? (I've never understood why religions still have food prohibitions.)
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Like the Jewish restrictions on food, it's in our scriptures: "And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly." Has been interpreted to mean coffee and tea. That same section also includes prohibitions on alcohol and tobacco.
Nowadays we understand why alcohol and tobacco are bad for the body, but we don't know all the reasons why coffee and tea are prohibited. There have been some who research into what chemicals or components of those drinks might be not good for us, which is why some people have extended their abstinence to include all caffeinated drinks.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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DavidR, don't patronize me. I had though, not entirely incorrectly as it turned out, that Mormons avoided caffeine. The rest of the article was of little interest to me personally, although it seemed to be well researched and certainly offered good advice. Regardless, I see absolutely no point in my pretending to have any interest in diet supplements, although this could change if I find that I am in need of some. If OSC had not written it, I would not have read it, so I would say that I am giving him high praise.
The question was honest (I know very little about Mormonism and this is apparently not the place to learn.)
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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JennaDean, ketchupqueen, sarcare and Puppy: thank you for your responses, which were informative and polite, rather than attacking my, admittedly dangerous, combination of ignorance and curiosity.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Omega, the Mormon dietary code (called the Word of Wisdom) was originally given simply as advice from God on how to best take care of yourself physically. It basically laid out the common substances that Americans were likely to become dependent upon at the time (early 1900s), and said to stay away. It also recommended other things, like going to sleep and waking early, relying less on meat, etc.
Decades later, once the members of the Church had gotten used to the idea, the Word of Wisdom was raised to the level of being binding on the membership. I think that this was done as much as a means of setting us apart from other cultures (which often promote drinking, smoking, etc) as it was to improve our health. It certainly makes being a Mormon mean more, both to us, and to strangers who get to know us, when we have to take such care to keep ourselves sober and unaddicted, to the point of avoiding some common social rituals.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I think it is similar to-(I am aware that I am liable to be attacked for noting a similarity here)-Buddhism, in which one should not become addicted to pretty much anything, for their own sake, simply because the desire for that item or action can cause harm to themselves or others.
Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005
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It also has some similarities to the situation in 1984, where good Party members are not supposed to drink, have sex, or smoke, because that would interfere with adulation of Big Brother. The Mormons seem better at living up to their ideal, though. Ingsoc is consciously (or half-consciously, through the use of doublethink) hypocritical, after all.
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It would also interfere with sleep, physical maturity, work, family life, education and other important things like longer life.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Drinking and smoking, yes - although drinking, I believe, is possible in moderation without ill effects. Sex, well, that's another matter.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by RunningBear: I think it is similar to-(I am aware that I am liable to be attacked for noting a similarity here)-Buddhism, in which one should not become addicted to pretty much anything, for their own sake, simply because the desire for that item or action can cause harm to themselves or others.
I think it's very similar to what you just described in Buddhism.
No fear of attack. Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Cripes, Pelegius, does your Palm Pilot have "Be a jackass" scheduled for today? One thread accusing Card (in the title) of not having thought through his beliefs, and another one acusing him of sinning? Can you be more tacky?
This from a gentleman who seems to do nothing but comment on the quality of other individuals, but whom I specifically remember asking me to stop with "personal BS." I hate to disagree with you hear because Pelegius is SOOO tacky, but at least he doesn't pretend to some kind of virtue like you do. This is the most disgusted I have been with a Hatracker, and over a little thing like this. How dissapointing.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: It also has some similarities to the situation in 1984, where good Party members are not supposed to drink, have sex, or smoke, because that would interfere with adulation of Big Brother. The Mormons seem better at living up to their ideal, though. Ingsoc is consciously (or half-consciously, through the use of doublethink) hypocritical, after all.
I think the Hypocrisy was that the Party ENCOURAGED drinking and smoking by calling the alchohol and ciggaretts "Victory" brand. As for sex, good party members were REQUIRED to have sex, as a "duty to the party" as Winston's wife says. While this goes on, the image of perfect Party qualities remain unnatainable: Sober, Handsome, Athletic, Happy, Bassically Perfect. While the Party members look around themselves in horror at every moment that they arent striving to live up to impossible expectations in the midst of horrifying repression. Kinda reminds you of a society we all know and love no? Maybe just a little. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
The only part of Orincoro's post I will dignify is pointing out that I have never asked anybody to "stop with personal BS." To my knowledge, that is not a phrase I have ever used on this board. If someone wants to get personal, well, there's no sense in asking a rabid dog to behave.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I think the Hypocrisy was that the Party ENCOURAGED drinking and smoking by calling the alchohol and cigarettes "Victory" brand. As for sex, good party members were REQUIRED to have sex, as a "duty to the party" as Winston's wife says. While this goes on, the image of perfect Party qualities remain unnatainable: Sober, Handsome, Athletic, Happy, Basically Perfect. While the Party members look around themselves in horror at every moment that they aren't striving to live up to impossible expectations in the midst of horrifying repression. Kinda reminds you of a society we all know and love no? Maybe just a little.
No, no - vices were only encouraged among the proles; I did specify 'Party members'. Also, sex wasn't encouraged as such; children were encouraged. The Party was working on a means of eliminating the orgasm, so that sex would become a reflex as joyless as sneezing.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
To king, fair enough I suppose, I see it all as a game where the system did both corrupt and indoctrinate against corruption in order to destabilize society.
As for Icarus, I did paraphrase, here is the exact Quote:
" - posted December 06, 2005 06:00 AM Profile for Icarus
As for the blanket statement, it got your attention didn't it?
You frankly have no idea what I know and what I don't know, so quit with the personal BS and just rebut the point. If you can't make an argument without resorting to shouting and baseless personal comments, then your point of view isn't worth much. "
So in reality, since I wrote "personal BS" in quotes, I was correct, and you lied or were too lazy to look it up yourself. Did you really think I wouldn't do my homework though? Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Ummm, not to completely derail the thread here, but I remember that thread, Orincoro. And you saying this:
quote:This from a gentleman who seems to do nothing but comment on the quality of other individuals, but whom I specifically remember asking me to stop with "personal BS." I hate to disagree with you hear because Pelegius is SOOO tacky, but at least he doesn't pretend to some kind of virtue like you do. This is the most disgusted I have been with a Hatracker, and over a little thing like this. How dissapointing.
about Icarus is a little hypocritical. Your opening statement to him:
quote:Great blanket statement: "Universities are overfunded" GIVE ME A BREAK.
and this sentence:
quote: I would like to see all the "wasted money" you see being spent there in florida, somehow I doubt your a qualified observer, even if you are a public school teacher.
seemed to make him asking you to quit the personal BS quite appropriate. You started off nasty, and you didnt change your tone. And it would seem that you were the one who started off commenting on the "quality of others", or at least the ability of others to make personalized observations. It kind of sucks when someone calls us on our BS in a coherent way for the first time, doesnt it? Some of us learn and grow from it, allowing the experience to shape us into better, more coherent posters who dont rely on ad hominum personal attacks to get an already weak point across. And then, some of us dont.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: So in reality, since I wrote "personal BS" in quotes, I was correct, and you lied or were too lazy to look it up yourself. Did you really think I wouldn't do my homework though?
You're right. I lied.
I like your use of smilies, though. I appreciate how totally cool it clearly made you feel to find that. How many hours did that take you? I hope it didn't take too much time away from your many other important endeavors. (But I understand how truly important finding it must have been to you. And, for that matter, I'm flattered that your exchanges with me have meant so much to you that you have felt the need to remember them word for word. I feel nearly terrible that I have not found you as memorable. But cheer up: it's not you, it's me. Truly.)
-o-
And hey, what do you know. I once did ask somebody to "quit with the personal BS." Fascinating, because it sounds so unlike me. *shrug* Oh well. Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Foundling, like you and Icarus I have no qualms about calling anybody out on hypocrisy, only I am not being a hypocrite, I don't care if you DO want to start personal BS, but don't act like him (Icarus) and play the game where you point out how nice and civilized you are compared to other people.
It puts people in the envidious position of being completely unable to respond, for fear of doing exactly what he implies you are doing. How convenient for him.
Icky, I don't feel particularly embarassed about having an exceptionally detailed memory, or the ability to find the quote for you in a moment of looking. Are you one of those people who like to point out the qualities that set others apart or make them exceptional, and then treat them like its a fault because you can't be like them? Feel flattered if you like, your own interest in flaming me is proof of your narcissism, and your hypocrisy, since responding to my rather useless little point of fact is no less a waste of time than my having brought it up.
In nearly 10,000 posts, I wonder how much valuable time you've wasted, or how many people have pointed out your cloying, raging ego.
See? I have no problem getting nasty, but I do have a problem with liars like you who claim they aren't like that at all. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Orincoro made a personal remark. Icarus told him to stop, using the phrase "personal BS."
His statement about "but at least he doesn't pretend to some kind of virtue like you do" is inapplicable. First, Icarus's "jackass" post on this page doesn't claim that Icarus posseses any particular virtue.
Second, The offense Icarus accused Pelegius of committing (posting a new thread to accuse our host of sinning in a "gotcha"-like manner) was not the same as the offense he called Icarus on (responding to personal statements with the phrase "personal BS"). So the accusation of claiming personal virtue can't even be upheld by the implication that Icarus called Pel on something Icarus had done.
Icarus is a great guy and has proven it over and over again.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Yes dag, this thread has nothing to do with it, I am objecting more to what I see as a patter with Icky. That is, he likes to weedle people and get personal, then act like the other person is the aggressor. The other thread WAS different, but this one isn't, given what I have seen in other threads, acting like the big man is his MO and I don't like it. Thanks for the concern though, you really are the big man, no sarcasm.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Honestly Orincoro, I'd hang around a bit longer and read some more of Icarus's posts.
I have never seen such a pattern - indeed I would list Icarus as one of the less aggressive and more considerate posters on Hatrack.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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And I would agree with imogen. My experiences with Icky are that he's consistently kind and considerate.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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*joins the Icky love* I've never known Icarus to turn a debate into a personal-attack-fest, myself.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I also agree that Icky succeeds in being diplomatic in even difficult situations.
Our host has had so many unwarranted and unsubstantiated attacks on him that, if Icky chooses to defend Card with slightly less than kid gloves on, I certainly can't fault Icky.
I've never seen Icky take on a holier than thou attitude and I applaud the fact that he loves this place enough to step-up and defend it.
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